Ha, You're one to talk about "buzzwords" and name calling. So because I call out the white gay community on their hypocrisy you call me self-hating?
On our hypocrisy? More than anything, I see you as being the hypocritical one.
And the reason I see you as "self-hating" is because when you said this:
"If your goal is to get more people of color behind your cause, trying to get away with posting that crap in the above quote is a funny way of showing it. If it succeeds at anything, it will make more people not give a fuck what you're going through".
I'm very curious as to your choice of words in what "You're" going through. I thought it was what "We're going through". Are you not Gay?
I am a member of two Communites. I am Gay. And I am White. And you are a member of two Communities. You are presumably Gay, and you are Black.
Apparently though, you don't want to view Gays as one community. You give the impression by your post that you would rather distance yourself away from the "Gay Community" and instead would solely like to be a part of just the "Black Community".
I'm simply curious why you don't advocate what is in your best interests?
That being, ending discrimination on all fronts.
Furthermore, you don't know anything about how I was raised.
Which was why I asked you. Your reluctance to tell me anything raises some eyebrows.
It seems you're the one that's shoveling bullshit for desert.
It's "dessert". But as I get older, I seem to make more typos, too.
I never said that Gays and Blacks did not have similar struggles; I made a point of it in several of my previous posts, in fact.
Must have missed them. Because all I have seen you do is harp on what your ancestors went through and NOT what you are going through in the Present, which is the crux of my argument.
Your little diatribe about how I'm "no longer a slave" is very cliché and once again lacks sociological understanding of African-American issues.
Not only are you "no longer a slave" .... you "NEVER were a slave". And neither were your parents. So again, spare me.
Again, if you want to talk about discrimination amongst Blacks in the Workplace or hate crimes or anything else that relates to what you are experiencing in the year 2009, then let's talk about it.
I think the problem is that you have it drilled into your mindset that you have to keep playing this Ancestor card because you use it as a weapon. Of course the problem is that people like me call you on it, so then what happens? I am labeled a "racist", "KKK member", and other childish insults. None of which affect me at all, because I know it's not true.
I am concerned about what YOU, CK, is going through in your life in the year 2009. I am not concerned about what your Great-Grandfather or Great Grandmother went through back in the 1800's. I know that sounds harsh, but the reason I say that is because "you didn't live back then ... and neither did I." Furthermore, "there is nothing that can be done about things that were done back then." Therefore, the only things that can be focused on are the here and now.
Quite frankly, I think many Ancestors of Blacks would be upset to see any of their Great-Grandchildren even making comparisons between what they went through, and what Blacks are going through in this day and age. There absolutely is NO comparison.
Black people of today are still very affected by the legacy of slavery, racism and oppression reaped upon them by contemporary American society. Whether that by psychologically, socially or economically that painful past is still very much apart of our lives.
But, the part that you don't get is that you didn't live through any of that time period yourself. What people like you do is use this as a tool to play an unnecessary Victim card to attempt to create sympathy. That way, anything and everything that goes wrong in CK's life, we can chalk it up to Slavery and a period in time that you or your parents never even lived through, right?
This is an issue with you, because you make it an issue ... because your parents make it an issue ... because your peers make it an issue ... because your Community leaders make it an issue, and are actually making money off of continuing to make it an issue and stirring the pot.
The fact of the matter is CK, that you yourself do not live in the year 1865, and therefore you are not going to be treated like you do. You suffer from a uniquely different set of circumstances than what your Great Grandparents or Great Great Grandparents suffered through.
You suffer from discrimination in the work place, hate crimes, raised eyebrows in public, etc. And you know what? So do Gays? Your 2nd Community you are evidently reluctantly a part of. Except you know what? I can safely say that at least Blacks can get married, and at least a Black Man and a Black Woman can safely hold hands in public without being threatened because of their relationship. Can't say the same for Gays, though.
Also, last time I checked, at least Blacks can serve in the military. Can't say the same for Gays though, as they will be discharged once their sexuality is discovered.
Also, we live in the day and age where a Black man can be elected to the highest office in the land. And that is a great thing. Now, do you think the same could be said for a Gay Man, CK?
You can agree or disagree with that if you'd like, it makes no difference to me. No amount of arguing back and forth about it will make you understand that if you don't.
Well, the same could be said about you.
I am concerned about what is going on in communities in the here and now and what issues you face. I am not concerned about what occurred back in 1865, because I had no part of that, I condemn it ... but it was not my fault, was out of my control, and that time is long, long gone. There isn't anything that can be done to reverse that period of time from never occurring.
Here is where Whites get upset. And quite frankly, I appreciate JUB for allowing us to have these types of discussions, that every White and Black person would like to have with each other in public, but it just doesn't happen because of sensitivity to the topic at hand. But these are conversations that NEED to take place if we are going to learn from each other.
Whites today do not like having the slavery card dealt back to them, because they did not have a part in any of that. It is something they are ashamed of their ancestors for doing, but again, it was out of our control.
We don't like hearing the Slavery card brought up because it is insulting to our intelligence for any Black to make the comparison of their life to the time of Slavery, when in reality, Slavery has been abolished since 1865, Blacks can drink from the same water fountain these days, Blacks can sit where they want on the bus, Blacks can be elected to the highest office in the land, Blacks can be politicians, Blacks do hold very high-paying White Collar jobs in a variety of fields including Politics.
So the more you keep bringing up a time of period that we weren't responsible for and condemn ..... and the more you keep bringing up a time of period that you or even your parents never even lived through, but try to act like you have ...... and the more you keep comparing your life in the year 2009 to that of a slave ancestor when there absolutely is no comparison and truth be told, your ancestors would probably resent the comparison ...... then the further that rift is going to between the Black and White communities.
Now, if you want to talk about Income Equality, Discrimination in Employment and Affirmative Action, Education, and various other topics ... I am all for that. Because these are problems faced in the year 2009 and things that we can address in our present life. I simply think you would make a lot more headway with Whites if you would leave the "What happened before 1865" talking points at home, and instead you would talk about the real issues that you face in your community in the year 2009 ... in the here and now.
Except for that drivel about gays suffering in Hollywood. While I'm sure there are quite a few celebrities in the closet, being gay in Hollywood does not mean the end of your career. Being gay has sparked the careers of many famous celebrities we know and love today.
And what about being Black? Are you going to tell me that being Black hasn't sparked any careers in the Movie or Entertainment industry? Or the Sports Industry, where the overwhelming number of athletes in Football and Basketball are Black?
You're looking for arguments where there are none; I know gays and blacks are discriminated against in society, which makes the fact that Black gay men, such as myself, are discriminated against inside the gay community more insulting.
Nobody is discriminating against you in the Gay Community. And I think this mentality is as the result of behavioral conditioning from various aspects in society (parenting, peer groups, media, etc) that whenever anyone makes a comment about a Community, they are being "Racist". That isn't the case.
Like I said, if you have problems with the White Community about various issues, you would probably find me agreeing with you on any number of gripes you have, in which I would even blast my Community for. The fact of the matter is that I am part of the Community I am a part of, however if someone makes a characteristic of my Community, I am not going to take offense to every, single comment that is made. What I am more likely to say is "Yeah, that's a problem in the White Community" or something along those lines. I am not going to take personal offense to anything you say against the White Community, unless you are directly insulting me, personally.
And I challenge you to make up any White stereotypical comment and throw it out there for all to see. And as long as you aren't insulting me personally, I bet you any amount of money that you aren't going to see me huff and puff about it. I'm serious. Make up any stereotypical White statement you want to make up and toss it out there. Watch how I respond to it.
What I want you to do is decide when are you going to get your head out of your ass and stop pretending to be so god damn self righteous.
I don't view it as me being "self-righteous" as much as me standing up for what I believe in. It doesn't mean I am right all the time. I just call things the way I see it and perceive it. Again, that doesn't mean I am always right.
Why don't you stop the "I suffer just like you do!" bullshit and start accepting the reality?
Reality?
Just like you stopping the "I suffer exactly like my ancestors did" argument?
Is that the reality you are talking about?
As a person of African-Pananian descent, you don't know shit about "Hispanics" either.
I will admit that I definitely not am familiar with Hispanics as well as I should. However, I did address their participation in Proposition 8, and noted that according to various polls conducted after the vote, the percentages of Blacks and Hispanics who voted "Yes on 8" were very close to one another.
As a matter of fact, I examined one poll that had Hispanics voting "YES" even greater than that of Blacks.
Like I said, it doesn't matter who or what color, or what age the person was. Any community who voted OVER the 50% mark was going to be identified so we as the Gay Community can address the groups of people who we have the most opportunity with. That is critical in understanding who is most opposing you in order to address getting any given agenda passed.
You do not know what it's like to be a Black male and you sure as hell don't know what it's like to be gay black male.
No, I don't know what it is like to be Black in the year 2009. I simply have enough common sense to know that being Black in the year 2009 is a Hell of a lot easier than being Black before the year 1865, or even being Black in 1955.
According to the numbers I've seen, Homophobia seems more prevalent in the Black and Hispanic Communities than that of Asians and Whites. So yes, you have my sympathy for that. At the same time, that tells me that within one of your two communities, there are attitudes towards this that we need to find a way to work together to address, to make life easier on you.
The "right" thing for White gays to do would be to fully accept all races equally while they bitch and moan about their own rights, but that remains to be done.
The problem that I see many Blacks doing is taking the point of view "I am Black, before I am Gay."
And that is exactly what I got out of that statement. Instead of saying "I am Black AND I am Gay, equally." And again, you wonder why there are allegations of Self-Hatred being made.
I would have hoped if you have any desire to make life easier on yourself, you would actually join us as part of the Gay Community, as opposed to dividing yourself up as saying "there are White Gays, and there are Black Gays". Since we all stand for the same thing on the issue of Marriage ... at least I think we do.
You are taking the Political Correctness with the polling and comments being made by posters waaaaaay too personally. Like I have stated many times on this forum, if you support Gay Rights and you happen to be Black, then YOU personally aren't having the finger-pointed at you. I don't seem to grasp why you are.
You're the one who started talking about stuff in 1865, so don't try to pretend it's me who went off topic.
As it pertains to this particular thread, that's fair. Although, my position stands.
And I am saying how ridiculous it is for you to talk about the attitudes of Blacks and Hispanics and never about the ridiculous double standards of gays.
And there you go, yet again. Acting like you aren't a part of "Our Community", the one you are a part of.
They want all Black people to feel a common bond and fight for them, yet gay Black men still have a hard time being accepted in the gay community.
Of course you do. Now, after Prop 8, we've discovered that the degree of homophobia in the Black Community was on par with Hispanics, and is causing a setback for Gay Rights in even one of the most progressive states in the country. What you need to do is detach yourself from the label of the "Black Community" and tell yourself "You know what? A lot of Blacks are bigoted, but I am not a part of that particular Group. I'm trying to do the right thing and change the stereotype that has been given to my Community as a whole, as a result of them voting greater than 50% in favor of banning Gay Marriage.
You are not lumped in with the same people who are being focused on. You aren't. And you have to learn to not take things so personally, as I've emphasized several times.
Yet another pitiful attempt to call names. I don't have any problems with my sexuality, never have, never will.
Yep. You've done a miraculous job of making that clear in your post.
I'm apart of the gay community, sure, but it doesn't stop me from criticizing when it's appropriate.
Nope. And that is fair. I just wonder if it stops you from criticizing the other members of the Racial community you are simply a part of, but not your Orientation community.
You don't know nor would understand what I've gone through in my life as a child growing up in Mississippi. They could fill a book; but that's not the point of this thread.
I've been trying to understand it, personally. However, you haven't given me any insight whatsoever into your life. You telling me that you were from Mississippi was the first hint you've given.
I truly do want to understand what it is like being Black, but at the same time, all I am asking is not to have my intelligence insulted. I know that hate crimes still exist. I know that discrimination still exists.
But I also know that slavery does not exist. And I know that Gays can not get married in this country, although Blacks can.
I also know that Black couples receive the same degree of company benefits that White couples, and Hispanic couples (that are legal), and Asian couples do.
I also know that Blacks can serve in the Military and not be discharged simply for being Black.
I also know that there are many places in the workforce where it is easier to be Black, then it is to be Gay across the country.
You wanted to know why Blacks wouldn't support gays, I gave you an honest answer.
And I appreciate your perspective. It just makes it harder when Black Gays opt in this struggle to align with and support the very same people that are discriminating against them in the first place ... when the entire Gay community as a whole, would like to see that come to an end and make your own life a little easier.
It's easier being Black in this day and age compared to what it used to be during Slavery and before the Black Civil Rights Era. We'd simply like to make it a little easier to be Gay in this country for all Gay people, regardless of color, as well.
But if you are implying I am the guy getting beat up then Hell Naw! 
That is absolutely incorrect I look way better than him and he is stupid as hell to just stand there......
This has to be, by far, the most ignorant, disconnected post in this entire fucking fail of a thread.
