why don't all blacks support gays?

[MystikWizard]

I'm just happy to see people like Apollo that blame the "Gay Community" for not "reaching out to him" ... yet when it comes time for him to do his part, he is nowhere to be found.

This "reaching out" is a 2-way street, and thus far he has not demonstrated that he had any interest in making any effort to reach out, himself.

So, if one doesn't want to write Congressmen, or challenge Church leaders, or go door to door ... etc .... it seems to me like the easiest thing one can do would be to simply talk with friends, peers, and families. Pretty much what I advocated as the solution, from the get-go. The only thing though, is that this much transpire in large numbers amongst Black Gays.

 

[Apollo]

And you won't get any new votes.

Simple. Concise. To the point.

Call the religious right what you want. One thing they do really well is going out of their comfort zone and talking to people. They aren't afraid to get their nails dirty when they feel something shouldn't pass.

If only the gay community did that. Prop 8 wouldn't have passed. But it did. And what did gay people do? Talk to friends, family, and peers.

I wonder, how did the gay groups spend their money to fight prop 8? We know what the mormons did, and they seemed to know how to use their money better. Maybe we should get them to teach the gay groups classes maybe?

 

[dieselstar311]

There are people from all races who DONT SUPPORT GAYS! This thread is foolish.

 

[MystikWizard]

And you won't get any new votes.

Simple. Concise. To the point.

Call the religious right what you want. One thing they do really well is going out of their comfort zone and talking to people. They aren't afraid to get their nails dirty when they feel something shouldn't pass.

If only the gay community did that. Prop 8 wouldn't have passed. But it did. And what did gay people do? Talk to friends, family, and peers.

I wonder, how did the gay groups spend their money to fight prop 8? We know what the mormons did, and they seemed to know how to use their money better. Maybe we should get them to teach the gay groups classes maybe?

Yep. Perhaps we need more people like you that "claim" they will "write Congressmen" to pitch in and do their part.

The problem is that you have been nailed as a liar and a hypocrite.

And the conclusion I have come to is that too many Blacks (and Hispanics) are apathetic to the cause ... and too afraid to come out, make any statements in their "community", or talk to their preachers about it for fear of rejection. And the Church is the biggest factor in the equation.

Whites and Asians go to Churches too, but were somehow able to do something that Blacks and Hispanics were not able to do, for some reason. And we had no "Gay Community" come knocking down Church doors or going door to door. Nor did we have any Gay Community "reach out" to us.

You know what people like you need to do? You need to quit taking the criticism like a slap in the face and like I am criticizing you, personally. Well, I was criticizing you about your dubious "wrote my Congressman yesterday" claim, but other than that, the base of my analyzing isn't directed at you personally.

If you want to analyze Whites as a group, I certainly am not going to get offended and take any criticisms you have personally. And that's because I know that all Whites are different from one another and that I may not demonstrate the same characteristics as other Whites. I only wish that people like you could do the same.

 

[Apollo]

Yep. Perhaps we need more people like you that "claim" they will "write Congressmen" to pitch in and do their part.

The problem is that you have been nailed as a liar and a hypocrite.

And the conclusion I have come to is that too many Blacks (and Hispanics) are apathetic to the cause ... and too afraid to come out, make any statements in their "community", or talk to their preachers about it for fear of rejection. And the Church is the biggest factor in the equation.

Whites and Asians go to Churches too, but were somehow able to do something that Blacks and Hispanics were not able to do, for some reason. And we had no "Gay Community" come knocking down Church doors or going door to door. Nor did we have any Gay Community "reach out" to us.

You know what people like you need to do? You need to quit taking the criticism like a slap in the face and like I am criticizing you, personally. Well, I was criticizing you about your dubious "wrote my Congressman yesterday" claim, but other than that, the base of my analyzing isn't directed at you personally.

If you want to analyze Whites as a group, I certainly am not going to get offended and take any criticisms you have personally. And that's because I know that all Whites are different from one another and that I may not demonstrate the same characteristics as other Whites. I only wish that people like you could do the same.

How am I a liar and a hypocrite? Because I wont share my emails? Ooook.

I told you you could skip over the church if you wanted. I said it twice actually, maybe 3 times.

Whites go to church and can and a lot are as conservative as blacks CAN be. I mean, who runs the republican party? A bunch of old religious white people. You'd be hard pressed to find a white republican.

Asians...a lot of them arent christian, they have traditions and values different from western societies. And beliefs and religion that are different.

Probably why prop 8 passed. The gay organizations didn't reach out to people. Oh wait...they did, they tried to get people to go out and vote, tried talking to gay people. They just didn't reach out enough.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

I don't think your criticizing me. I think your lumping people into clean, easy to use groups that don't make any sense. You need to diversify people more, something your not doing, which I think is confusing you on issues. Probably why you keep asking the same questions over and over and over...

A community isn't group think like you seem to think it is.

I dont care to anazlyze white people. My days don't revolve around all this bullshit.

 

[Apollo]

Apparently it does - you both said you were done about... 14 posts ago...

But please, don't stop on account of me...

lol yeah it is kinda sad. I just can't let people say stuff and not respond. It's a bad trait of mine.

Well, on the internet at least. In real life I would have just walked away.

I like how your reading all of it though. I hope we are giving you some good entertainment.

 

[MystikWizard]

"Because you don't share emails ...". That's pretty funny. If you had an email to produce, you would be showing it off to the Forum to shut me up. Instead, you decided to lie. In essence your motto is "do what I say, not as I do". Again, that tells us the type of character you are. You have yourself and only yourself to blame for making up that lie to begin with.

Pro 8 passed, but not because of not "reaching out to" reasons. It passed because of Religion and Bigotry. And like I said, it has more to do with Religion being factors in both the Black and Hispanic communities.

There is simply a cultural lag in those 2 Communities as it pertains to religion, that simply isn't present amongst Whites and Asians. Too many Blacks and Hispanics allow the Church to control the direction of the entire Community.

I don't blame people for not reaching out to Churches. As has been beaten into the ground, that is not going to accomplish a damn thing. Things like homosexuality threatens the very existence of the Church. Furthermore, as has been demonstrated, if Whites and Asians could get their percentages both under the 50% mark without Gays storming Church buildings or going door to door ... then why can't Blacks and Hispanics?

Too many excuses.

Also, did you take a survey of Whites yet and ask them how many people from the Gay Community "reached out to them"?

Also, since you don't know who your Black Gay Leaders are, what do you plan on doing about that, since "reaching out" is the answer? Why don't you reach out to them and help build the Community?

 

[Apollo]

I actually did read all of it.

The problem is, that it's a bunch of empty, empty words.

The length of the posts made me miss BGP's post three times already.

I've laughed alot, but my eyes hurt.

Yeah they are empty words, on both sides.

But that is the way of JUB right. I didn't get to read BGP's post either. I really wished this thread had stayed dead.

I never like to resurrect old threads unless I have some relevant new information. These types of threads should always remain dead, new relevant information never belongs in a long bitchfest thread.

 

[Apollo]

"Because you don't share emails ...". That's pretty funny. If you had an email to produce, you would be showing it off to the Forum to shut me up. Instead, you decided to lie. In essence your motto is "do what I say, not as I do". Again, that tells us the type of character you are. You have yourself and only yourself to blame for making up that lie to begin with.

Pro 8 passed, but not because of not "reaching out to" reasons. It passed because of Religion and Bigotry. And like I said, it has more to do with Religion being factors in both the Black and Hispanic communities.

There is simply a cultural lag in those 2 Communities as it pertains to religion, that simply isn't present amongst Whites and Asians. Too many Blacks and Hispanics allow the Church to control the direction of the entire Community.

I don't blame people for not reaching out to Churches. As has been beaten into the ground, that is not going to accomplish a damn thing. Things like homosexuality threatens the very existence of the Church. Furthermore, as has been demonstrated, if Whites and Asians could get their percentages both under the 50% mark without Gays storming Church buildings or going door to door ... then why can't Blacks and Hispanics?

Too many excuses.

Also, did you take a survey of Whites yet and ask them how many people from the Gay Community "reached out to them"?

Also, since you don't know who your Black Gay Leaders are, what do you plan on doing about that, since "reaching out" is the answer? Why don't you reach out to them and help build the Community?

I am actually done now. Master of Splatter put it all in perspective for me.

Here, i'll just give it to you. YOU WIN!

What you just said in that post, you have all said before, and it is wrong.

And you can't lump asian and white cultures together. Asians have a stronger community sense of community and togetherness than black people.

That is all.

 

[MystikWizard]

I am actually done now. Master of Splatter put it all in perspective for me.

Here, i'll just give it to you. YOU WIN!

What you just said in that post, you have all said before, and it is wrong.

And you can't lump asian and white cultures together. Asians have a stronger community sense of community and togetherness than black people.

That is all.

No, I am not accepting you "giving me the victory". There was no real victory on either side, and unfortunately nothing was really settled. We just have two completely different viewpoints on the situation.

I feel as though I am a realist. And to get people going out to Churches and Communities, and the like, it just isn't realistic. So many Gays of all Races aren't even out to begin with. We know that we're all out there, but how many of us are truly "Out"? Especially "Out" enough to go out to Churches and go knocking on doors in neighborhoods?

Education is extremely important and I would actually rank it as the #1 thing that could be done to improve views on homosexuality across the board. And this is something I wish would be taught in the public school system from Middle School on up.

I simply wish more people would have participated in the thread. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to do so, even though we may not agree.

 

[Apollo]

No, I am not accepting you "giving me the victory". There was no real victory on either side, and unfortunately nothing was really settled. We just have two completely different viewpoints on the situation.

I feel as though I am a realist. And to get people going out to Churches and Communities, and the like, it just isn't realistic. So many Gays of all Races aren't even out to begin with. We know that we're all out there, but how many of us are truly "Out"? Especially "Out" enough to go out to Churches and go knocking on doors in neighborhoods?

Education is extremely important and I would actually rank it as the #1 thing that could be done to improve views on homosexuality across the board. And this is something I wish would be taught in the public school system from Middle School on up.

I simply wish more people would have participated in the thread. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to do so, even though we may not agree.

then you thinking that we're going to get extra support is unrealistic. You are just scared to go talk to random people and try and educate them.

Something the religious right isn't afraid to do. They went out and talked to people who weren't planning on voting at all on prop 8. They convinced them to go out and vote, and to vote for prop 8.

 

[MystikWizard]

You are completely full of it. Seriously, blow it out your ear. You big phony, you. Don't paint everyone else as being less intelligent, simply because your own intellect is questionable. Furthermore, the next time you get the urge to allege and/or condescend that others are "less intelligent," you may want to not write in all lower case, and use paragraphs.

Do you have any statistics that refutes anything he said?

Hence my point earlier. If we all practiced Individualism, we wouldn't take offense to every little thing under the sun and take these "community-based" descriptions quite as personally.

Go ahead and come up with some negative depictions of White people, in general, as a Race. See if I get offended.

 

[Apollo]

Do you have any statistics that refutes anything he said?

Hence my point earlier. If we all practiced Individualism, we wouldn't take offense to every little thing under the sun and take these "community-based" descriptions quite as personally.

Go ahead and come up with some negative depictions of White people, in general, as a Race. See if I get offended.

He just insulted the black race.

If I started calling all white people racist nazi's with less intelligence than a fly. I would expect white people to get mad.

 

[MystikWizard]

He just insulted the black race.

If I started calling all white people racist nazi's with less intelligence than a fly. I would expect white people to get mad.

I didn't see where he called "ALL Black people ....". He stated that "on Average, Blacks .... "

And he based that on statistical data, including the dropout rate, which he supported in his last post.

Now, I said earlier and I will say it again. If you want to classify the White Race and classify them on an "On Average" basis, No I am not going to take offense to it. Because I know that whatever is being said, may not necessarily apply to me, but may apply to a majority of other Whites.

If you want to say "Most whites are racist, on average" .... again, I am not going to take offense to it. Because it doesn't apply to me.

We need to remove the color of our skin when having these conversations and participating in forum discussions. When you are here, you should be Colorless. That way, we can examine these topics objectively.

 

[Apollo]

nothing i said even implied that i was describing the entire black race. and the truth can never be insulting. comparing my statement that, "blacks are less educated than other races in the U.S." and your statement that, "white people are racist nazi's with less intelligence than a fly" is ludicrous. in my experience most black people will believe anything that their pastors say. if you feel differently, then express your viewpoint. don't imply that i'm a racist, because it couldn't be further from the truth.

I personally didn't find it insulting. I will admit, and it has been shown that black people do get a less quality education than most. I don't think you're racist at all.

I was explaining why someone could get offended by what you said, and why lack of individualism wouldn't explain why Doyen attacked you.

I have expressed my viewpoint enough in this thread. Just read this entire page. You get more than enough of my viewpoint.

And in my experience, the black people I know aren't so zombied to their pastors. I know some who are pretty religious, but are fine with me being gay. But I tend to stay away from homophobes as it is.

 

[Apollo]

I didn't see where he called "ALL Black people ....". He stated that "on Average, Blacks .... "

And he based that on statistical data, including the dropout rate, which he supported in his last post.

Let me rephrase. If I said "on average, white people are nazi's who are less intelligent than the average fly" I would expect some white people to get mad.

Far from what he said yes, but still applies.

He never supported his statement though. He never linked to any statistics or anything from what I am looking at.

I WISH I COULD QUIT YOU!

 

[MystikWizard]

Nope. And right now I'm not the slightest bit interested in digging up statistics to refute an obviously ignorant generalization posted by some clown in cyber space.

No, of course not. You don't like dealing with facts and concrete data, do you? Generalizations will always be out there. It simply depends if you allow that generalization to apply to you or not. Obviously, you did.

Blah-Blah-Blah. Set it to music, so I can turn it off. Your racial neurosis, and that endless paranoid rants/dissertations they inspire are beyond the point of being tiresome now.

So, don't reply then. Set me to ignore. Blacks and Whites, in my view, need to have these discussions. Obviously, avoiding each other in public and keeping our comments to ourselves hasn't accomplished a damn thing, thus far. Maybe if we learn about each other's thought process, that might be a big plus in understanding each other better.

Stop assuming that everyone thinks like you, in hopes that you can cut them off at the pass. I'm not a bigot, therefore I have no desire to come up with negative depictions of White people, in general

.

My point was to demonstrate that people have to stop taking offense to generalizations. If you practiced individualism, and you didn't see yourself as a person of color, then you wouldn't take offense to any discussion revolving around race.

You want to talk about how "Whites are all bigots ... and all go to the country-club, and all that stuff" .... go ahead. I'm not taking offense to any of it. Whites do things I don't necessarily agree with, either. But, Whites are so diverse in their likes, attitudes, and interests that I think it's harder to pin generalizations on them.

 

[MisterMajestic]

all i stated was the statistical fact that blacks are less educated than any other race in the U.S. if you don't believe me, check out the high school drop out rates. and in case you haven't noticed, this is a blog and standard writing practices (i.e. not writing in all lower case letters, not using paragraphs) aren't necessary.

And according to statistics more White Teens commit Suicide than any other Race...So we Have Black teens dropping out of High School at alarming rates and White teens killing themselves at alarming rates..

What is the Solution? I guess we need to FOCUS on our children and stop worrying about Gay people wanting to walk down the isle...Now we're getting somewhere..


Black people don't owe Gay Whites and Gay Blacks SHIT. Blacks don't have a history of Oppressing a race of people...It is NOT Black Americans Fault that the Majority of White people REFUSE to acknowledge the Gay communities civil rights...

In one breath most of you are saying Blacks have so many problems and in another breath you 're wanting to know why Blacks don't support Gay issues....This is all too comical......LOL...Folks i will say this...Blacks did not free themselves from slavery a White man Did...White Gays will have to Face their own race of people Neck to Neck and Battle it out...White Women had to go through the same shit...Now it's the Gays turn...


I don't know what else to say about White Gay Men and their "movement" for Civil Rights other than "Man Up" and look your White Brothers in the face and throw one Helluva Fucking Punch....

 

[KaraBulut]

Just a reminder to everyone about personal attacks and flaming...

There are some topics that we know will be controversial and will generate heated discussion. But the discussion should stay on topic. And the discussion should never deteriorate into personal attacks.