Why I stopped being a Right-Winger...

[Kulindahr]

The point isn't that both sides do it so much as it is about Fumento's castigating one side over the other for doing it. Is there a certain legitimate amount of concern about the loss of our freedoms being expressed? Yes, the president has a list of people he wants to kill without benefit of any due process whatsoever. He's ordered an American citizen murdered and won't even discuss the process by which such a decision is made. He's signed a bill allowing indeterminate incarceration of American citizens anywhere in the world he sees fit without benefit of their Constitutionally guaranteed due process. Yes, this ability has existed previously. Our collective failure to complain about something of which many of us where unaware does not preclude us from doing so once we become aware of it.

Outrage is completely justified when you screw with our freedoms. Of course Fumento no longer lives in the US, so that really isn't his concern, is it?

What does any of this have to do with the article?

 

[Kulindahr]

All this "the left does it too!" is irrelevant to the topic, which is about how the Republican Party has changed, and is no longer conservative. There's actually little to dispute on that point; a party that wouldn't welcome Eisenhower or Reagan has changed drastically. The root of that change is simple enough to stop: the rise to power of the screaming pseudo-Christian 'evangelicals', who are so accurately labeled "elephangelicals" and even "talibangelicals".

So how about getting on the topic, and discuss the article and its theme?

 

[chance1]

^ LOL

Hard to follow up on such lunacy

 

[jackoroe]

What does any of this have to do with the article?

Fumento derided those who are outraged that Obama signed a law enabling him to incarcerate at will anybody and hold them incommunicado for an indeterminate period of time. His defense this atrocity is that it's been signed into law some 19 times previously. Who gives a rat's ass how many times before it's been signed? Decent people can and should be outraged that such laws get passed by Congress and signed into law.

 

[Jack Springer]

They both belong in jail. Sarah Palin with her famous 'crosshairs' ad that got Rep. Giffords nearly killed and Ann Romney $990 'hard work' blouse and a 'couple of Cadillacs' she bought herself with her husbands 'smash and grab captialism' money.

Excuse me if you think these are personal attacks, but they are just examples of the right wing extremism in this country.

View attachment 826246

They said if something is repeated often enough people will believe it true.

Just want to be on the correct, accurate side of history. Sarah Palin had NOTHING to do the shooting of Rep. Giffords, the man was crazy and had no political agenda.

Please stop trying to rewrite history.



On the Ann Romney image -- you could ask the Michelle Obama the same questions.

 

[Ben1]

As an european and friend of the US I see concentrated hate in your politics. GOP and Democrats should not be enemies, they have to be political opponent. Both parties love America and both want the best for your country.
I think since the elections Bush vs. Gore there is this problem. The biggest problem is the Tea Party, today. They are extreme, close-minded, full of hate (against Obama: Obamacare - "Obama wasn ´t born in the US" - Obama is a fascist and so on) and unwordly. This is not the Amercian way of life. The europeans love this philosophy of life and the USA was an ideal and a model of freedom. Now we see this Tea-Party and hate and we shake our head`s about that.
AND it is not only a problem for you - your problems are ours, too. We need a leader, open-minded and forward-looking. The Tea Party is the past. It`s medival. The modern world needs answers for the future and not cultural backwater.
BUT - the problem is a problem of the GOP. The moderates have no power to stopp them. I am a fan of Obama, Clinton and Biden BUT I respect men like McCain, Orrin Hatch, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, President Gerald Ford... but where are gentlemen like them in the GOP today? They have buffoon s like Gingrich, Santorum and Palin. OMG!

 

[Kulindahr]

Fumento derided those who are outraged that Obama signed a law enabling him to incarcerate at will anybody and hold them incommunicado for an indeterminate period of time. His defense this atrocity is that it's been signed into law some 19 times previously. Who gives a rat's ass how many times before it's been signed? Decent people can and should be outraged that such laws get passed by Congress and signed into law.

First, there's no discussion in the article of indeterminate incarceration. Second, you're confusing two different laws.

 

[Kulindahr]

As an european and friend of the US I see concentrated hate in your politics. GOP and Democrats should not be enemies, they have to be political opponent. Both parties love America and both want the best for your country.
I think since the elections Bush vs. Gore there is this problem. The biggest problem is the Tea Party, today. They are extreme, close-minded, full of hate (against Obama: Obamacare - "Obama wasn ´t born in the US" - Obama is a fascist and so on) and unwordly. This is not the Amercian way of life. The europeans love this philosophy of life and the USA was an ideal and a model of freedom. Now we see this Tea-Party and hate and we shake our head`s about that.
AND it is not only a problem for you - your problems are ours, too. We need a leader, open-minded and forward-looking. The Tea Party is the past. It`s medival. The modern world needs answers for the future and not cultural backwater.
BUT - the problem is a problem of the GOP. The moderates have no power to stopp them. I am a fan of Obama, Clinton and Biden BUT I respect men like McCain, Orrin Hatch, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, President Gerald Ford... but where are gentlemen like them in the GOP today? They have buffoon s like Gingrich, Santorum and Palin. OMG!

McCain is one of the biggest blocks to getting anything done that there is. I documented back during the election how he doesn't believe in free speech, freedom of religion, or most of the rest of the Bill of Rights. And he loves the faux-filibuster, using it often to block things he doesn't like.

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ because it's just so "funny"

it's "clever"

mocking your opponent/enemy means you're better than them

they as individuals, not just their ideas are worthy of scorn

Is that your perspective/perception of those who post here on JUB?

my sense is with cable tv access 24/7 and the internet, somehow the personal destruction is less personal - it's like texting something - much easier and somehow less responsibility is given to it

Like posting comments in a discussion forum.

i completely agree

george will
charles krauthammer
william kristol
etc.

they hammer at obama's decisions, etc. - not his person

conservative talking heads are much more civilized in their discourse - which of course is not the same as being right

So just to clarify your position if you will, the only "true conservatives" are:

george will
charles krauthammer
william kristol
etc.

Michael Fumento, though not as well known as those who's names that you listed, has the same "conservative" credentials as those you mentioned.

The difference being Mr. Fumento broke ranks with what passes for "conservative" for the very reason that you seem loath to acknowledge.

From the article (printed word for word from Salon.com).

I was always way ahead of the curve. And my exposés primarily appeared in right-wing publications. Back when they were interested in serious research. I also founded a conservative college newspaper, held positions in the Reagan administration and at several conservative think tanks, and published five books that conservatives applauded. I’ve written for umpteen major conservative publications – National Review, the Weekly Standard, the Wall Street Journal and Forbes, among them.

Those are the author's credentials in his own words.

I personally respect the likes of George Will, not only because he has a complete and absolute hard on for everything Baseball, and everything American that goes with the sport, he's not a hysterical ideologue.

His criticisms have merit and measure in my view. Even more so than William F. Buckley, because he's never been pretentious our outrageous in his views.

But if George Will came out as soundly against the "New Right" as Michael Fumento did, and for the same reasons you can bet your tight sweet ass that the "New Right" would be tossing him under the bus with just as much vigor.

Since we're all about sharing here, I honestly feel that most Americans don't really give two wits about either of the two political extremes in our country.

In the news recently a couple of Democratic State Governors came out against President Obama using Bain Capital as a cudgel against Mitt Romney.

And interestingly enough many more Democrats and "Liberals" agreed with their pronouncements; there is so much more to call Romney and his proposed policies on than his past business partnerships.

But the "New Right" saw that as a weakness amongst the Democratic rank and file, and did their level best to capitalize on it.

That's politics.

What's vile and disgusting amongst the FOX NEWS Crowd, the Talk Radio bunch, and the so called "conservative" columnists like Mark Davis (as a local example), is that they speak in that "homespun charm" that promotes what use to be considered an American strength or commodity; diversity of opinion, strong work ethic, standing up for American principles and ideals, and turning those same values and principles into a "weakness."

It's all about you and "our" shared values, this is why you listen and trust me.

While doing their level best in trying to convince at least half of the electorate that they're right and anyone who doesn't agree with them as being "Anti-American, Socialists, Godless-Sodomites, Muslims, Whores, Sluts, Prostitutes, weak on defense, tax and spend libruls, etc.," for nothing more than power, influence, and self gain.

The Liberal establishment in this country (IMO) honestly doesn't have a clue.

And it seems that everyone knows that except the Liberals.

Why can't "conservatives" just capitalize on that truth?

But wait they already are, and to help drive the point home in one of many examples a few years back a North Carolina Representative yelled out and called President of the United States in the Senate Chamber a LIAR (you lie was probable the exact quote) while the President is giving a State of the Union Address.

A Congressman from Florida can claim that "78 to 81 Democrats are Communists:

McCarthy’s infamous list comprised only 57 Communists who were merely State Department employees, not “78 to 81” of the nation’s top elected officials.

Pity the poor Onion; there’s nothing left to satirize.

But yet the Republican Representative from Florida comments went unchallenged.

Just like those Democratic Governors who recently called President Obama out, where's the leadership within the Republican Party, the Right Wing, or the GOP as a whole when it comes to calling out their rabid say anything to get attention supporters and media boosters?

I'll give you a clue! It's not the responsibility of the talking heads of MSNBC to call them out on it.

The "New Right" should show some ethics and integrity of their own (if they truly have any), and strap on a pair to publicly reign in those who truly DO NOT show through their actions and words the true values of what it means to be an American.

I'm just saying.

 

[chance1]

^ that's a really long post

after 2 paragraphs the impact wains

will have to digest later as I am headed to the movies - new Bill Murray movie/indie film - can't recall the name - my date picked it

but I have to say you're really on this anti-conservative kick and I think it's a bit much and wildly inaccurate

and this Fumento character ......... NEVER HEARD OF HIM

more to follow

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ that's a really long post

after 2 paragraphs the impact wains

will have to digest later as I am headed to the movies - new Bill Murray movie/indie film - can't recall the name - my date picked it

but I have to say you're really on this anti-conservative kick and I think it's a bit much and wildly inaccurate

DVR'd The Hatfields and McCoy's on the History Channel. (It was filmed in Romania).

Watching it with my folks these past couple of nights.

McCoy's being shown as being "God Fearing" but "petty."

Wonder how their heirs feel about that representation.

But on the other side Kevin Costner (a producer of that show) has demonstrated the Hatfields as being "just and right" in their defense.

Personally? It's historical fiction dressed up to appeal to emotions, and the perception that there's either "good or bad" and that we should always stand "with the right and the just."

Enjoy your Movie.

and this Fumento character ......... NEVER HEARD OF HIM

more to follow

Substance over banter wins my heart everytime.

 

[palbert]

- new Bill Murray movie/indie film - can't recall the name - my date picked it

Can see i'm watching the wrong movies.

 

[Kulindahr]

@Benvolio:

You may be too young to know or remember this, but very many of us liberals in this forum were former Reagan Conservatives, including myself. I got laughed at publicly for being the only one in Economics class who supported him in 1978.

But the Republican Party has drifted so far to the right that I don't recognize it. Sometimes I feel like I'm dreaming the whole thing - that's how surreal it seems.

To give you just one example of the insanity, think of the Birther controversy. Providing his (long-form)birth certificate isn't enough; now they say it's a forgery. When will this nuttiness ever stop?

And you wonder why we left the party....

Ditto. I was a "supporting member of the Republican National Committee" and contributed regularly.

Now I'd be considered a leftist -- but if anything I've gotten closer to the great conservative icon Barry Goldwater. The Republican party of today doesn't support religious freedom, or several other pieces of the Bill of Rights, and loves massive government intrusion into private lives. It's become indisputably more fascist, and quite a few of us aren't interested in supporting a more polished version of what our fathers or grandfathers went to Europe to fight.

 

[Kulindahr]

but I have to say you're really on this anti-conservative kick and I think it's a bit much and wildly inaccurate

By standing with Fumento, he's on a PRO-CONSERVATIVE kick. And Fumento is dead on almost across the board, fighting for conservatism.

and this Fumento character ......... NEVER HEARD OF HIM

So?

Oh -- yeah, that's the "Chance1 way"... only people whose names are well known count.

Try measuring an argument on its merits -- it's a refreshing approach.

 

[Centexfarmer]

By standing with Fumento, he's on a PRO-CONSERVATIVE kick. And Fumento is dead on almost across the board, fighting for conservatism.

Thank you kind Sir.

I admire and respect a reasoned debate.

I admire and respect accountability, and personal responsibility.

I don't see the "left" or "libruls" having to counter anything more than accusations, lies, and distortions of the truth.

And I don't honestly have much patients for those who wish to counter that "liberals" are just as bad as "conservatives" when it comes to "name calling."

In fact I'd counter that liberals are worse than conservatives in countering their lies, and conservatives ability to turn strengths within their opposition into weaknesses.

Liberals IMO always seem to bring a knife to a gun fight in that regard.

But seeing as how all "libruls" are so against the Second Amendment that only stands to reason.

 

[Benvolio]

I just love it when liberals tell us what Conservatives are supposed to be like. And it is nonsense. Goldwater and Reagan where hated and reviled by the liberals then as Conservatives are now. What you are missing is the Conservatives are basically attempting to preserve the traditional America that made us the greatest country in history; democracy, a common belief in free enterprise, a mostly assimilated, unified people, (remember WWII), a common Christianity, a common moral code, and an actual pride in America (hard to imagine, huh).
Rant all you want. It the liberals who have changed and move away from the historic America and the Conservatives who are attempting to preserve it.
The big divide started following Roe v. Wade, when the Democrat party elevated the aborting of American children by the tens of millions, to be the holiest-of-all holy cows. It was a decision made by dishonest judges lying about the Constitution and imposing it upon the country by authoritarian decree, beyond the reach of the Democratic process.
Reagan was able to use the common resentment of the decision to weld together the southern and northern conservatives who had been mostly divided since the Civil War.
The liberal/democrat psychology --summarized as "we are superior because we see all that is wrong with America and how evil are those who disagree--is inherently destructive of unity. Encouraging divisions in society is the basic liberal strategy. Teach racial hatred, class hatred, ethnic hatred, religious hatred philosophical hatred is seen as the path to power. And it is working.
Liberals would profess to love America too, but there is nothing about the traditional America--or Americans--that you like. And Conservatives are weirdos and evil for defending it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Didn't read the article, did you? Stated simply, it was an actual conservative telling what Republicans aren't any longer. Your revisionist history isn't going to change the realities, like the one that this is not, and never was, a Christian nation, or that the racial hatred today comes from Republicans -- along with gay hatred.

[Text: Removed by Moderator] If you opened your eyes, you'd see what has taken a number of us from the Republican party: we left it because we were/are conservatives, and it no longer is.

Liberals have drifted from the historical America -- but today's Republicans are working diligently to trash it completely.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I just love it when liberals tell us what Conservatives are supposed to be like. .

Oh, I'm sure no more than how much I love how "conservatives" tell the rest of America what being an American is supposed to be.

How's that working for ya?

Pretty comfortable and cushy I'd imagine; not having to think for oneself, relying upon right wing news and talk radio informing your opinions for you.

Shaping your world views on who to hate, and who to blame for your sad lot in life.

Making things simple for you by allowing you to completely discount logic, reason, science, accountability, personal responsibility, while being led like sheep to slaughter.

I'm sorry, but where I live, in my world Democracy and Politics is a FULL CONTACT SPORT!

To be an American you must be willing to give your life to defend an opposing view that you would be willing to spend your life opposing, than to sit silently and allow others to silence the opinions and views of another.

And you know what?

I'm not even going to apologize for having that view and perspective.

I'm and American first, a Texan second, and everything else is just politics.

Republicans, the "right wing" and the GOP completely lost me as a "potential convert" to their cause just a couple of weeks after 9/11/01.

Americans (that would be ALL OF US; regardless of party affiliation, whether we belonged to a union or not, whether we worshiped the same God or not, whether we spoke the same languages or not, whether we were straight or gay or not) all watched in horror, shock, and disbelief as our own Domestic Carriers, loaded with American Passengers slammed into the World Trade Center in lower Manhatten that Tuesday Morning of September 11, 2001.

For almost two weeks, I never felt more connected and unified as an American with my coworkers, with my neighbors, and with complete strangers, and the rest of the world than I did during the hours and days after that horrific event.

I'm figuring that it only lasted that long because it took Republicans (who controlled the White House, and both houses of Congress at the time to figure out some way to capitalize politically for their own personal gain.)

What did America do?

We supported a war on Iraq based upon lies; WMD's, harboring of terrorists, when in fact they were in Afghanistan the whole time.

Americans sat back and watch George W. Bush build up the largest consolidation of power since FDR, and take a budget surplus left by Clinton, and turn it into a 3 TRILLION DOLLAR budget deficit.

All the while the "right wingers" were singing the same praises and vilifying those who opposed them much like the Nazis did when the Reichstag in Germany Mysteriously burned in 1933.

So yeah, the right wingers and their defenders get upset when they're compared to Nazis, but there is some historical precedence.

In my heart and gut, I honestly cannot see Mitt Romney winning the White House this November.

I'm personally more concerned with how the House and Senate races are going to go.

2016?

That's going to be the shit show for our Republic.

But the "authoritarian sisters," the anectdodal "Jews for Jesus / Tea Bagging for Jeezus" so called Americans are only hastening the death nail for our Republic, while the "standing on principle" but constantly failing opposition led by Obama acquiesces by attacking Romney on Bain Capital as his standing principle toward his opposition.

Keep a journal my friends. Write letters. Find some true and genuine way to record your words of discontent.


Fascism is rarely declared in world history as a Coup d'état, meaning that it ever happened suddenly.

I've studied my world history, and I've personally known survivors of the fascism that swept the World during the mid 20th Century.

The America that I grew up believing in, and flag that I pledged to is nothing more than a myth.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God (since 1954), indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

But when you enlist, become an officer in the United States Military, or are elected to public office you're not required to make a "pledge" but rather to make an oath:

In 1789, the 1st United States Congress created a fourteen-word oath to fulfill the constitutional requirement: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."[56] It also passed the Judiciary Act of 1789, which established an additional oath taken by federal judges:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm), that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me, according to the best of my abilities and understanding, agreeably to the Constitution, and laws of the United States. So help me God

Source.

Of course it's changed since then.

Of course anyone can sit back and point fingers, cast stones, and be "arm chair quarterbacks."

But unless you actually vote, volunteer to serve, or are actually more than a "talking point parrot" one's opinion in politics our our national discourse doesn't mean one iota to me.

So to put thing into Quaker speak; Fuck Thee.

 

[Kulindahr]

The America that I grew up believing in, and flag that I pledged to is nothing more than a myth.

Amen. And in response to that, the Republicans are striving to finish killing it, and to replace it with a religious fascism.

So to put thing into Quaker speak; Fuck Thee.

Aye -- "Be thou fucked!"

 

[Benvolio]

The Republicans have not moved to the right. They are struggling to preserve the America that was great.