"Why I'm Not Proud of Being Gay"

[miken1999]

'White pride'?

'Man pride'?

White pride usually requires bed sheets, a couple horses and a torch.

 

[HoodedRat]

^
In the USA, perhaps.

But maybe you are confusing 'white pride' with 'white power'? Like 'black pride' vs 'black power', they are not quite the same thing.

 

[HoodedRat]

^
Everyone is entitled to 'uplift' themselves; 'marginalized' or otherwise.

 

[frankfrank]

What? Didn't she ever warn you, "THAT thing'll put out yore EYE"?

Masturbation will put out your eye. ("Don't masturbate! It will make you go blind!")

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

In fact, a team of University of British Columbia psychologists led by Jessica Tracy would note that the foregoing definitions of pride are actually referring to a particularly ancient, evolutionarily derived subtype, which they refer to as hubristic pride. Tracy and her colleagues have argued that hubristic pride evolved to promote and sustain dominance, with the emotional engines of conceit and arrogance motivating individuals to scale the social hierarchy, which translates to genetic fitness. Laboratory participants induced to feel hubristic pride display increased aggression, hostility, and manipulation—all tactics of a tooth-and-nail pathway to social dominance that is based primarily on fear rather than respect. It’s not terribly surprising, in this light, that individuals who are more prone to exhibiting hubristic pride tend also to be more disagreeable, neurotic, narcissistic, are less conscientious and have a history of poor relationships and mental health problems.

In fact if da toons of ages pull thumb out their butt world not keep hear same crap everyday ans many folk no got put up with swallow crap

if folk got nothin betta do then go waste life at universitys ta go spit out rest life useless crap past it use date theres a ton stuff planet doins what wait around fa eons fa some toons ta figure OOH

thankyou

 

[Swellegant]

It amuses me that the author parses (or nitpicks) the word "pride" but does not dissect or even look at the word "gay." Like many, he appears to equate "gay" with "homosexual" as if they meant exactly the same thing.

But he should know, since he has an OED to hand, that no two words mean exactly the same thing: every word in the English language is weighted with connotation as well as denotation, emotional as well as historical etymology, and all sorts of shadings of sound and meaning.

"Gay" is an identity that one embraces or does not embrace, which is always paired with homosexual behavior of some type, but is not attached to all homosexual behavior. All gays engage in homosexual behavior, but not all who engage in homosexual behavior are gay, if you see what I mean.

The act of coming out is the act in which we justly take pride. Our ongoing and seemingly endless work for our own civil rights is an act in which we may justly take pride (at least if we've done anything about it). The very act of survival in the toxic environments in which most of us grow up is something in which we may justly take pride (survival is an act, not a being).

The article is all very well for a puff piece in a scientific journal, but it's horribly imbalanced... to delve into the meanings of one word in a two-word phrase without even touching on the meanings of the other word is simply not scholarly. I know I never would have got away with it in college.

 

[Kensei]

The only pride I have is the pride in my existence.

 

[yummylongsword]

I read an interesting book the other day. It talked about how our society values self-truthfulness and individuality so much that we've decided that negative traits are simply "individual." While I agree that individualism is often great, I also find that a certain amount of self control is also beneficial. People who get angry and throw fits in public are just being "true to their emotions," but they're nevertheless making a spectacle of themselves, something most people don't want to experience.

I find a similar phenomenon occurs with gay pride. It's great that people are comfortable with their sexuality, and people are entitled to their personalities which are oftentimes flamboyant and outgoing. However, the giant public spectacle of naked people running around, screaming and getting drunk and high, of having sex in public... that's not pride to me; that's shame. Inappropriate behavior in public should not be validated just because a group of people is oppressed.

That's why I don't like to associate myself with "gay pride." I'm perfectly alright with my sexuality and glad that so many are too, but I have no desire to link myself with deviant public sexually, illegal drug use and general disruption that occurs at gay pride festivals and parades.

(I know I may come off like some middle-school sex ed video on what is and isn't appropriate, but that's just how I feel).

 

[Swellegant]

Sasquatch and Bigfoot, surely they are the same thing??

They may refer to the same creature, but there is a reason you would say "Sasquatch" rather than "Bigfoot." That reason may be personal or it may be cultural, but the two words have different connotations.

Then gay and homosexual behaviour are not the same thing, gay and homosexual arguably are tho.

A homosexual is loosely defined as a person who engages in homosexual behavior. The general connotation of "a homosexual" is that his or her sexual attractions are completely or predominantly homosexual; strictly speaking, however, there is no such thing as a homosexual: the word was meant to be an adjective, not a noun. One can speak of homosexual acts, or homosexual persons, but not homosexuals...it's a misnomer, and that's why I avoid it.

Being gay, however, is an identity whose genesis is found in sexual behavior but goes beyond mere sexual behavior into social behavior. The very word "gay" was created to fight a social stigma toward homosexual behavior... it exists in opposition to socially enforced paradigms. It is therefore a choice to be "gay," to stand up in opposition to the social expectations.

You don't get to choose the gender of your sexual attraction; you do, however, choose what you're going to do about it. Fight it, or accept it? Hide it, or celebrate it? It's your responsibility to make these kinds of choices... and people who think those choices are made for them, by biology or society, are lying to themselves.

Survival is an instinct we are told, so really, its part of our being.

Instinctive actions are still actions. And as human beings, we have the choice to follow our instincts or not... this is how humans are able to kill themselves, which is anti-instinctive, or sacrifice their lives for others. Therefore survival is an act.

 

[Swellegant]

That's why I don't like to associate myself with "gay pride." I'm perfectly alright with my sexuality and glad that so many are too, but I have no desire to link myself with deviant public sexually, illegal drug use and general disruption that occurs at gay pride festivals and parades.

You're missing the forest for the trees. Maybe it is different in other places, but I've been attending Pride in San Francisco for most of my adult life, and I have not seen what you describe. Sure, a few people here or there, but not everybody.

I see happy, free people displaying their happiness and freedom. THOUSANDS of them. I see maybe a hundred half-naked men and women, maybe a hundred in dresses and outlandish costumes, but I see eight hundred more in polo-shirts and cargo-shorts. I see people with dogs on leashes, kids in strollers, old folks in wheelchairs; hundreds of representatives of huge corporations and historically "straight" professions like firefighters and police, who now have the freedom to be out at work, come marching down the street in between those twenty floats blaring disco music and spewing glitter; I see stodgy politicians and angry activists and hopeful social workers as well as Radical Faeries and Dykes on Bikes.

Sometimes that freedom does take an ugly turn, when people get carried away and freedom turns to licentiousness. But seriously, do you not watch the baseball game because half the audience is baked to the gills on big buckets of beer? Do you not watch porn because some of the actors are on drugs? Do you not go to your sister's wedding because Uncle Al is sure to get plastered and do the can-can on the buffet table?

If you're going to disassociate yourself from every group that has members who behave badly, you're going to be living on an island by yourself.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

It amuses me that the author parses (or nitpicks) the word "pride" but does not dissect or even look at the word "gay." Like many, he appears to equate "gay" with "homosexual" as if they meant exactly the same thing.

But he should know, since he has an OED to hand, that no two words mean exactly the same thing: every word in the English language is weighted with connotation as well as denotation, emotional as well as historical etymology, and all sorts of shadings of sound and meaning.

"Gay" is an identity that one embraces or does not embrace, which is always paired with homosexual behavior of some type, but is not attached to all homosexual behavior. All gays engage in homosexual behavior, but not all who engage in homosexual behavior are gay, if you see what I mean.

The act of coming out is the act in which we justly take pride. Our ongoing and seemingly endless work for our own civil rights is an act in which we may justly take pride (at least if we've done anything about it). The very act of survival in the toxic environments in which most of us grow up is something in which we may justly take pride (survival is an act, not a being).

The article is all very well for a puff piece in a scientific journal, but it's horribly imbalanced... to delve into the meanings of one word in a two-word phrase without even touching on the meanings of the other word is simply not scholarly. I know I never would have got away with it in college.

YEAH PUFF

dat kool word NITTYPICKS da collective world order of uman nittypicks nothin else do but spit out their bit of spit do nothin fa noone or thang

if this was da MOON ya write YOU IDIOTS ON EARTH

ans da great minds rush ta dick ans look up idiot ans discuss it fa eons while planet turn ta more crap

OY UNIVERSITYS OUT THERE SHUT UP ans when realllllllllllyyyyyyyy dig up what real be nice ya add it ta ta pile of shit worlds cultures keep on make what ya sooo love shove down ya mutton head publics throats whens theys a not find somethin ta nit pick cause they got make noise out their hole in face so they can check is alive or not

now lots ma hard on!!!!!! DAT BADDDDD

but will work hard get it back

thnakyou

 

[yummylongsword]

You're missing the forest for the trees. Maybe it is different in other places, but I've been attending Pride in San Francisco for most of my adult life, and I have not seen what you describe. Sure, a few people here or there, but not everybody.

I see happy, free people displaying their happiness and freedom. THOUSANDS of them. I see maybe a hundred half-naked men and women, maybe a hundred in dresses and outlandish costumes, but I see eight hundred more in polo-shirts and cargo-shorts. I see people with dogs on leashes, kids in strollers, old folks in wheelchairs; hundreds of representatives of huge corporations and historically "straight" professions like firefighters and police, who now have the freedom to be out at work, come marching down the street in between those twenty floats blaring disco music and spewing glitter; I see stodgy politicians and angry activists and hopeful social workers as well as Radical Faeries and Dykes on Bikes.

Sometimes that freedom does take an ugly turn, when people get carried away and freedom turns to licentiousness. But seriously, do you not watch the baseball game because half the audience is baked to the gills on big buckets of beer? Do you not watch porn because some of the actors are on drugs? Do you not go to your sister's wedding because Uncle Al is sure to get plastered and do the can-can on the buffet table?

If you're going to disassociate yourself from every group that has members who behave badly, you're going to be living on an island by yourself.

This is a good point, and it's obviously not everybody that's participating in inappropriate behavior, it's probably not even most. However, the problem is that it's accepted and alright for that behavior to go on. If any of that crazy stuff happened on a regular day in the street, people would get called out for public indecency or disturbing the peace. But because it happens during a pride festival, it's just "expressing their individuality" and it's validated, which means that the LGBT community as a whole condones that kind of behavior. And from my experiences here at JUB and with LGBT friends of mine, we DO condone that kind of behavior. Look at all the negative backlash in this thread; many people are of the impression that they have a right to express themselves, no matter how rude or improper their actions. Obviously not all people at gay pride rallies act improperly, but many do and those people are validated in their actions and supported by the community as a whole.

One of the biggest problems with the LGBT community as a whole is our tendency to link sexual orientation to many, many, many unrelated subjects. If we campaigned for gay rights and nothing else, things might be different; but we campaign by making spectacles, shocking people and then yelling into their faces about how "we're here and we're fucking in the streets and wearing thongs and throwing glitter and screaming about female pop stars and you'd better fucking get used to it!"

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

This is a good point, and it's obviously not everybody that's participating in inappropriate behavior, it's probably not even most. However, the problem is that it's accepted and alright for that behavior to go on. If any of that crazy stuff happened on a regular day in the street, people would get called out for public indecency or disturbing the peace. But because it happens during a pride festival, it's just "expressing their individuality" and it's validated, which means that the LGBT community as a whole condones that kind of behavior. And from my experiences here at JUB and with LGBT friends of mine, we DO condone that kind of behavior. Look at all the negative backlash in this thread; many people are of the impression that they have a right to express themselves, no matter how rude or improper their actions. Obviously not all people at gay pride rallies act improperly, but many do and those people are validated in their actions and supported by the community as a whole.

One of the biggest problems with the LGBT community as a whole is our tendency to link sexual orientation to many, many, many unrelated subjects. If we campaigned for gay rights and nothing else, things might be different; but we campaign by making spectacles, shocking people and then yelling into their faces about how "we're here and we're fucking in the streets and wearing thongs and throwing glitter and screaming about female pop stars and you'd better fucking get used to it!"

go read it

if eat da librarys of alls da worlds ya will figure books not tasty

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Ah, yes, that makes sense. Although, if Mr Smith calls the yeti a bigfoot, and Mr Jones calls the yeti a sasquatch, Mr Johnson, who calls the yeti a yeti, will still be right to come along and bang their heads together, right?



This is a bit confusing, interesting indeed, but confusing. I mean, if a person chooses to be 'gay' in opposition to the wrongful application of the term homosexual, what are gay people actually, if it's not homosexual???



Another well made point. Although again, i'm not sure i understand that survival is relevant here, i mean, coming out is no more surviving than what staying in the closet is. I can understand the pride in taking the step to come out, but to continue to celebrate and take pride in that throughout a life seems just odd. And i have to agree with yummylongsword about what gay pride events appear to have degenerated into. No longer a celebration of identity, but a flaunting of it, its pretty ugly.

point out while worlds toys got lot folk of mutton head cultures think OOH 2 week holiday on da moon with 3D tv ta see da earth in 3D

worlds cultures stills live ins BARBARIC WAYS polite call modern civilization with get chance cross bit of paper so ya feel YA NOT TOTAL WASTE OF SPACE

got stop readin it make ya balls turn ta micro atomic pips

 

[undisclosed1234]

i take as much pride in being bi, gay, whatever, as i do in being black, 5'11,or right-handed, which is exactly none. I don't apologize or feel bad about these things either but of the things I'm proud of these certainly aren't making the list given that they're natural states.

But live and let live, whatever. I get what the reaffirmation does for gay rights as a whole but it's not my scene. Went to one here in Mtl and it was essentially just a parade of everything I dislike most about "The Community''. Lewdness, etc, Gaga-obsession (she's not the goddamn Messiah, can we calm down?) But it serves a social purpose I guess.

 

[Treborf]

"Pride" in this sort of context just means the precise opposite of shame. I guess you could instead use self-respect, but whatever.

Anyway, I don't agree that the people who go on about being proud to be gay haven't done anything to deserve their pride. The idea, I think is that society has so discouraged the gay identity that ust being a well-adjusted, unapologetic gay man is a feat. I just think about how long it took me to come to terms with being gay, and how many homosexual men and women who will deny their gayness to the ends of the earth. Damn right I'm proud that I'm no longer one of them, especially when I could have so easily been.

 

[jasoncrew03]

Our very need to even have "gay pride," to celebrate "Pride Week" through main street parades festooned with drag queens, leather daddies, and dykes on bikes, is such a pathetic reflection of what we think we should and shouldn’t be proud of as human beings that I’m afraid I just can’t muster up the requisite "gay pride" to feel this way.

Still, I’ll be on the sidelines watching the floats and all the pretty boys go by, marveling and salivating at the lurid excesses that invigorate the very same stereotypes that we spend the rest of the year fighting against.

This is, sadly, true and the reason I do not and will not attend "Pride" functions.