Why jobs are sent overseas.

[Kulindahr]

The economies of scale there are unfathomable....

I know -- for scientific studies, too. Someone in the UK a number of years back wanted to know the effects of a variety of things on workers, but he didn't want to just study a few hundred people in England or Scotland. So he contacted a colleague in Hong Kong, who called someone he knew on the mainland, and got some government functionary interested. Next thing the guy in the UK knows, his study population is two million factory workers . . . .

One thing they learned is that workers who get a hug at the beginning of the work day and another at lunch are more cheerful and have fewer accidents. I don't know if it lasted, but for a while some factories in China had official huggers.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ Bizarre but credible.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Bizarre but credible.

I gave out t-shirts to everyone one Christmas based on the conclusion the Chinese made, that every human being needs three hugs a day. I put two people hugging on the front, that statement on the back, and down below in smaller print, "I'm 'way behind quota".

One friend opened his, looked at it, and said, "Hey, you read that article, too!"

 

[Benvolio]

Benvolio, one word completely destroys all of your arguments:

Germany

They are your worst nightmare: heavily unionized, deeply protected by the government, and so on...
....but they're the healthiest nation in Europe.

Now I dare you to explain that. (I know you won't.)

Our Democrat party actively promotes class, racial, ethnic, strife as its primary reason for existence.

Germany now limits immigration to skilled persons, while the US for partisan reasons emphasizes low skilled labor, dragging down lower and middle class incomes and putting large numbers out of work.
The parliamentary system just works better than our presidential system. It is so hard to be elected that the talents to get elected are not the talents to be president. In a parliamentary system gridlock cannot happen if the prime minister is elected from one house.
Germans are more patriotic than most Americans, who are taught to dislike almost everything about their country: it's history, it's people, it's culture, it's economy, it's religion etc.
,

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Germans are more patriotic than most Americans, who are taught to dislike almost everything about their country: it's history, it's people, it's culture, it's economy, it's religion etc.
,

and what is the RELIGION of America?

 

[Rolyo85]

Also, like most civilized countries, Germany doesn't give an awful lot of fuck about its religionS...

 

[rareboy]

^ You're being called out in multiple threads, and here I see you're continuing to post while ducking out of the heat. Sounds like the game is up, Benvolio.

I also think the game is up.

The nonsense in the thread about gay adoptions pretty much smoked you out.

It is a shame that you squandered all your cred so many months before the election is actually fought.

What incarnation will the RNC send their minions in under next??????

 

[Kulindahr]

the US for partisan reasons emphasizes low skilled labor, dragging down lower and middle class incomes and putting large numbers out of work.

Can you give us a cite showing that in the law?

 

[Kulindahr]

and what is the RELIGION of America?

Money!

 

[devildog]

Also, countries like China, India and Brazil are catching up. They should develop. Then it will balance out. Cause with more economic growth and development workers there will get higher wages, benefits, and then pay more taxes in their countries.. and so on.

Its a twisted reasoning to say: well, they got a lot of cheap labor and poor working conditions, so then we gotta lower our standards to be able to compete. It's the other way around: they should raise their standard. And that's what's happening.

China's Rising Wages Propel Prices - WSJ.com
"He predicts overall, China's wages will increase 80% over the next five years"

Happening. They're just catching up. We're not making the 21st century stronger and better by lowering our own standards. We're making the 21st century stronger and better by pulling up those who aren't there yet.

 

[Benvolio]

It may balance some day but there will always be cheaper labor somewhere; Africa, South America etc. We need to eliminate unnecessary legal burdens to employers to allow them to be competitive at home and not go out of business or send jobs overseas.

 

[Rolyo85]

"Unnecessary" of course meaning "any obligation to do anything for or be accountable in any way to their employes"?

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

When the price of fossil fuels, such as bunker oil or diesel hit a certain price, and it will. Some or a lot of manufacturers will return to North America (USA, Canada) for those target markets. But only at that time. Even if free slave labor is used in 3rd world nations far from North America, it will still be cheaper to build closer to destination over transport fees. It will start slow and has already depending on the products value. A chaotic and rough time for all but at one point it will make more sense to make clothing, build electronics and refrigerators closer to market over adding cost for bunker oil to fire a freighter traveling 4,000 miles to a port.
Until or if that doesn't occur those jobs are never coming back to the USA (Canada) in lieu of total collapse of the lower and middle class in North America leaving only a 3rd world workforce globally, including total removal of the current decent to lack luster regulations on worker safety and environmental to equal whats available abroad. I say North America as Canada is bleeding too.
Without gearing up new industry and developing such as solar electricity for structures that will employ thousands in blue and white collar from design to install and cannot be exported. Agriculture is ready for a revamp and more thrust into technology as well.
We will end up a low end service industry country without that investment. Not everyone can be a hedge fund manager.

 

[JayHawk]

No everyone can not be a hedge fund manager.

However many folks could find technical skills to earn one helluva wage.

Interesting read below. The idea that we spent money on not so shovel ready projects is ridiculous when we should have put some of that money towards skills training. It is still not too late. There are jobs here in the US that have gone unfilled SINCE the economic downturn because people wont go get the skills or feel being a salesman is below them....

One of the problems ManpowerGroup has found is that although the unemployment rate remains high, there are jobs that go unfilled because of a skills mismatch. Its most-recent annual talent shortage survey of 65,000 employers in 41 countries showed that one-third of employers can't fill "mission-critical" positions.

Equally alarming, said Joerres, is that the same jobs keep topping the hard-to-fill list -- skilled trades workers, engineers and sales representatives.

"Generally, the reasons employers are telling us that they cannot fill roles are due to a lack of experience among candidates, technical skills deficiencies or poor employability skills," Joerres said.

That means 'soft skills,' such as collaboration, critical thinking and agility, which are crucial to generating productivity and innovation, are lacking, he said.

I agree with Vulgar to an extent but at the same time every human being in the US is not meant for college and to push everyone into it would simply degrade college academics just as forced attendance has degraded the primary education. We need to become smarter at training our people to achieve. That is the beginning of the issue and I don't think it needs more money. It needs the right incentives. it has damn near more money than any other school system in the world.

Go to a tech school and become a Nuclear Technician and get a job at any of the opening power plants... 70k to start and caps at 135k. Two years of technical school to get there.... simple solutions are out there. School can be paid for via loan as well. I really didn't understand these technical jobs going unfilled after FOUR years. that just tells me people are either ignorant or unmotivated to work. I know that is a broad brush but come on...

 

[devildog]

And it works both ways. They are developing a much bigger middle class. Who will go on foreign holidays, and demand more (expensive) foreign goods. This development can not be stopped by cutting some taxes or extreme deregulation. That's like trying to trim a tree with toenail clipper.

The best way is to work together, come to new (trade) agreements and get this new economy to work to the benefit of as many people as possible, especially young people. Just some random headlines:

- US regains top spot from China as biggest investor in clean energy
- India becomes second largest investor in UK
- Report urges U.S. open door to China investment

Because the US has barriers put up for Chinese investments that could create loads of jobs. It could bring in $1 trillion to $2 trillion into the USA by 2020. But there's protectionism.

Understandable, because you want your big companies that are a national pride to remain American. But then conservatives shouldn't complain if government (the tax payer) is needed to help keep them from bankruptcy in the biggest crisis since the 1930's.

As for Africa, we're not very fair to them either. Dumping our cheap goods there and putting up trade barriers. It makes things really tough for people there to keep a small business running and growing.

So a lot needs to change. True. But cutting taxes and deregulating is a very one-sided view on things. It's better to do that once the debt is more under control. Cutting specific taxes targeted on growth; yes. But in the big picture; no. That money is needed to pay off the Bush-debt.

Republicans should be honest about that as well.

 

[Benvolio]

It sounds like what you really want is a return to 1910. Your fellow Randians at the Ron Paul would be very happy to have you as a member.

The trouble is, 1910 was a living hell for most of us. It was an era of child labor, rats running around in meatshops, 80%+ living under the level of poverty, and 49-year life expectancies.

Randians aren't stupid people, but they're willfully blind when it comes to history. Greed brings out the absolute worst in human nature.

Never heard of them.

 

[Kulindahr]

And it works both ways. They are developing a much bigger middle class. Who will go on foreign holidays, and demand more (expensive) foreign goods. This development can not be stopped by cutting some taxes or extreme deregulation. That's like trying to trim a tree with toenail clipper.

The best way is to work together, come to new (trade) agreements and get this new economy to work to the benefit of as many people as possible, especially young people. Just some random headlines:

- US regains top spot from China as biggest investor in clean energy
- India becomes second largest investor in UK
- Report urges U.S. open door to China investment

Because the US has barriers put up for Chinese investments that could create loads of jobs. It could bring in $1 trillion to $2 trillion into the USA by 2020. But there's protectionism.

Understandable, because you want your big companies that are a national pride to remain American. But then conservatives shouldn't complain if government (the tax payer) is needed to help keep them from bankruptcy in the biggest crisis since the 1930's.

As for Africa, we're not very fair to them either. Dumping our cheap goods there and putting up trade barriers. It makes things really tough for people there to keep a small business running and growing.

So a lot needs to change. True. But cutting taxes and deregulating is a very one-sided view on things. It's better to do that once the debt is more under control. Cutting specific taxes targeted on growth; yes. But in the big picture; no. That money is needed to pay off the Bush-debt.

Republicans should be honest about that as well.

As I understand it, the barriers against China are mostly because China refuses to honor international copyright and patent agreements/rules. Customs seizes million of copies of pirate software and DVDs and more every month, coming in from China.

 

[Benvolio]

^Let's go one step further, Ben.

The current national debt stands at $13 trillion, if I'm not mistaken. If you get your way, there will be a race to the bottom with wages. Why, heck, you want to eliminate the minimum wage entirely, don't you?

Have you ever thought about how we will pay off a $13trillion debt, with a nation full of $3 per hour employees?

We won't be able to, Benvolio. What will surely follow will be a most vicious devaluation of the dollar. All those $$ you imply that you have made as a lawyer won't be worth a pot to piss in.

Is that truly what you want?

I have never heard of Randians.
Where have you been? If you had been around you could not fail to have noticed that wages have been stuck for a decade or so. Millions of jobs have been sent overseas, companies have lost business-- and jobs--to foreign competition. Businesses unable to compete have gone out of business, and the trend will continue. Labor 's and the Democrat party's continuing to regard employers as the enemy dooms the economy to a downward spiral.

 

[devildog]

As I understand it, the barriers against China are mostly because China refuses to honor international copyright and patent agreements/rules. Customs seizes million of copies of pirate software and DVDs and more every month, coming in from China.

I doubt that because pirating is everywhere. But it's for sure political. American politicians are afraid that when Chinese companies buy American companies the Chinese would gain political influence that way. In the 1980's the first Japanese investments in the USA were also controversial. It worked out.

So it's just politicians protecting their own interest. But for normal working class people it wouldn't make a difference at all. As long as the company follows the law and pays the salary, who cares? Only politicians. In their own interest. But those investments would be in the interest of everyone.

 

[Kulindahr]

I doubt that because pirating is everywhere. But it's for sure political. American politicians are afraid that when Chinese companies buy American companies the Chinese would gain political influence that way. In the 1980's the first Japanese investments in the USA were also controversial. It worked out.

So it's just politicians protecting their own interest. But for normal working class people it wouldn't make a difference at all. As long as the company follows the law and pays the salary, who cares? Only politicians. In their own interest. But those investments would be in the interest of everyone.

On the 60 Minutes (IIRC) show about the pirating issue, the stuff from China looked exactly like what they were copying, down to the instruction manuals and boxes. But a company rep scanned bar codes and found something that told him they were bogus. He said a store would never know the difference. Whatever the things were, they were over a hundred bucks a pop, and there were ten thousand in that shipment alone. Altogether the total coming from China, according to that show, can break a billion dollars worth a year -- and that's what they catch.

Sounds like a decent reason (or excuse) to block Chinese investment.