Why so smug about China?

[neruda]

I've been watching a bunch of TV shows,you tube videos and newspaper coverages on China recently. There's always glib talk on how bad the pollution is and quite honestly I find it annoying as a thirdworlder.

Why is the western media so critical of Chinese environmental records? There are dozens of western ( especially American) multinationals that spew pollutants into rivers and skies outside your own domain. You would say there are lax environmental regulations in those developing countries. I would say your corporations just chase cheap profits rather than behave responsibly.

And then when a country like China industrializes to an appreciable degree (mind you - on its own soil) - your media is all over the place about how shocking Beijing's pollution is. American sportsmen are poor delicate darlings in smoke masks battling the evils of a foreign land.

I for one cant help thinking the west is just plain jealous.

 

[RandomAccess]

I've been watching a bunch of TV shows,you tube videos and newspaper coverages on China recently. There's always glib talk on how bad the pollution is and quite honestly I find it annoying as a thirdworlder.

Why is the western media so critical of Chinese environmental records? There are dozens of western ( especially American) multinationals that spew pollutants into rivers and skies outside your own domain. You would say there are lax environmental regulations in those developing countries. I would say your corporations just chase cheap profits rather than behave responsibly.

And then when a country like China industrializes to an appreciable degree (mind you - on its own soil) - your media is all over the place about how shocking Beijing's pollution is. American sportsmen are poor delicate darlings in smoke masks battling the evils of a foreign land.

I for one cant help thinking the west is just plain jealous.

Um. . . maybe because Beijing is the most polluted host city ever? Perhaps because athletes often take very seriously what goes into their bodies, whether injested or aspirated? Might it have something to do with the health risks associated with high pollutant levels?

I think it's wonderful that China is able to host its first Olympics. I'm very impressed with the commitment they've made and monumental efforts they've undertaken as a nation and as a people. I'm becoming a fan of the country in spite of the Communist control.

It just so happens that their air quality sucks, and most of the world (not just us "ugly Americans") are aware of the fact! Even the people of China are aware of it!

 

[levenshulme31]

Surely a big part of the reason why China's pollution levels are as high as they are is down to the fact that much of its recent industrialisation has been carried out to provide the west with cheap consumer goods. It is the western corporations in their race-to-the-bottom when it comes to manufacturing which has led to so much of our stuff being made in countries such as China where environmental and other ethical concerns take a back seat in favour of the bottom line. Mix into that the fact that China's ever increasing population all want a slice of modern living and the polluting consumer goods (cars, aircon etc) that go along with their new found wealth, then the pollutiuon is hardly a surprise.

Perhaps if Wal-Mart (et al) allowed a bit more of their profits to go to the manufacturers then China would be able to have cleaner industry. Somehow I think that is unlikely.

 

[kneelin]

Surely a big part of the reason why China's pollution levels are as high as they are is down to the fact that much of its recent industrialisation has been carried out to provide the west with cheap consumer goods. It is the western corporations in their race-to-the-bottom when it comes to manufacturing which has led to so much of our stuff being made in countries such as China where environmental and other ethical concerns take a back seat in favour of the bottom line. Mix into that the fact that China's ever increasing population all want a slice of modern living and the polluting consumer goods (cars, aircon etc) that go along with their new found wealth, then the pollutiuon is hardly a surprise.

Perhaps if Wal-Mart (et al) allowed a bit more of their profits to go to the manufacturers then China would be able to have cleaner industry. Somehow I think that is unlikely.

Surely the government in Communist China which controls every element of its society controls all aspects of business/industry development in their country.
Why do they allow pollution??? For profits . .. the Chinese are complicit with anything the West does.

And as for complaints about the pollution by the athletes and media . . .
they are well deserved; maybe the Chinese shouldn't have been given the olympics if they can't provide a safe environment.

 

[Glafna]

Despite what Greenpeace would have you believe, America has a vastly cleaner environment than many countries, esp. China. As one person put it, "Ask a pilot who's been flying for 30 years and they can tell you." I realize it's chic to be down on America but I call bullshit! Granted, everyone has room for improvement but comparing the U.S. to China on pollution is ignorant.

Especially considering the latest boom in Chinese infrastructure, industry, and economy, which will probably attest for a large percentage of the pollution.

And that the US has one of the worst of the developed world, from my understanding.

 

[Glafna]

Surely the government in Communist China which controls every element of its society controls all aspects of business/industry development in their country.

Are you kidding me??? The Chinese Communist government died with Mao and his, I'd say, 2 successors. China is no more a Communist country then McCain is a war protester.

 

[lickya42000]

Are you kidding me??? The Chinese Communist government died with Mao and his, I'd say, 2 successors. China is no more a Communist country then McCain is a war protester.

Yeah, the economical concept of communism died, but it still is an authoritative government. China is at a crossroads: trying to be a leader in the modern global stage, yet keeping social order.

I've been to China many times and have stayed in Beijing often. Honestly, I don't remember seeing a sunny, clear day.

 

[Telstra]

i think election is not the only system for a country.

let us wait and see China with no election system. It might be better & peaceful with no elections.

 

[kneelin]

Are you kidding me??? The Chinese Communist government died with Mao and his, I'd say, 2 successors. China is no more a Communist country then McCain is a war protester.

So the people of China are free?
The government doesn't control all aspects of people's live?
The government doesn't control business and industry?
Call it what you will . . . makes no difference.

 

[Glafna]

So the people of China are free?
The government doesn't control all aspects of people's live?
The government doesn't control business and industry?
Call it what you will . . . makes no difference.

There has NEVER been a true Communist or Socialist government because the greed of men has always taken over when they were put into the position of power. China is a Capitalist totalitarian government, not a Communist, and there is a difference.

And there is more power with the business owners in China at times then with business owners in the "free world" because the Chinese won't put their businessmen in prison for crimes, as long as the government gets a nice piece of the action. They also won't send their citizens to other countries for tribunals or court appearances because of crimes perpetrated in said countries.

Finally, Communism is an economic belief, not so much a social, as it mostly involves the government taking over the privately owned businesses and taking control of the political side of things until the proletariat(or the working class) are ready to take over.

 

[kallipolis]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jun/19/china.usnews

[Quoted excerpt removed by moderator]

Any reference to an external source should also include an explanation of how your quote relates to the topic under discussion. CE&P Posting Guidelines

 

[kallipolis]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jun/19/china.usnewsUnquote
quote
But according to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, soaring demand for coal to generate electricity and a surge in cement production have helped to push China's recorded emissions for 2006 beyond those from the US already. It says China produced 6,200m tonnes of CO2 last year, compared with 5,800m tonnes from the US. Britain produced about 600m tonnes.
unquote

My emphasis does indicate that the United States, is almost as big a polluter as China.

 

[kallipolis]

Tyranny is a human trait, as likely to be discovered in Communist states (Joseph Stalin), Fascist states (Hitler) as in capitalist societies.

Tyranny so often hides behind the inviting smile of democracy, to remind us that people can willingly embrace slavery when appearances deceive (Revolutionary France 1793)

 

[AsianDream]

I've been watching a bunch of TV shows,you tube videos and newspaper coverages on China recently. There's always glib talk on how bad the pollution is and quite honestly I find it annoying as a thirdworlder.

Why is the western media so critical of Chinese environmental records? There are dozens of western ( especially American) multinationals that spew pollutants into rivers and skies outside your own domain. You would say there are lax environmental regulations in those developing countries. I would say your corporations just chase cheap profits rather than behave responsibly.

And then when a country like China industrializes to an appreciable degree (mind you - on its own soil) - your media is all over the place about how shocking Beijing's pollution is. American sportsmen are poor delicate darlings in smoke masks battling the evils of a foreign land.

I for one cant help thinking the west is just plain jealous.

Don’t get me wrong – China still has a lot to do to get it’s act together

But at the same stage in the industrialisation of the West - their cities were far more polluted – up until the late 1950’s London had major “smog” events where the polluted air killed thousands of people – with similar types of air pollution problems in many major US cities.

I think we are a great people that deserve to take our place in the world – and I’m personally very proud of the Olympic Games.

But I also have no illusions about the problems of the fact that my country is ruled by “bad guys” – these are the heirs of Mao. Since Deng they are pragmatically committed to the idea of economic development – but can’t see that true wealth comes from ideas – and that this needs freedom of thought.

The major risk to stability in China comes from the central governments willingness to condone corruption and not enforce the rule of law. Officially – there are now around 100,000 riots per year in China (2,000 a week). These aren’t freedom fighters for democracy – but ordinary people that have been so badly cheated (mostly by local party officials) – that they take to the streets.

I’m not sure the Chinese people really care about democracy – but they do want an end to government corruption. In Hong Kong there is not true democracy – but there is the rule of law – and very little corruption in Government

 

[kallipolis]

In Hong Kong there is not true democracy – but there is the rule of law – and very little corruption in Government

A gift from those nasty Britons.

 

[AsianDream]

In Hong Kong there is not true democracy – but there is the rule of law – and very little corruption in Government

A gift from those nasty Britons.

True we owe the Brits a lot - but it wasn't till 1991 that they allowed people in HK to be gay (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China).

While in the UK it was legalised 25 years before - so I'd hardly cast the British as totally benevolent rulers - but fair and impartial justice and governance is something they did give

 

[kallipolis]

true we owe the Brits a lot - but it wasn't till 1991 that they allowed people in HK to be gay (see

That homosexual acts were decriminalised in HK 1991, does not alter the fact that homosexuals in HK were not penalised under the law as a result of the UK changing its own laws on homosexuality in 1967. Like the UK the police had elected not to pursue such matters, as a result of government discretionary guidance to the HK police, reflecting changing public attitudes towards homosexual people.

 

[shea]

Am I the only one that remembers how the
government of China allowed the demonstrators
at Tianimen Square to be there. They allowed it
long enough to videotape to identify he participants
then sent the troops and tanks in.

The Chinese Communist Government is probably
no different than Stalin's Soviet Union if not
worse.

Enough for now.
shea

 

[AsianDream]

true we owe the Brits a lot - but it wasn't till 1991 that they allowed people in HK to be gay (see

That homosexual acts were decriminalised in HK 1991, does not alter the fact that homosexuals in HK were not penalised under the law as a result of the UK changing its own laws on homosexuality in 1967. Like the UK the police had elected not to pursue such matters, as a result of government discretionary guidance to the HK police, reflecting changing public attitudes towards homosexual people.

You have a rather "rose tinted" view of how the police operate - and I guess the Hong Police are probably no different to those in Smalltown USA. In fact the only reason the British changed the law in 1991 was because quite a few white British guys got caught in the net and were likely to cause press stories and political embarrassment back home.

As always - I do admire your way of sounding authorotative when you have absolutely no knowledge or personal experience of what you are talking about. No doubt there are many other interesting facts about Hong Kong you can enlighten me with?

 

[kallipolis]

I am well aware that Chinese feelings on homosexuality are much more conservative/regressive than that of the North European. Perhaps this explains why HK took longer to decriminalise homosexual sexual relations.

Your judgement is noted.