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Why Young People Are Right About Hillary Clinton

BenDan

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Great piece by Matt Taibbi ...........

Makes the argument that the epic failure of George McGovern in 1972 has impacted the Democrats willingness to get too progressive

That a socially liberal but all else middle of the road POV was determined the best way to get elected

In 1992 and in 1996, Clinton recaptured some of Nixon's territory through a mix of populist positions (like a middle-class tax cut) and the "triangulating" technique of pushing back against the Democrats' own liberal legacy on issues like welfare, crime and trade.

It was Bill Clinton who decided that purity was for the weak

The new Democratic version of idealism came in a package called "transactional politics." It was about getting the best deal possible given the political realities, which we were led to believe were hopelessly stacked against the hopes and dreams of the young.

The argument is that young people believe in the right things but not in things that can get done - that "incremental" gains is the ticket

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

and face it on all these things Hillary has been on the wrong side, especially the war, and for the wrong reasons

Hillary not only voted for the Iraq War, but offered a succession of ridiculous excuses for her vote. Remember, this was one of the easiest calls ever. A child could see that the Bush administration's fairy tales about WMDs and Iraqi drones spraying poison over the capital (where were they going to launch from, Martha's Vineyard?) were just that, fairy tales.
Yet Hillary voted for the invasion for the same reason many other mainstream Democrats did: They didn't want to be tagged as McGovernite peaceniks. The new Democratic Party refused to be seen as being too antiwar, even at the cost of supporting a wrong one.

And Clinton was wrong on crime and the impact has been devastating to blacks

As The New Jim Crow author Michelle Alexander noted, America when Bill Clinton left office had the world's highest incarceration rate, with a prison admission rate for black drug inmates that was 23 times 1983 levels. Hillary stumped for that crime bill, adding the Reaganesque observation that inner-city criminals were "super-predators" who needed to be "brought to heel."

And finally, Hillary's and her supporters comments about not supporting Bernie's way - it's not feasible, etc. ......... is it really that ?

One can talk about having the strength to get things done, given the political reality of the times. But one also can become too easily convinced of certain political realities, particularly when they're paying you hundreds of thousands of dollars an hour.

and much more by a great author who has it right here

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325
 
I tend to be pragmatic/centrist... I definitely think we need a break from conservatives or liberals trying to go too far, too fast. Politics is the art of the possible, though I do also think principles should stand for something, there should be some kind of core. The problem comes when the powerful have the advantage and skin the game in their favor, however. You don't have to be averaging liberal(though in many areas I'm farther to the left than I would have been five, hell even two years ago. The system is broken, and those who are completely fans of Hillary, dismissing all criticisms of her dubious positions and actions as "right wing talking points" don't see that the dam is about to break... the status quo is about to end. If not with Hillary's election(and yes, if I absolutely had to I would still vote for her over a Cruz, a Trump or a swooping in the nick of time at the Republican convention Paul Ryan). But make no mistake, the way things are now the center won't hold and change is on the way by the time the next election rolls along... as a huge slap President Obama enthusiastically endorsed Hillary's chief henchperson, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and held her up(with a straight face) as a great agent of progressive values. The one who has come down against consumers, the working poor and who has raised Elizabeth Warren's own ire especially with her opposition on tightening the regulations on the payday loan industry. If one can be any more cynical, and any less progressive, it's going against the working poor living paycheck to paycheck essentially.


Great piece... I just don't see a President Hilary Clinton having the guts to turn away from the Pacific trade agreement(which President Obama inexplicably supports strongly) or really doing anything other than at the margins to inconvenience her corporate backers. She may shock me but when it comes to anything Hillary we have good reason to be cynical and deeply distrustful. And there are too many genuinely fine people(not conservative shills) who feel the same way. If you're a progressive for Hillary, better hold her feet to the fire.
 
In any political contest, anywhere on this planet there are going be moments for the young, and idealistic when a saviour appears in their midst to lead them into the promised land.

Those Alice in Wonderland moments should be enjoyed, and celebrated before reality knocks on the door, to remind the joyous masses that progress can appear to rest, and recover before resuming its journey.

It has been said by the most progressive of people that there's a difference between keeping an open mind, and believing something because you want it to be true.

Self delusion has its merits, when believing that ones beliefs, and reality are compatible just because we believe.

“Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
 
[URL="http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/26/honest-and-unmerciful-an-open-letter-to-matt-taibbi-of-rolling-stone-magazinehttp://"]http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/26/honest-and-unmerciful-an-open-letter-to-matt-taibbi-of-rolling-stone-magazinehttp://[/URL]

And here's the open letter responding to Mr. Taibbi's musings. It is something that all Democratic voters should read.

Enjoy!
 
Well worth the read.
 
Well worth the read.

And the letter of response is so spot on---I use to admire Mike Taibbi a lot---but I have noticed over the past few years he's going over the top in his rhetoric and seems sloppy in his analysis. Trying to make a name for himself and stand out.
 
What is not being mentioned in these Democratic primaries/caucuses for 2016 is that there is divide in the party.

A part of the reason why Hillary Clinton eked out wins in particular states by 3 points or less, and why Bernie Sanders did that in Michigan (which, given he was polling 20 or so points behind, made his upset in that state come off looking like it was a stunning pickup), is because of the voting-age demographics.

In exit polls, nationwide and state after state, there tend to be four voting-age groups reported: 18–29, 30–44, 45–64, and 65+.

Generally, the Republicans' best age group is 65+. It was the only one, in 2008, which actually shifted Republican (in a presidential year in which they were the incumbent White House party and lost it in what became a Democratic pickup) by a national shift of close to 10 points.

Generally, the Democrats' best age group is 18–29. When George W. Bush won the U.S. Popular Vote, nationally he carried all age groups but this one. (Which, of course, means that 18–29 was the only voting-age group carried by losing Democratic nominee John Kerry. And the percentage-points margin, with the U.S. Popular Vote, was only R+2.46.)

65+ is there first for the Republicans.

18–29 is there first for the Democrats.

Part of the reason, I was saying earlier, that Hillary Clinton eked out victories by 3 or less points in particular states is because the two oldest voting-age groups sided with her while the two youngest sided with Bernie Sanders. You crunch the numbers and realized what aided her wins were attributed to the weight of the two oldest voting-age groups being in the 60s percentile range while the two youngest voting-age groups were in the 40s percentile range.

In the general election, the age groups which are bookends, 18–29 and 65+, are generally in the 40s while the two in between, 30–44 and 45–64, are near to 60 percent of the size of the vote in state after state and nationwide.

The fact that Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton, carried 18–29 Democratic primaries/caucuses voters in the first two states—Iowa and New Hampshire—and this has been a repeated pattern (except for the Old Confederacy states) is making a statement. The long-perceived frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, should not be losing 18–29 by a level of 4 to 1. No way.

Vox.com's Matthew Yglesias has the theory that the youngest age groups, which we call Millenials, which does cover some in the 30–44 range, are more "ideologically driven" and want a Democratic Party which is more ideologically driven to the left. After the New Hampshire Democratic presidential primary, held February 9, 2016, Yglesias wrote the following:


Any young and ambitious Democrat looking at the demographics of the party and the demographics of [Bernie] Sanders supporters has to conclude that his brand of politics is extremely promising for the future. There are racial and demographic gaps between Clinton and Sanders supporters, but the overwhelming reality is that for all groups, the young people are feeling the Bern.

Whether the first Sanders-style nominee is Sanders himself or Elizabeth Warren or someone like a Tammy Baldwin or a Keith Ellison doesn't matter. What's clear is that there's robust demand among Democrats — especially the next generation of Democrats — to remake the party along more ideological, more social democratic lines, and party leaders are going to have to answer that demand or get steamrolled.

If Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, wins the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, I would theorize that she is going to have to carry about 95 percent of these 18–29 primaries/caucuses voters who preferred Bernie Sanders. When looking at the national exit polls, after a presidential election, neither Republicans or Democrats holds 100 percent of self-identified Republicans or Democrats. In most cases, the one who holds more party support ends up having won. Typically, about 90 to 92 percent is where a winning Republican or Democrat performs. Since 18–29 are the Democrats' base of the four voting-age groups (while 65+ is that for the Republicans), a nominee Hillary Clinton will not win the general election without hitting the necessary numbers. If she prevails, she will have managed to reach that level of Primaries Bernie-to-General Hillary support. But, how that would happen is, as I see it, having to merge much of what the 18–29 voters want from the Democratic Party because their primaries/caucuses votes for Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton, isn't because they are sexually attracted to and obsessed with Bernie Sanders. They connected with the leadership Bernie Sanders has in mind for the party, for their lives, and for the nation. And they want that, more generally, from every presidential nominee from the Democratic Party.
 
Great piece... I just don't see a President Hilary Clinton having the guts to turn away from the Pacific trade agreement(which President Obama inexplicably supports strongly) or really doing anything other than at the margins to inconvenience her corporate backers. She may shock me but when it comes to anything Hillary we have good reason to be cynical and deeply distrustful. And there are too many genuinely fine people(not conservative shills) who feel the same way. If you're a progressive for Hillary, better hold her feet to the fire.

One uncomplimentary character trait Hillary is not is naive. The TPP is a powerful tool for the United States and she will use it wisely both in foreign and domestic policy. What she should do, and what I would do if I were president, is use it as a negotiating tool for US labor, by threatening to hammer free trade. Also, she can use it to force China out of its nasty habit of artificially boosting its foreign exchange reserves, but allowing cheap products into the US for consumers. That way everyone wins. Booyah!
 
One uncomplimentary character trait Hillary is not is naive. The TPP is a powerful tool for the United States and she will use it wisely both in foreign and domestic policy. What she should do, and what I would do if I were president, is use it as a negotiating tool for US labor, by threatening to hammer free trade. Also, she can use it to force China out of its nasty habit of artificially boosting its foreign exchange reserves, but allowing cheap products into the US for consumers. That way everyone wins. Booyah!

Hillary Clinton recalibrates.

She saw the exit-poll numbers after Iowa and especially New Hampshire (in which she lost by 22 percentage points), saw where young voters are, and adjusted according to what she (and her campaign) senses would be necessary for her.

The distrust is with the Elites. Those who yield the most power. The most influence. And it is in both parties. (How nice they have something in common!)

What has been interesting on the Democratic side, for those on the inside who actually have brains and are not out of touch with developing changes, is that they know that self-identified Democratic voters are showing, in their Bernie-vs.-Hillary primaries votes from the party's young voters, the first which are there to support them in general elections, that they are moving left. The party is no longer with, say, Third Way.
 
What is not being mentioned in these Democratic primaries/caucuses for 2016 is that there is divide in the party.

A part of the reason why Hillary Clinton eked out wins in particular states by 3 points or less, and why Bernie Sanders did that in Michigan (which, given he was polling 20 or so points behind, made his upset in that state come off looking like it was a stunning pickup), is because of the voting-age demographics.

In exit polls, nationwide and state after state, there tend to be four voting-age groups reported: 18–29, 30–44, 45–64, and 65+.

Generally, the Republicans' best age group is 65+. It was the only one, in 2008, which actually shifted Republican (in a presidential year in which they were the incumbent White House party and lost it in what became a Democratic pickup) by a national shift of close to 10 points.

Generally, the Democrats' best age group is 18–29. When George W. Bush won the U.S. Popular Vote, nationally he carried all age groups but this one. (Which, of course, means that 18–29 was the only voting-age group carried by losing Democratic nominee John Kerry. And the percentage-points margin, with the U.S. Popular Vote, was only R+2.46.)

65+ is there first for the Republicans.

18–29 is there first for the Democrats.

Part of the reason, I was saying earlier, that Hillary Clinton eked out victories by 3 or less points in particular states is because the two oldest voting-age groups sided with her while the two youngest sided with Bernie Sanders. You crunch the numbers and realized what aided her wins were attributed to the weight of the two oldest voting-age groups being in the 60s percentile range while the two youngest voting-age groups were in the 40s percentile range.

In the general election, the age groups which are bookends, 18–29 and 65+, are generally in the 40s while the two in between, 30–44 and 45–64, are near to 60 percent of the size of the vote in state after state and nationwide.

The fact that Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton, carried 18–29 Democratic primaries/caucuses voters in the first two states—Iowa and New Hampshire—and this has been a repeated pattern (except for the Old Confederacy states) is making a statement. The long-perceived frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, should not be losing 18–29 by a level of 4 to 1. No way.

Vox.com's Matthew Yglesias has the theory that the youngest age groups, which we call Millenials, which does cover some in the 30–44 range, are more "ideologically driven" and want a Democratic Party which is more ideologically driven to the left. After the New Hampshire Democratic presidential primary, held February 9, 2016, Yglesias wrote the following:




If Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, wins the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, I would theorize that she is going to have to carry about 95 percent of these 18–29 primaries/caucuses voters who preferred Bernie Sanders. When looking at the national exit polls, after a presidential election, neither Republicans or Democrats holds 100 percent of self-identified Republicans or Democrats. In most cases, the one who holds more party support ends up having won. Typically, about 90 to 92 percent is where a winning Republican or Democrat performs. Since 18–29 are the Democrats' base of the four voting-age groups (while 65+ is that for the Republicans), a nominee Hillary Clinton will not win the general election without hitting the necessary numbers. If she prevails, she will have managed to reach that level of Primaries Bernie-to-General Hillary support. But, how that would happen is, as I see it, having to merge much of what the 18–29 voters want from the Democratic Party because their primaries/caucuses votes for Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton, isn't because they are sexually attracted to and obsessed with Bernie Sanders. They connected with the leadership Bernie Sanders has in mind for the party, for their lives, and for the nation. And they want that, more generally, from every presidential nominee from the Democratic Party.

This same challenge goes for both candidates.
 
This same challenge goes for both candidates.

They're not equal.

As I mentioned: 18–29 is the beginning, the back support, for Democrats in elections (especially the presidency).

In 2012, when President Barack Obama was re-elected with a margin of D+3.86 and 26 states plus District of Columbia for 332 electoral votes (down from D+7.26 and 28 states plus Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District plus District of Columbia for 365 electoral votes from 2008), the two youngest voting-age groups nationally carried for him while the two oldest voting-age groups nationally carried for losing Republican Mitt Romney.

Here we are, on March 29, 2016, and we have a divide in the Democratic Party's presidential primaries in which the long-running, perceived favorite, Hillary Clinton, performs better with the age groups won in the general in 2012 by the losing Republican.

Should the 2016 Democratic nomination be won by Hillary Clinton, and not Bernie Sanders, she would be the one who has more work to do for getting the votes from the age groups which supported her rival.
 
Hillary people are going to be in for a shock when they realize that 80-90% of Americans are not illegal immigrants looking for amnesty, but working class people and citizens that demand the effing B draw a line in the sand for them, so far she has refused to do.
 
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