Would You Ever Consider Marrying a Woman?

[Orlandude]

Never. I'm a totally gay man so it would never work and would not be fair to her or me. I would add, however, that people get married for a variety of reasons....least of all love.

 

[RaKroma]

Your reality, darling, not mine. The overwhelming majority of gay men I know... and I know a LOT of them, and I didn't meet any of them in bars and clubs... are couples.

How old are most of these "overwhelming majority" gay couple friends of yours? I have feeling majority of them don't fall into 20-40 age group.

 

[sixthson]

For those who want a traditional domestic life, would you consider marrying a close female friend and starting a family if you couldn't find a gay male partner, since men tend to be very shallow, promiscuous, and non-committing?

I chose the traditional (albeit slightly alternative) domestic life with my man. I knew when I was 18 that I could never marry a woman and it wasn't because I couldn't get my dick to work with her. It was my heart that wouldn't cooperate.
I can only assume you are judging men by what you see in yourself. I think there are lots of us out here who are men of good character, faithful and deeply committed to our partners.

Reason for editing: I read your post #8 after I made the above post. It clarifies things not in your orignal post.

 

[Swellegant]

How old are most of these "overwhelming majority" gay couple friends of yours? I have feeling majority of them don't fall into 20-40 age group.

Early 20s to late 70s... though certainly the majority of that majority are in their 30s and 40s.

I will grant that most of the very young men I know are more interested in fucking around than settling down, but that's certainly not exclusive to age. And the men of all ages I know who are not in couples are largely quite happy that way. But then, most of the men I know are in recovery, and twelve-step programs tend to make one a little less prone to illusions and delusions than most... that whole "rigorous honesty" thing really blows a hole in our fantasies and the lies we tell ourselves.

I know before I got into recovery, I thought I HAD to be in a relationship, or else I just wasn't a worthwhile human being. I wasted my prime fucking-around years trying to find a boyfriend, throwing away valuable experience in favor of a dream I didn't even really believe in, saving myself for a man who didn't exist. So I get impatient when I hear someone in his 20s bitching and moaning about how there aren't any men out there who want to hitch up with him, imagining that a boyfriend will solve all his problems and make him happy.

Considering how many people are bitching about the lack of relationship material out there, one ought to be able to just pair them all up and leave the fuckers-around to themselves. But that doesn't happen, which leads me to believe there's more than a little delusion going on in that dynamic.

I have a feeling majority of them don't exist.

Begone before somebody drops a house on you.

 

[navigaytion]

Your reality, darling, not mine. The overwhelming majority of gay men I know... and I know a LOT of them, and I didn't meet any of them in bars and clubs... are couples. The few gay men I know who are "desperate" for a relationship and spend their time bitching about how all gay men are shallow and commitment-phobic (except of course themselves) are usually seriously fucked in the head and in no fit state to be in any kind of relationship. So of course something as desperate as marrying a woman so that you can settle down into a semblance of a relationship without any of the passion or pain of a real relationship will appeal to such a broken person.

How remarkably presumptuous of you. I'm guessing your part-time occupation as a keyboard therapist has really taken off.

I'm sorry if that sounds mean, but people who think relationships are the be-all/end-all and the only thing that will make them happy piss me off. I used to be one of them, but thank God I grew out of it.

Yes, dear. You "grew." Into what, I'm not sure.

 

[RaKroma]

But then, most of the men I know are in recovery, and twelve-step programs tend to make one a little less prone to illusions and delusions than most... that whole "rigorous honesty" thing really blows a hole in our fantasies and the lies we tell ourselves.

I know before I got into recovery, I thought I HAD to be in a relationship, or else I just wasn't a worthwhile human being. I wasted my prime fucking-around years trying to find a boyfriend, throwing away valuable experience in favor of a dream I didn't even really believe in, saving myself for a man who didn't exist. So I get impatient when I hear someone in his 20s bitching and moaning about how there aren't any men out there who want to hitch up with him, imagining that a boyfriend will solve all his problems and make him happy.

Considering how many people are bitching about the lack of relationship material out there, one ought to be able to just pair them all up and leave the fuckers-around to themselves. But that doesn't happen, which leads me to believe there's more than a little delusion going on in that dynamic.

You kinda confirm what the OP was saying that it's hard to find stable guys who are interested in relationships due to promiscuity. I don't find guys in recovery and 12 step programs as "happy being single." People who turn to alcohol or drugs are obviously not happy with their lives no matter how much they try to make it appear on the surface. And you yourself sound jaded about those that want relationships because you failed at finding that in your life and don't believe in it? Again confirming what the OP is talking about.

 

[Swellegant]

I don't find guys in recovery and 12 step programs as "happy being single." People who turn to alcohol or drugs are obviously not happy with their lives no matter how much they try to make it appear on the surface.

I think you'll find that people who turn to drugs and alcohol because they're unhappy, and then turn away from drugs and alcohol because they're still unhappy, become happy in sobriety. That's what the 12 step programs are all about... being happy with yourself and the world so that you don't have to turn to drugs and alcohol... or food, or shopping, or sex.

And you yourself sound jaded about those that want relationships because you failed at finding that in your life and don't believe in it? Again confirming what the OP is talking about.

I suppose I wasn't clear: I said that the OPs experience is not "REALITY" in toto, it was his own perception of reality. I countered that perception with my perception of reality, which is just as real... and possibly a good deal more considered, since I have a much longer experience of life.

Of course, that is presumptuous of me, since I don't actually know how old you or navigaytion are; I am assuming from the tenor of the commentary that you're both rather young.

My reality is that relationships are not my best mode of life; I am not psychologically nor temperamentally cut out to share my life with another. I much prefer being single; and I might have had a happier youth if I was content then with being single instead of beating myself up because I wasn't in a couple.

I also pointed out that a lot of the people who are "desperate" for a relationship have something seriously wrong in their psyches. If you talk to people in happy stable relationships, as I have done, you might find that most of them were perfectly happy on their own, and are now perfectly happy together. People who look to relationships to make them happy are in the same boat as people who look to drugs and alcohol to make them happy.

The bottom line is that happiness is a mode of being, not a destination that you can someday find if you get the right combinations of factors together. Nothing can "make" you happy.

Perhaps there is a lack of stable young men who wish to be in relationships. So that makes it a little bit harder for you. I'm forty-three and bipolar and overweight and live with my Grandmother, which (if I was interested) would make things harder for me. Big fucking deal... nobody has everything easy. And anything worth having is worth waiting for.

And seriously... if you are a stable young man ready for a relationship, there are bound to be others. Just because they're not right there in front of you doesn't mean you're the only one. If you were the only one, then... suxx to be you, and no amount of bitching about it and blaming "gay men are all shallow and promiscuous" is going to change that.

 

[navigaytion]

Sorry, that is your reality or what you perceive to be reality.

That's right, it is. And judging from what I've seen and read, it's a lot of other people's realities, too.

Yup, lots of gay men struggle with monogamy and then (by your implication, which you can't see) run to a woman for that elusive sense of family.

I made no implication. I suggested a possibility that is indeed a reality for many gay men who are lonely or fed up enough to want to enter into a marriage/relationship with a woman for a domestic home life.

I would encourage you to read what's written and not what you are trying to put in to it. The discussion works much better if I don't have to correct your silly mistakes.

 

[RaKroma]

My[/I] reality is that relationships are not my best mode of life; I am not psychologically nor temperamentally cut out to share my life with another. I much prefer being single; and I might have had a happier youth if I was content.

I also pointed out that a lot of the people who are "desperate" for a relationship have something seriously wrong in their psyches. If you talk to people in happy stable relationships, as I have done, you might find that most of them were perfectly happy on their own, and are now perfectly happy together. People who look to relationships to make them happy are in the same boat as people who look to drugs and alcohol to make them happy.

There is nothing wrong in people's psyches who desire to be in relationships. That's part of human nature. Being single and lonely is not what majority of people seek in this world. Most want to share their love and lives with someone; you know all that kaka-love stuff that humans been after for thousands of years. I also don't see anything abnormal with being young and pursuing stable relationships either. Plenty of that exists around us-especially in the straight world. Just because you don't like relationships doesn't mean others must have something wrong with them if they're after it.

 

[Musik2400]

I myself have never been the slightest bit promiscuous, or non-committing. I find the idea of "fucking around" or "one night stands" repulsive and shameful.

 

[RaKroma]

Maybe you're being to picky.

Ye like I don't want to be in an open relationship (demands of my last bf after 5 months.) Nor do I want to date men 20 years older than me no matter how nice and stable they are in their lives. Don't seem to be that picky or is it by today's standards?

 

[Swellegant]

There is nothing wrong in people's psyches who desire to be in relationships. That's part of human nature. Being single and lonely is not what majority of people seek in this world. Most want to share their love and lives with someone; you know all that kaka-love stuff that humans been after for thousands of years. I also don't see anything abnormal with being young and pursuing stable relationships either. Plenty of that exists around us-especially in the straight world. Just because you don't like relationships doesn't mean others must have something wrong with them if they're after it.

"...desperate to be in a relationship..."

"...desire to be in a relationship"...

Do you see the difference there? I'm talking about something entirely different from what you're talking about. I was responding to people who are so desperate to be in a relationship that they'll accept a half-assed facsimile instead of waiting for and being ready for the real thing.

"Being single and lonely..."

"Being single and happy..."

Again two entirely different things. Why are you lonely? What exactly are you looking for in life? How do you envision a relationship working? What will a relationship do for you? What do you have to offer to a relationship? These are questions that I invite you to ask yourself; they are questions that I had to ask myself, and I came out the other end with happiness and a much better understanding of myself.

I was lonely because I didn't have what I thought I was supposed to have, and focused my energies on getting it... instead of on being a good friend to my many friends and a good relative to my numerous family. Once I stopped focusing on the boyfriend that I thought I was supposed to have, and focused instead of the friendships and family relationships I did have, I wasn't lonely anymore.

Of course human beings need companionship; they need to have families and communities. But the model of sexually monogamous romantic couples is a relatively new one and not based in human nature. If you're going to talk nature, promiscuity in males is much more natural. Creating communities of friends and extended family is much more natural than a community of marriage and immediate offspring.

The whole "happy couples" paradigm is a cultural construct that does not take into account two men in love with each other. Being gay means that you don't have to have this one thing or nothing at all. Everything we do is an exploration of exactly what we and our friends and our lovers want out of life without having to look to our parents and their traditions and their religions for structure. We make our own structure.

Gay men who marry women out of loneliness have set themselves up for unhappiness (in my opinion, I hasten to add) by thinking that mommy-plus-daddy is the only way a person can live. They have looked for a man to fit into their mommy-and-daddy paradigm, and maybe there isn't one. Men are certainly capable of monogamy, and I consider it admirable for two people to commit to each other to that extent; but not everyone is capable of monogamy, not everyone wants it, and they have every right to not be capable of it and not want it.

Not everybody can be happy that way... I think the 50%+ divorce rate amongst our straight brothers and sisters shows that. Why should we pattern our lives after the heteronormative paradigm? We don't have to, and it's not even working all that well for them, so why bother?

Promiscuity and singleness aren't inherently unhealthy; but wanting something that may not exist and pining and moaning because Prince Charming hasn't swept them off their feet, and so they go off with Sleeping Beauty instead because it's easier than waiting a couple of years or even decades to meet someone worthwhile... they are unhealthy.

If a monogamous relationship is what you want, go for it. But don't chicken out and take "almost love" or "good enough" just to get the appearance, the appropriate mis-en-scene, the waffle-iron and the picket fence, a comfortable complacency based on an old-fashioned and useless pattern. That's short-sighted and will not, ultimately, work very well. Wanting what you think you're supposed to want is a waste of energy; going after what you know you want is never a waste.

The question is: do you really want it, or do you just think you do? I know my answer; you have to find your answer.

 

[RaKroma]

Men are certainly capable of monogamy, and I consider it admirable for two people to commit to each other to that extent; but not everyone is capable of monogamy, not everyone wants it, and they have every right to not be capable of it and not want it.

Not everybody can be happy that way... I think the 50%+ divorce rate amongst our straight brothers and sisters shows that. Why should we pattern our lives after the heteronormative paradigm? We don't have to, and it's not even working all that well for them, so why bother?

I didn't know that monogamy and faithfulness was a "heteronormative" thing that shouldn't be bothered with by gay men. I guess we are a different breed of humans. Damn, I need to pull out my "how to be gay" manual and retrain myself to dump these silly ideals and just start fucking a new guy every week because apparently 50% of straight people divorce so logic says that there is no point to be faithful. BTW, 50% divorce rates did not exist in the past and doesn't exist everywhere around the world. We have our society to blame for the rising divorce rates.

 

[Ram]

For those who want a traditional domestic life, would you consider marrying a close female friend and starting a family if you couldn't find a gay male partner, since men tend to be very shallow, promiscuous, and non-committing?

Someone has got *~*issues*~*.

As a non-promiscuous, very committing (I must admit I am shallow) young man who is gay, I will not marry a woman and ruin her life just because my pathetic life had one or two bad experiences in the local gay club.

Sorry but I can only love a man the way a straight man can love another woman. I think your straight woman friend, no matter how stupid she is in that moment for agreeing to marry you, will need that kind of affection, love and care and concern that a only another straight man can give her. Sorry but universal friendship love won't just cut it. I find your statement very demeaning to the women out there: they are not your backup plan just because you failed to fit your morals into our society.

Sure. Go ahead and marry a woman. I agree, men can be shallow, promiscuous and non-committing but dishonesty will be your special trait.

 

[Ram]

If I loved her, I would. It would have nothing to do with being a "consolation prize" because I find men shallow. It would be simply because I love her.

Exactly..............

 

[navigaytion]

Someone has got *~*issues*~*.

As a non-promiscuous, very committing (I must admit I am shallow) young man who is gay, I will not marry a woman and ruin her life just because my pathetic life had one or two bad experiences in the local gay club.

Sorry but I can only love a man the way a straight man can love another woman. I think your straight woman friend, no matter how stupid she is in that moment for agreeing to marry you, will need that kind of affection, love and care and concern that a only another straight man can give her. Sorry but universal friendship love won't just cut it. I find your statement very demeaning to the women out there: they are not your backup plan just because you failed to fit your morals into our society.

Sure. Go ahead and marry a woman. I agree, men can be shallow, promiscuous and non-committing but dishonesty will be your special trait.

This isn't about me, this about the gay men who may be considering this as an option. Direct your comments at them. Thanks.

 

[fetaby]

Well since men are such fuck ups as it seems, why don't the women just marry each other?

 

[TheOscar]

Haha, no, I wouldn't. It'd be weird. Having kids would be a chore then. It would seem pointless to get with a woman just to finally get a "normal" life.

 

[Jayden]

No . . . . . . . .

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Well, yeah I would marry a woman since I am attracted to them. Yeah it would be tough but if I was totally committed to the woman and the marriage, I would make sure that I would do everything possible to make it work. Even telling her that I have some same gender attraction issues so that she is fully aware goin in.

gon read it

anyway

this thread a jen

thankyou