On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[Kulindahr]

CGTN, yes it is communists, said 50 new local cases at the moment.
If you don't believe their numbers, why should they believe your numbers

Because it's been evident that China has been lying from the beginning of the COVID situation and still is: the movement into and out of hospitals and other medical facilities, the movement to mortuaries and crematoria, the exhaust output of crematoria, and more can be and is observed by satellites, and it all adds up to more deaths than China has admitted.

It isn't a lack of trust that leads to believe they're lying, it's the fact that they're lying that leads to a lack of trust.

 

[belamyi]

CGTN, yes it is communists, said 50 new local cases at the moment.
If you don't believe their numbers, why should they believe your numbers

Because it's been evident that China has been lying from the beginning of the COVID situation and still is: the movement into and out of hospitals and other medical facilities, the movement to mortuaries and crematoria, the exhaust output of crematoria, and more can be and is observed by satellites, and it all adds up to more deaths than China has admitted.

It isn't a lack of trust that leads to believe they're lying, it's the fact that they're lying that leads to a lack of trust.

Telstra, it is not a priori distrust of communists, it's a conclusion a posteriori after verifying that all the elements that Kulindahr has mentioned do not add up.

ALL countries have underreported cases and deaths, and it is only a question of how big has been that underreporting, the whole depending mainly on two or three interrelated factors: the size of the country, the ability to cope up with the verification and counting of the cases and the political will to do so.

 

[Telstra]

Because it's been evident that China has been lying from the beginning of the COVID situation and still is: the movement into and out of hospitals and other medical facilities, the movement to mortuaries and crematoria, the exhaust output of crematoria, and more can be and is observed by satellites, and it all adds up to more deaths than China has admitted.

It isn't a lack of trust that leads to believe they're lying, it's the fact that they're lying that leads to a lack of trust.

I have to LOL at satellites and exhaust out put.
Links ?

 

[KaraBulut]

Because it's been evident that China has been lying from the beginning of the COVID situation and still is: the movement into and out of hospitals and other medical facilities, the movement to mortuaries and crematoria, the exhaust output of crematoria, and more can be and is observed by satellites, and it all adds up to more deaths than China has admitted.

It isn't a lack of trust that leads to believe they're lying, it's the fact that they're lying that leads to a lack of trust.

China's official numbers claim they have only had a little over 100,000 cases and less than 3,000 cases. At this point, no one believes what they're reported.

The lying goes back to the very beginning in Feb-2020 when they didn't report low-acuity or asymptomatic cases. Local officials in Wuhan undercounted and underreported the case numbers out of fear of reprisal from the national government. No effort was ever made to correct the record.

China Says It's Beating Coronavirus. But Can We Believe Its Numbers? [Time - 1-Apr-2020]

There was an obvious disconnect between what was being reported in Wuhan in early 2020 and what the news reports were showing. China was reporting low numbers in Wuhan, yet they undertook a massive project to build a huge field hospital. Before the national government cracked down on social media, there were anecdotal reports from people in Wuhan that patients were dying in emergency room waiting areas. Pictures leaked out of large pallets of funeral urns that were shipped into Wuhan. Hundreds of thousands of people disappeared from China's pension rolls.

Vanished 150,000 elderly residents raise doubts about Wuhan's Covid death toll[Taiwan News 18 Feb 2021]

The disappearance of 150,000 pension recipients raises new doubts over the accuracy of the coronavirus death count reported by the Chinese government in Wuhan and Hubei Province in general.

Although the official number of hospitalized cases and deaths from COVID-19 in Hubei stand at 50,340 and 4,512, a study by the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (China CDC) found that nearly 500,000 coronavirus cases in Wuhan were never counted. In addition, reports from crematoriums in the provincial capital of Wuhan running at full capacity for many weeks as well as urn sales indicated that as many as 46,800 had died by late March of last year.

China is underreporting coronavirus numbers to ‘extend political influence’: CCP expert [Fox - 4 Feb 2021]

Statisticians are starting to unravel data for 2020, when there were large outbreaks in major cities at a time when morgues were not testing the deceased for COVID-19 and the tests that were in use were not reliable. I've seen estimates that NYC may have had 25,000 more COVID-19 deaths that were reported and London may have had 10,000 unreported deaths. One statistician has estimated that the actual death count from COVID-19 in the US may be nearer to 900,000 instead of the 735,799 deaths reported.

 

[Telstra]

^ when i see Fox news and Gordon Chang, i give zero out of 10.
Murdoch media is the worse, and Gordon chang one of the worse war mongers around.

 

[Kulindahr]

Telstra, it is not a priori distrust of communists, it's a conclusion a posteriori after verifying that all the elements that Kulindahr has mentioned do not add up.

ALL countries have underreported cases and deaths, and it is only a question of how big has been that underreporting, the whole depending mainly on two or three interrelated factors: the size of the country, the ability to cope up with the verification and counting of the cases and the political will to do so.

It's interesting that the lying was going on even before the world realized that COVID was a problem: as early as November 2019 it was noticed that the exhaust output of crematoria in Wuhan was what would be expected from over twice the numbers of deaths being reported; it was one of the early warning signs that this virus was not benign. There was a serious discussion of this on several internet platforms including Quora, and efforts were made to get the federal government to pay attention (to no avail). It did get people with access to surveillance data to take more note of traffic to and from the lab and all nearby medical facilities, though, so it wasn't a totally fruitless effort.

I haven't checked on such data for over a year; there was a point at which the numbers the Chinese were reporting were matching what the activity being monitored showed, but that just made people look elsewhere; that the Chinese had lied so seriously and for so long convinced many observers that they'd just found another "hat trick" to hide the truth -- after all, the Chinese don't value truth, they value appearances -- saving face is more important than being honest.

 

[Kulindahr]

China's official numbers claim they have only had a little over 100,000 cases and less than 3,000 cases. At this point, no one believes what they're reported.

The lying goes back to the very beginning in Feb-2020 when they didn't report low-acuity or asymptomatic cases. Local officials in Wuhan undercounted and underreported the case numbers out of fear of reprisal from the national government. No effort was ever made to correct the record.

China Says It's Beating Coronavirus. But Can We Believe Its Numbers? [Time - 1-Apr-2020]

There was an obvious disconnect between what was being reported in Wuhan in early 2020 and what the news reports were showing. China was reporting low numbers in Wuhan, yet they undertook a massive project to build a huge field hospital. Before the national government cracked down on social media, there were anecdotal reports from people in Wuhan that patients were dying in emergency room waiting areas. Pictures leaked out of large pallets of funeral urns that were shipped into Wuhan. Hundreds of thousands of people disappeared from China's pension rolls.

Vanished 150,000 elderly residents raise doubts about Wuhan's Covid death toll[Taiwan News 18 Feb 2021]


China is underreporting coronavirus numbers to ‘extend political influence’: CCP expert [Fox - 4 Feb 2021]

Statisticians are starting to unravel data for 2020, when there were large outbreaks in major cities at a time when morgues were not testing the deceased for COVID-19 and the tests that were in use were not reliable. I've seen estimates that NYC may have had 25,000 more COVID-19 deaths that were reported and London may have had 10,000 unreported deaths. One statistician has estimated that the actual death count from COVID-19 in the US may be nearer to 900,000 instead of the 735,799 deaths reported.

I'd forgotten about the massive field hospital; that was something discussed on Quora as not matching the numbers the Chinese were putting out -- it made it evident that a lot more people were getting sick of something than was being reported, and led to some pretty grotesque humor. On Quora there were a number of doctors from Australia and that area who had worked in China who noted that the Chinese at the local level will never, ever report honest data that will make them look bad, both for their own account and because it would make their immediate superiors look bad as well; basically, the word was that the whole system has become slanted to turn out good reports so the people in charge can further their careers.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'd forgotten about the massive field hospital; that was something discussed on Quora as not matching the numbers the Chinese were putting out -- it made it evident that a lot more people were getting sick of something than was being reported...

Some quick math.

The hospitalization rate for COVID-19 is at worse about 15%.

Wuhan ran out of hospital beds. They built two field hospitals to add another 2,300 beds. Extrapolated, that means that they would have had 15,000-16,000 active cases to generate the need for another 2,300 beds.

When those hospitals were being built, China was claiming they only had a total of 50,000 cases.

One study that I read last year noted that random blood samples from Wuhan residents showed a 4-5% positive rate for COVID-19 antibodies. Wuhan has a population of 8.5 million people. A 4% positivity rate yields an estimated population of 340,000 people who would have been infected.

 

[belamyi]

I haven't checked on such data for over a year; there was a point at which the numbers the Chinese were reporting were matching what the activity being monitored showed, but that just made people look elsewhere; that the Chinese had lied so seriously and for so long convinced many observers that they'd just found another "hat trick" to hide the truth -- after all, the Chinese don't value truth, they value appearances -- saving face is more important than being honest.

That may be a cultural institution in China, but it works just the same anywhere in the world: it's like saying that only the Chinese cultivate penmanship... although the Japanese one is far better without that stupid obsession with little squares for whole works.

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Actually, the Western (and with far more dangeous global consequences) equivalent of that institutional Chinese "keeping up appearances", "saving face" and selling the illusion that everything is ok and gonna be ok, could be "creative accounting"... which is not even that far from what we have been discussing surrounding China and its covid numbers.

 

[belamyi]

This time last year, there were 631 confined school groups in BCN; right now, only one.

 

[Kulindahr]

That may be a cultural institution in China, but it works just the same anywhere in the world: it's like saying that only the Chinese cultivate penmanship... although the Japanese one is far better without that stupid obsession with little squares for whole works.

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Actually, the Western (and with far more dangeous global consequences) equivalent of that institutional Chinese "keeping up appearances", "saving face" and selling the illusion that everything is ok and gonna be ok, could be "creative accounting"... which is not even that far from what we have been discussing surrounding China and its covid numbers.

So true....

Who was the English noble who described how that affected the entire British Empire?

 

[smokeshadow]

new reports challenge right-wing talking points and conspiricies

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmoveme...-wing-talking-points-and-conspiracy-theories/

 

[KaraBulut]

Week ending 30-Oct-2021:

Global COVID-19 Weekly Mortality/Morbidity

• Global Cases reported: 246,518,913 (up from 243,482,388 / 1.2%) - *‬*3,036,525 new cases this week
• Global Deaths: 4,997,354 (up from 4,946,316) - **51,038 people died this week

US COVID-19 Weekly Mortality/Morbidity

• Cases reported in the US - 45,953,801 (up from 45,428,030 / 1.2%), 525,771 new cases, 17.3% of world's new cases were in the US
• Deaths reported in the US - 745,670 deaths, 9,871 deaths this week , 19.3% of the world's deaths this week were in the US

US Vaccination Weekly Stats

• Approx number of US doses distributed - 518,701,225 (up from 503,521,625 / +15,179,600) - 81.1% US doses have been administered
  
  Total US residents vaccinated
• 1st dose: - 221,221,467 (up from 220,145,796 / +1,075,671) - 81.1% of US population
• 2nd dose: - 192,244,927 (up from 190,402,262 / +1,842,665) - 58.3% of US population
• 3rd dose: - 17,723,033 (up from 12,472,219 / +5,250,814) - 2.9% of US population
  
  US residents over age 12 vaccinated
• 1st dose: - 220,988,245 (up from 219,911,449 / +1,076,796) - 77.9% of US population
• 2nd dose: - 192,109,365 (up from 190,269,066 / +1,840,299) - 67.8% of US population
  
  
  US residents over age 65 vaccinated
• 1st dose: - 53,090,010 (up from 52,627,847 / +462,163) - 97.1% of US population
• 2nd dose: - 46,625,041 (up from 46,294,318 / +330,723) - 85.2% of US population
• 3rd dose: - 10,882,217 (up from 7,759,894 / +3,122,323) - 23.3% of US population

Coronavirus weekly cases/deaths in active countries (preference to countries with JUB members):

• US: 45,953,801 (up from 45,428,030 / +525,771 / 1.2%) - 745,670 deaths (+9,871) - avg daily: cases (+75,110) / deaths (+1,410)
• UK : 9,062,710 (up from 8,775,905 / +286,805 / 3.3%) - 140,981 deaths (+1,103) - avg daily: cases (+40,972) / deaths (+158)
• Russia: 8,377,984 (up from 8,112,999 / +264,985 / 3.3%) - 234,194 deaths (+7,730) - avg daily: cases (+37,855) / deaths (+1,104)
• Turkey: 8,009,010 (up from 7,826,983 / +182,027 / 2.3%) - 70,410 deaths (+1,493) - avg daily: cases (+26,004) / deaths (+213)
• Germany : 4,608,836 (up from 4,476,678 / +132,158 / 3.0%) - 95,734 deaths (+629) - avg daily: cases (+18,880) / deaths (+90)
• India: 34,273,300 (up from 34,175,468 / +97,832 / 0.3%) - 458,186 deaths (+3,917) - avg daily: cases (+13,976) / deaths (+560)
• Brazil: 21,804,094 (up from 21,723,559 / +80,535 / 0.4%) - 607,694 deaths (+2,237) - avg daily: cases (+11,505) / deaths (+320)
• Iran : 5,916,211 (up from 5,860,844 / +55,367 / 0.9%) - 126,126 deaths (+903) - avg daily: cases (+7,910) / deaths (+129)
• Belgium: 1,360,650 (up from 1,312,360 / +48,290 / 3.7%) - 25,994 deaths (+148) - avg daily: cases (+6,899) / deaths (+21)
• Netherlands : 2,163,794 (up from 2,115,936 / +47,858 / 2.3%) - 18,836 deaths (+86) - avg daily: cases (+6,837) / deaths (+12)
• France : 7,262,198 (up from 7,221,969 / +40,229 / 0.6%) - 118,613 deaths (+212) - avg daily: cases (+5,747) / deaths (+30)
• Italy : 4,767,440 (up from 4,737,462 / +29,978 / 0.6%) - 132,074 deaths (+272) - avg daily: cases (+4,283) / deaths (+39)
• Mexico: 3,805,765 (up from 3,781,661 / +24,104 / 0.6%) - 288,276 deaths (+2,017) - avg daily: cases (+3,443) / deaths (+288)
• Canada : 1,721,419 (up from 1,705,137 / +16,282 / 1.0%) - 29,016 deaths (+219) - avg daily: cases (+2,326) / deaths (+31)
• Ireland: 443,631 (up from 429,877 / +13,754 / 3.2%) - 5,436 deaths (+67) - avg daily: cases (+1,965) / deaths (+10)
• Spain : 5,011,148 (up from 4,997,732 / +13,416 / 0.3%) - 87,368 deaths (+236) - avg daily: cases (+1,917) / deaths (+34)
• South Korea : 364,700 (up from 351,899 / +12,801 / 3.6%) - 2,849 deaths (+83) - avg daily: cases (+1,829) / deaths (+12)
• Australia : 170,564 (up from 158,605 / +11,959 / 7.5%) - 1,735 deaths (+98) - avg daily: cases (+1,708) / deaths (+14)
• Columbia: 5,000,677 (up from 4,989,681 / +10,996 / 0.2%) - 127,258 deaths (+226) - avg daily: cases (+1,571) / deaths (+32)
• Switzerland : 872,558 (up from 862,411 / +10,147 / 1.2%) - 11,234 deaths (+53) - avg daily: cases (+1,450) / deaths (+8)
• Argentina: 5,288,259 (up from 5,279,818 / +8,441 / 0.2%) - 115,942 deaths (+119) - avg daily: cases (+1,206) / deaths (+17)
• Japan: 1,723,529 (up from 1,717,462 / +6,067 / 0.4%) - 18,275 deaths (+76) - avg daily: cases (+867) / deaths (+11)
• Sweden: 1,171,512 (up from 1,165,996 / +5,516 / 0.5%) - 15,025 deaths (+32) - avg daily: cases (+788) / deaths (+5)
• Israel: 1,327,306 (up from 1,322,652 / +4,654 / 0.4%) - 8,085 deaths (+39) - avg daily: cases (+665) / deaths (+6)
• Lebanon: 641,339 (up from 637,312 / +4,027 / 0.6%) - 8,495 deaths (+46) - avg daily: cases (+575) / deaths (+7)
• New Zealand: 6,429 (up from 5,639 / +790 / 14.0%) - 28 deaths (+0) - avg daily: cases (+113) / deaths (+0)

 

[belamyi]

So true....

Who was the English noble who described how that affected the entire British Empire?

I'm still waiting

You put me in Jeopardy!

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.

 

[KaraBulut]

A story that hasn't gotten much attention in 2021... Puerto Rico has one of the highest vaccination rates and lowest COVID-19 new case rates in the U.S.

82.0% of eligible Puerto Ricans have received at least one dose and 73.5% are fully vaccinated. Puerto Rico has 3.3 million people.

Weekly Case Numbers and Vaccination Rates for Puerto Rico:

• 07-Aug: 4,744 - 60.5% fully vaccinated
• 14-Aug: 6,077 - 61.2% fully vaccinated
• 21-Aug: 5,321 - 61.8% fully vaccinated
• 28-Aug: 5,760 - 62.6% fully vaccinated
• 04-Sep: 5,095 - 63.9% fully vaccinated
• 11-Sep: 2,807 - 66.6% fully vaccinated
• 18-Sep: 2,204 - 68.5% fully vaccinated
• 25-Sep: 1,577 - 69.9% fully vaccinated
• 02-Oct: 1,063 - 70.7% fully vaccinated
• 09-Oct: 1,197 - 71.5% fully vaccinated
• 16-Oct: 1,017 - 72.0% fully vaccinated
• 23-Oct: 733 - 73.2% fully vaccinated
• 24-Oct: 665 - 73.5% fully vaccinated

How Puerto Rico became the most vaccinated place in America [CNN]

"Best I can tell, they've done this largely by not tying vaccines to politics," Jha wrote last weekend. "They pay less attention to mainland politics. All their political parties actively support vaccinations. And generally, political [identity] & vaccinations are not intermixed."

 

[belamyi]

^ They are not America, that's how and why

 

[KaraBulut]

^ They are not America, that's how and why

That's somewhat true.

They are America and they are Americans and when you're in Puerto Rico, you get a clear picture that they have an individuals identity as Boricua but they also are very aware that are Americans, particularly because so many Puerto Ricans have family who live in the States.

But this is one time when the way we treat Puerto Rico as "foreigners" paid off from them. The Trump Administration really shit on Puerto Rico after hurricane Maria. That encouraged a more independent "sí, se puede" feeling because when the Yanquis didn't send help after the hurricane, the people on the island decided they would need to take care of themselves.

The hurricane also damaged the island's good, but under-funded, public health system. Puerto Rico also was hit hard early in the pandemic. But they have turned it around, gotten vaccinated and done was was best for themselves... while the mainland has been se fue al garete.

 

[belamyi]

.

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That's somewhat true.

That was my point

 

[KaraBulut]

Research supporting something that has been suspected based upon the reinfection rates during the Delta surge: people who had COVID-19 previously are more likely to be reinfected compared to vaccinated people.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection [CDC]

Study participants were over 5 times more likely to have COVID-19 if they were unvaccinated and had a prior infection

Today, CDC published new science reinforcing that vaccination is the best protection against COVID-19. In a new MMWR examining more than 7,000 people across 9 states who were hospitalized with COVID-like illness, CDC found that those who were unvaccinated and had a recent infection were 5 times more likely to have COVID-19 than those who were recently fully vaccinated and did not have a prior infection.

The data demonstrate that vaccination can provide a higher, more robust, and more consistent level of immunity to protect people from hospitalization for COVID-19 than infection alone for at least 6 months.

 

[rareboy]