On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[purina]

I want to speak to the manager! I got the wrong shot!

BREAKING NEWS on Delta: Moderna 2-dose better than Pfizer 2-dose

The mRNA vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech may be less effective than Moderna’s against the delta variant of the coronavirus, according to two reports posted on medRxiv on Sunday ahead of peer review.

 

[rareboy]

^ Hey I got double Astra Zeneca. Stop complaining

More on intranasal vaccines for Telstra's information.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health...tial-benefits-of-intranasal-covid-19-vaccines

 

[KaraBulut]

I want to speak to the manager! I got the wrong shot!

As long as you got one of the shots approved in the US, Canada or western Europe, you'll be fine.

BREAKING NEWS on Delta: Moderna 2-dose better than Pfizer 2-dose

One thing to note at the very bottom of the article:

Finally, while we did observe a recent reduction in vaccine effectiveness in July, we did not analyze the risk of infection relative to the date of vaccination. The reduced effectiveness could be due to waning immunity over time, the dynamic landscape of SARS-CoV-2 variants, or other factors that were not considered here.

This is a limitation in their study. We know that antibody levels drop in the months after vaccination. But antibodies are only one component of immunity. Because the vaccine "trains" the body to recognize the spike protein, the immune system should be able to crank up the antibody levels in the event of an exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

In metaphorical terms, if antibodies are like cookies in the cookie jar, just because the cookies disappear from the jar over time doesn't mean it's the end of the cookies- as long as someone has the recipe. The idea of vaccination is to expose your immune cells to the antigen so that it makes antibody but at the same time, we want special cells called memory cells to store the "recipe" to recognize the antigen again and make more antibody when needed.

I won't be surprised if we end up getting a booster at some point. Today, they announced that immune compromised people should get a third dose in the Fall. Because we have so many people who are refusing to get vaccinated (estimated at 90 million eligible people in the US), we're going to see more variants. The boosters we may get in the future will probably track closer to the variants that are in circulation.

If we can get vaccination numbers up closer to the 85-90% range (which is where we are in the > 65 year old group, by the way), it would lessen the chances that we end up getting boosters. Our healthcare workers would also be able to breathe a sigh of relief, too... they're really getting burned out.

 

[Telstra]

^ Hey I got double Astra Zeneca. Stop complaining

More on intranasal vaccines for Telstra's information.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health...tial-benefits-of-intranasal-covid-19-vaccines

yeah, why not make vaccines into spray and spray it into the nose.

 

[KaraBulut]

Maybe this will help put it to rest...

Studies note nasal spray vaccine failure against H1N1 flu [CIDRAP]

Two studies published last week by Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other researchers noted that the live attenuated influenza vaccine—a nasal spray option—failed to adequately protect kids from the 2009 H1N1 strain in 2013-14, when it was the predominant circulating strain...

Of note, these intranasal vaccines are live virus that has been weakened (attenuated). The mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) and protein subunit (Novavax) vaccines don't contain virus. Live attenuated virus intranasal vaccines haven't been very successful and they can cause disease in people with weakened immune systems.

 

[ruggerladirish]

Several companies are working on a "vaccine passport" that would pull your information from the State vaccine registry. It would have a barcode that you could keep on your phone to validate your credentials. Several countries have successfully implemented this and it would serve as an entry pass into venues that require vaccination.


Because we have several States that are blocking the vaccine passport effort, there's not much chance of this being implemented unless private companies take the initiative and require it.

We have this in the EU with each member state allowed its own policies on how to operate. It is stored on an app with all details including date of full vaccination, vaccine administered etc. In Ireland, it is required for indoor dining (even including fast food joints), visiting a bar/pub and attending indoor performances.

Has led inevitably to debate about a two-tier society, but there is very little vaccine hesitancy here.

 

[KaraBulut]

We have this in the EU with each member state allowed its own policies on how to operate. It is stored on an app with all details including date of full vaccination, vaccine administered etc. In Ireland, it is required for indoor dining (even including fast food joints), visiting a bar/pub and attending indoor performances.

Has led inevitably to debate about a two-tier society, but there is very little vaccine hesitancy here.

These apps were first deployed in the eastern Asia countries where governments have a stronger hold on the populace. Out of curiosity, in Ireland how has the vaccine passport been received by business owners and the public?

I noted a story a while back where Eric Clapton was refusing to play venues that required proof of vaccination. I remember thinking, "Oh, that's smart considering most of your fan base is over age 60" . I also noted that no concern promoters were shedding tears over the loss of a Clapton concert.

 

[Araucaria]

I noted a story a while back where Eric Clapton was refusing to play venues that required proof of vaccination. I remember thinking, "Oh, that's smart considering most of your fan base is over age 60" . I also noted that no concern promoters were shedding tears over the loss of a Clapton concert.

I noticed the article said Clapton was inspired by Van Morrison (someone whose music I like and admire), who has become an anti-vaxxer.

Ever notice how many aging straight male rockers go over to the dark side?

 

[belamyi]

Vaccine passports simply come with the vaccine shot itself: if you have no problem with one, the other just comes as a matter of course. The day after I received my second dose they wasted the time to call to inform me that I could go online to get my passport to be able to go on holiday.

 

[belamyi]

China growth forecasts slashed as Delta variant spreads across the country

 

[rareboy]

 

[KaraBulut]

China growth forecasts slashed as Delta variant spreads across the country

One of the things that these articles about the Delta variant spreading across China don't seem to cover: the effectiveness of Chinese vaccines against Delta variant.

China hasn't released details about whether their vaccines are effective against Delta variant. The fact that Delta has spread so quickly across Chinese provinces hints that their vaccines aren't providing full immunity against Delta.

Why is this detail important? Because China sold or donated vaccines to other countries, particularly countries that had trading relationships with the U.S. This includes many Central American and South American countries.

Explainer: Are Chinese COVID-19 shots effective against the Delta variant? [Reuters]

Many countries from China to Indonesia and Brazil rely heavily on Chinese vaccines to inoculate their people against COVID-19, but there are growing concerns about whether they provide enough protection against the Delta variant, first identified in India...

China has not provided vaccine effectiveness results against the variant based on large-scale data in clinical trials or real-world use, nor offered detailed information from lab tests, but Chinese experts are urging people to get inoculated as soon as possible...

Researchers found that Chinese vaccines are somewhat effective in reducing the risk of symptomatic and severe cases caused by Delta, Zhong Nanshan, a epidemiologist who helped shape China's COVID-19 response, told reporters.

Coincidentally, China did announce that they are testing a new "mixed vaccine":
China approves first mixed-vaccine trial as Delta spreads [France24]

 

[belamyi]

Nebraska is America's North Korea

 

[belamyi]

One of the things that these articles about the Delta variant spreading across China don't seem to cover: the effectiveness of Chinese vaccines against Delta variant.

China hasn't released details about whether their vaccines are effective against Delta variant. The fact that Delta has spread so quickly across Chinese provinces hints that their vaccines aren't providing full immunity against Delta.

Why is this detail important? Because China sold or donated vaccines to other countries, particularly countries that had trading relationships with the U.S. This includes many Central American and South American countries.

Explainer: Are Chinese COVID-19 shots effective against the Delta variant? [Reuters]


Coincidentally, China did announce that they are testing a new "mixed vaccine":
China approves first mixed-vaccine trial as Delta spreads [France24]

But was not old news that China's vaccine provided only about 50% protection about the first variants, why should there be specific reports about the delta: should that vaccine work better against a more aggresive variant than against milder ones?

 

[Kahaih]

I noticed the article said Clapton was inspired by Van Morrison (someone whose music I like and admire), who has become an anti-vaxxer.

Ever notice how many aging straight male rockers go over to the dark side?

LOL
'has become an anti-vaxxer', or continues to be anti-establishment?

Didn't Clapton have a hit song about shooting a sheriff?



Look at how governments and medical/pharmaceutical industries have handled criminalising and decriminalising recreational marijuana if you are still wondering why a lot of people don't trust them.

 

[belamyi]

Ever notice how many aging straight male rockers go over to the dark side?

I thought that has always been part of their bratty business act?

Wait, you mean they are doddering and now they DO believe what they sell to the public that they are for?

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, recall Dylan's car ad campaigns

 

[KaraBulut]

But was not old news that China's vaccine provided only about 50% protection about the first variants, why should there be specific reports about the delta: should that vaccine work better against a more aggresive variant than against milder ones?

That was true of some of the original studies. We got some additional studies from outside of China that helped explain some of the inconsistencies:

• There are two Chinese vaccines that are in broad use: Sinovac and Sinopharm.
• The effectiveness against COVID-19 infection varied from 50% to 80% across the different studies.
• The good news is that people in South America and Indonesia who received the Chinese vaccines had low rates of hospitalizations. This implies that people receiving the vaccines were suspectible to SARS-CoV-2 infection but their cases weren't severe enough to put them in the hospital.
• The bad news is that antibody levels after the Chinese vaccines dropped off quickly- as soon as 6 weeks after the shot, antibody levels had dropped by 50%.

The Chinese vaccines might have been good enough to slow down the epidemic of the original viruses where the R[SUb]0[/SUb] was 1-2. The new variants have an R[SUB]0[/SUB] between 5-9. So, countries that were relying upon Chinese vaccines have two problems- a highly contagious variant and a population whose antibody levels are dropping fast.

 

[belamyi]

^ Exactly: so one does not expect to fare better precisely now, when even the Western vaccines are not that perfect either.

 

[KaraBulut]

^ Exactly: so one does not expect to fare better precisely now, when even the Western vaccines are not that perfect either.

Honestly, it's been hit and miss. The "hit" is that the successful vaccines targeted the spike protein that enables the virus to infect the human cell and cause most of the calamitous disease processes. A "miss" because the incomplete vaccination of the population has favored mutations in the virus that allowed it to infect younger people, including children.

The US has tolerated anti-science and anti-vaccine forces in society for some time. And here we are at the mercy of those same forces...

 

[ruggerladirish]

These apps were first deployed in the eastern Asia countries where governments have a stronger hold on the populace. Out of curiosity, in Ireland how has the vaccine passport been received by business owners and the public?

I noted a story a while back where Eric Clapton was refusing to play venues that required proof of vaccination. I remember thinking, "Oh, that's smart considering most of your fan base is over age 60" . I also noted that no concern promoters were shedding tears over the loss of a Clapton concert.

When first proposed there was opposition from businesses citing extra admin/labour costs (photo ID is also required, phone numbers must be recorded for contact tracing). Pub owners too were upset at the prospect of refusing entry to long-standing customers, particularly in rural areas where those customers would also be neighbours. But it all settled down when it was clear there were o options/alternatives available for re-opening businesses that had been closed for over 500 days.

Some objections from the public. Older persons who do not have smart phones, for example. This was remedied by allowing hard copy Vaccine Certs plus Photo ID. But objections have been relatively muted. Among the older age cohorts here, vaccine uptake has been <90%.