On-Topic 47% of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

[Benvolio]

Nice stuff -- thanks.

I'm happy to see that the first article correctly points out "dividends, capital gains, [are] unearned income", since so-called conservatives here love to hate unearned income.

Who has spoken against unearned income? The charts are misleading in failing to treat payroll taxes as a separate fund.

 

[BostonPirate]

Who has spoken against unearned income? The charts are misleading in failing to treat payroll taxes as a separate fund.

revenue is revenue.

What you propose would be intentionally misleading.

Of course you also believe that Obama raised taxes, in spite of the fact that he reduced them for the middle class 19 times.

 

[Kulindahr]

I guess unearned income is only bad when it comes from the government.

 

[Benvolio]

Patroll taxes do not support the federal government.

 

[BostonPirate]

Patroll taxes do not support the federal government.

Neither to all the tax cuts for the rich, all the offshore tax shelters and havens Romney and the elite use, all of the corporate welfare that the tax code has in it for big oil, still making record breaking profits... the list goes on and on.

You are not mentally equipped or educated enough to have this discussion if you think the comment above is valid. If you DON'T and said it anyway, then you are baiting and lying.

In either case?

You are filling this thread with nonsense

 

[JayHawk]

Great Post East Med!

This is very telling and the epitome of our problem:

As you can see in the golden era of the US when everyone has a manufacturing job and we were booming the corporations paid for the infrastructure via a tax system while average citizens contributed some but not a vast majority... then look what happens. Corporations line up next to politicians and get the American worker to pay for them while they yank the pension and retirement rug out from under the worker.

Excellent time frame and demonstrative proof that while the haul from income tax has remained the same the corporations have ran from the ship while they are sinking it.

Now both parties are equally manipulated by corporations and by their lobbyist on K street. Except which party is more likely to pass legislation that benefits the corporations more than the worker?

 

[JayHawk]

This is another telling graph... Romney advocates cutting the meager and almost ridiculous amount we spend on the list at the bottom versus actually looking at reform for the three biggest programs.

 

[Benvolio]

Mone from the government is earned, but then confiscated and given to someone who did not earn it (except Social Security) Interest and dividends, are income from money earned and saved.

 

[BostonPirate]

IF 10 percent of the people of the nation who hold 90 percent of the wealth only pay 60 percent of the income taxes, then the wealth is being redistributed by the Gov't in an upward direction to the top, and the facts show that this is precisely the case.

 

[Benvolio]

How is income being distributed upward? you forget that wealthy people give enourmous amounts to charity, which would in part explain any differences you see in the two percentages.

 

[HenryReardon]

BTW, Henry -- for someone who supposedly has a libertarian bent, your position is amazing. Any decent libertarian would be cheering that 47% of the populace has been freed of the loss of chunks of their income via coercion from the rest, and be looking for ways to increase that number. My problem as a libertarian with the fact that 47% don't pay any federal income tax is that it's only 47% -- it should be much larger! We should be aiming for a nation where no one at all has to pay federal income tax, so how about we try to make that 47% into 50% in the very near future? THAT would be the way to go, for liberty.

Which is why I've always supported the Fair TAx and still do. Abolish taxes on income and tax money only when it is spent.

 

[BostonPirate]

How is income being distributed upward? you forget that wealthy people give enourmous amounts to charity, which would in part explain any differences you see in the two percentages.

I intentionally made my statement as simple as possible so you could understand it. Dispute the numbers I use if you can, but the facts are the facts.

If 90 percent of the wealth is held by the top ten, then we will have a revenue neutral tax system if the top ten percent also don't pay 90 percent of the taxes. It is a simple elegant economic reality.

 

[Kulindahr]

How is income being distributed upward? you forget that wealthy people give enourmous amounts to charity, which would in part explain any differences you see in the two percentages.

How?



http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...me-Tax/page2?p=8431482&viewfull=1#post8431482

If any of that "charity" is for religious outfits, it doesn't count.

 

[Kulindahr]

Which is why I've always supported the Fair TAx and still do. Abolish taxes on income and tax money only when it is spent.

Which is punitive on those with smaller incomes, and thus not "fair" at all -- unless you're going to have an individual exemption inversely proportional to income.

 

[Kulindahr]

I intentionally made my statement as simple as possible so you could understand it. Dispute the numbers I use if you can, but the facts are the facts.

If 90 percent of the wealth is held by the top ten, then we will have a revenue neutral tax system if the top ten percent also don't pay 90 percent of the taxes. It is a simple elegant economic reality.

I think you mixed up your negatives in the last sentence.

But I'll add evidence that we have a trickle-up economy: if the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since JFK, it would be about $20/hr right now. It isn't -- but the incomes of those who sit at the top have risen dramatically. Conclusion? Easy: the income is being taken from those who actually make wealth and given to those who only provide money to make wealth with.

 

[opinterph]

I have to say the graphs posted have been excellent. If I may, I'd like to post a set from another source.
The results appear to be similar to the sources posted, but with added analysis.

Here is another link from the Center on Budget Policy and Priorities that speaks more directly to our discussion:

Misconceptions And Realities About Who Pays Taxes​

 

[BostonPirate]

I think that one way the water has been muddied on this topic is in the difference that the two sides of the aisle speak of percentages.

The link above seems to highlight that.

The percentage of total taxes paid is one thing. The tax rate per category is another.

 

[HenryReardon]

Which is punitive on those with smaller incomes, and thus not "fair" at all -- unless you're going to have an individual exemption inversely proportional to income.

If you'd studied the Fair Tax at all, you would know that it is anything but punative to the poor.
In fact the Fair Tax levels the playing field completely when it comes to income.
Don't take my word for it, read the Fair Tax books, particularly those by Neal Boortz.

 

[Benvolio]

Neither to all the tax cuts for the rich, all the offshore tax shelters and havens Romney and the elite use, all of the corporate welfare that the tax code has in it for big oil, still making record breaking profits... the list goes on and on.

You are not mentally equipped or educated enough to have this discussion if you think the comment above is valid. If you DON'T and said it anyway, then you are baiting and lying.

In either case?

You are filling this thread with nonsense

You don't understand what payroll taxes are at all.

 

[Benvolio]

I think you mixed up your negatives in the last sentence.

But I'll add evidence that we have a trickle-up economy: if the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since JFK, it would be about $20/hr right now. It isn't -- but the incomes of those who sit at the top have risen dramatically. Conclusion? Easy: the income is being taken from those who actually make wealth and given to those who only provide money to make wealth with.

If you add some of the additional burdens imposed upon employers, you will see the minimum wage in a different light. Employers also pay FICA and medicare tax for benefit of employees. Many pay health care. Unemployment insurance tax. Liability insurance for negligence of employees. Etc, etc, All these are part of the employers cost of labor, and reduce what the employer can pay and remain competitive and profitable. They also make overseas employees look more attractive.