On-Topic 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

[xbuzzerx]

The difference is the Jews are not trying to destroy all Palestinians and would have let the Palestinians live in peace in their own country. The Euros wanted to take all of the land from the Native Americans and wanted to ice them all.

Please explain to me the difference between what you just said and reservations.

Also I am aware of Ghost Dance but that was along time ago. The majority of Native Americans did not want to murder all Euros and non Natives. Point in fact the two societies are not comparable. The Native Americans were a pro gay, pro female and reasonable civilization where as the Pallys kill gays, unsubmissive women and are rabid theocrats.

What does time have to do with it? All you saying "that was a long time ago" tells me is that if you were alive in 1840 you'd be saying the Indians don't deserve to have their rights considered either because the U.S. has tried to make peace with them many times (i.e. treaties they repeatedly broke by refusing to stop white squatters from going over the border and settling on it, and then using those settlements as the excuse to demand more land cessions) and they're just hellbent on war and blood.

 

[Kulindahr]

so when did the pallys " usurp " this land ?

Depends on how you look at it. Really it's just the currents of empire sweeping people around.

 

[nafhoosier]

Depends on how you look at it. Really it's just the currents of empire sweeping people around.

Today, a Hamas leader returned to Gaza City pledging to never recognize Israel and free Palestine "inch-by-inch".

Kids dressed in military uniforms and martyrs carried mock scud missiles in celebration of the returning Hamas leader.

Nice, peace loving Hamas, huh?

Remember, Hamas does not want ANY part of Israel to exist. How can anyone attempt to negotiate with people refusing your own self determination?

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/08/15778557-heros-welcome-as-exiled-hamas-leader-returns-to-gaza?lite

 

[xbuzzerx]

Today, a Hamas leader returned to Gaza City pledging to never recognize Israel and free Palestine "inch-by-inch".

Kids dressed in military uniforms and martyrs carried mock scud missiles in celebration of the returning Hamas leader.

Nice, peace loving Hamas, huh?

Remember, Hamas does not want ANY part of Israel to exist. How can anyone attempt to negotiate with people refusing your own self determination?

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/08/15778557-heros-welcome-as-exiled-hamas-leader-returns-to-gaza?lite

Since it apparently escaped both Mariatenbre AND yourself, this thread is not about saying Hamas is great. However Hamas does not represent all or even most of Palestinians by most accounts so.... if your defense of the status quo is "Hamas is bad" the issues in discussion remain.

Repeatedly beating the dead horse of Hamas not being a huggy-friendly organization worthy of a Peace Prize (Israel's gov't isn't either btw) has no relevancy really when the issues impacting Palestinians as a whole are not just affecting Hamas membership.

 

[iwantbig]

yeah i think the topic is about israel continual encroaching their settlements on palestinian land !
my original comment was prompted by an israeli woman who stood on a hillside and quoted that a " god " told someone several thousand years ago that all he could see from this point was to be his families land .
It seems that this is the mentality that many use to justify ignoring borders set in more recent history.
its not about Hamas or whether israel has a right to exist or the constant excuse that the borders that were set were defendable.

 

[nafhoosier]

Since it apparently escaped both Mariatenbre AND yourself, this thread is not about saying Hamas is great. However Hamas does not represent all or even most of Palestinians by most accounts so.... if your defense of the status quo is "Hamas is bad" the issues in discussion remain.

Repeatedly beating the dead horse of Hamas not being a huggy-friendly organization worthy of a Peace Prize (Israel's gov't isn't either btw) has no relevancy really when the issues impacting Palestinians as a whole are not just affecting Hamas membership.

I thought this was originally a thread about criticizing Israel's settlements and ending the occupation as well.....

Until the inevitable "Israel must be wiped off the map" comment was made earlier (then deleted) and then the legitimacy of the ENTIRE state of Israel of course is questioned.

Oh well, since we veered off topic anyway, I figured bringing up Hamas's tactics would have been fair game.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I thought this was originally a thread about criticizing Israel's settlements and ending the occupation as well.....

Until the inevitable "Israel must be wiped off the map" comment was made earlier (then deleted) and then the legitimacy of the ENTIRE state of Israel of course is questioned.

Oh well, since we veered off topic anyway, I figured bringing up Hamas's tactics would have been fair game.

I don't think Hamas is "off topic" per se, I do however think that defending anything Israel does with "well look at Hamas, they're bad" doesn't cut it when Israel isn't exactly just doing police work and arresting dangerous Hamas terorrists. They're engaging in policies which (depending on your interpretation of their motives) is either collective punishment or a rather naked attempt to steal more land permanently under the guise of "defending themselves from terrorism."

 

[Centexfarmer]

It seems to me that Israel prefers to do whatever they want, then ask for "permission" after the fact.

Expecting FULL WELL, the United States Foreign Policy is going to 'back them" no matter what.


And even if the U.S. doesn't, Israel still has enough American Made fire power, to make whatever decision any current U.S. Presidential Administration makes irrelevant, so it doesn't really matter in the long term at this point.

So it kind of begs the question: If it's proven (at some point) that Iran has "the bomb" and Israel flies American made fighter jets and "glasses Tehran" to "defend their position in the Middle East as a "Jewish State" will any of this matter?

Damned straight it will!

Personally?

I think that Israel is being irresponsible.

 

[Laufey]

I'm pretty sure that Israel will attack Iran in the coming months. They don't want the estimation of how long it will take Iran to make their first nuclear bomb to run out without doing anything about it.

It will only be air-strikes on nuclear facilities. Whether that will end up in a full blown war or not is difficult to say.

It's very hypocritical of them of course to think they should be the only middle eastern nation allowed to have nukes.

 

[Benvolio]

They cannot risk their lives and national existence to avoid you opinion of hypocrisy. Israel probably has the bomb, but they have not used it. Is is hard to be confident that Iran will not use it, and Israel should not take that chance in the light of Iran's repeated threats of destruction.
But it is not clear that Israel can end the Iran nuclear threat, which is spread out and said to be largely underground. By waiting, it has allowed Iran to become very powerfull in conventional weapons. If it attacks, it may be compeled to make an all out nuclear attack with everything it has. Anything less will suject Israel to massive retaliation, joined by Syria, humas, Hesbolla, Egypt and others.

 

[Laufey]

Are you talking about the same Iran which hasn't started a war in over 200 years?

Yeah we should definitely fear them more than countries like Israel and the US

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm pretty sure that Israel will attack Iran in the coming months. They don't want the estimation of how long it will take Iran to make their first nuclear bomb to run out without doing anything about it.

It will only be air-strikes on nuclear facilities. Whether that will end up in a full blown war or not is difficult to say.

It's very hypocritical of them of course to think they should be the only middle eastern nation allowed to have nukes.

Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.

 

[Laufey]

Again... Iran's crimes in modern history are minor to countries like Israel and US.

And everybody should know by know that the quote on Iran's president about wiping out Israel was taken out of context... although some Islamphobic people have a hard time letting go of it.

 

[JustMe5]

Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.

That president who the media portrays as "advocating genocide" is actually of Jewish heritage.

 

[Kulindahr]

Again... Iran's crimes in modern history are minor to countries like Israel and US.

And everybody should know by know that the quote on Iran's president about wiping out Israel was taken out of context... although some Islamphobic people have a hard time letting go of it.

Which quote would that be -- the one in an interview, the one at a US university, or one of the ones at the UN? You can claim one of those was taken out of context, but he's said it more than once, in different ways.

 

[Kulindahr]

That president who the media portrays as "advocating genocide" is actually of Jewish heritage.

"Portrays"?

He portrays himself that way, with statements like Israel must be wipe out, Israel will be eliminated, and so on.

 

[Laufey]

He wants Israel in it's currents form not to exist anymore... but has never said it should be wiped out with warfare.

I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.

 

[Kulindahr]

I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.

I don't comment on jokes.

 

[JustMe5]

He portrays himself that way, with statements like Israel must be wipe out, Israel will be eliminated, and so on.

Does this look like someone who's advocating genocide against Jews?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.

Making policy decisions around the rhetoric statements of a powerless figurehead who is just a crowd-pleaser for the people actually in power seems like a mistake to me. Or a pretext for policies that aren't actually supported by true need.