On-Topic 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

[Mariatenebre]

False. They are. When you are threatened, and forcefully relocated, you respond with violence. Especially in the Middle East. It's perfectly understandable and natural. If we, the uber enlightened West, wanted it any other way, we would not just dump Israel on everyone there and then whistle a tune of appreciation to whatever violent act they deemed fit to commit.



Wait, are you seriously not seeing the lack of logic and the intellectual dishonesty in your two opening sentences there? By your own logic, Native Americans are ENTITLED to a chunk of this continent, because it was stolen from them.

The white man came, stole the red man's land and drove him to near extinction. The red man has ALWAYS been here, quite possibly thousands of years longer than Jews occupied any territory anywhere. Yet the white man feels no guilt and has made not a single step into recognizing any Native American state. Because it's ok to force OTHERS to accept somebody else's claims, but it is not ok to concede any territory to the victim of a genocide YOU did.

By the way, I love how you jump hoops to make it somehow always different with every example of your double standards. Somehow Israel is unique, and they deserve everything, and are beyond criticism.

dishonest

and pathetic

and kinda funny

but not really

85%!

The difference is the Jews were the original inhabitants of Israel and still had a large presence there. The Arabs were not the original inhabitants there but displaced many Jews in the Middle Ages forcing them to flee elsewhere. The Native Americans were the original inhabitants of the Americas but were diaplced by the White Christian Europeans. The treatment of the White Americans of the Native Americans was vastly different then the treatment of the Israelis to the Palestinians

I support giving the Native Americans more land because they are a civilized Pagan people. The Palestinians could have had their land long ago but Jew hatred prevents that.

{Text removed by moderator}

 

[Mariatenebre]

Oh and here is another great video I found about the so called "indigenous Palestinians."

 

[Rolyo85]

I really thought I was within the rules here

The logic of the above posts is lacking. The Native Americans owned this land and the White Man stole it from them. By the logic of Mariatenebre's opinion of Israel, the should be given a sovereign state on the territory currently occupied by the US. And then anything they do to enlarge it should be fair because "they deserve it".

 

[Mariatenebre]

I really thought I was within the rules here

The logic of the above posts is lacking. The Native Americans owned this land and the White Man stole it from them. By the logic of Mariatenebre's opinion of Israel, the should be given a sovereign state on the territory currently occupied by the US. And then anything they do to enlarge it should be fair because "they deserve it".

Did you even bother watching said video I posted. The Pallys are not indigenous to the area. They are Arabs from Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia etc. Palestine is an invented nation for the purpose of causing jihad against Jews. The Jews are the ones who have historically owned this land and are the indigenous peoples. They have tried to make peace with the Pallys countless times. However their whole point of existing as a nation is to destroy Israel. This situation is very different then what happened to the civilized Native Americans and the invading Europeans. In fact it is these Arabs who are the invaders.

 

[Laufey]

Maria: So I guess the Israelis should give some of their land back to Arab countries like Egypt and Syria?

 

[Rolyo85]

Did you even bother watching said video I posted. The Pallys are not indigenous to the area. They are Arabs from Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia etc. Palestine is an invented nation for the purpose of causing jihad against Jews. The Jews are the ones who have historically owned this land and are the indigenous peoples. They have tried to make peace with the Pallys countless times. However their whole point of existing as a nation is to destroy Israel. This situation is very different then what happened to the civilized Native Americans and the invading Europeans. In fact it is these Arabs who are the invaders.

I am not talking about Arabs and Palestinians. I am talking about Jews and Native Americans. WHY do Jews deserve their land back, but Native Americans don't? Please respond to THAT specific question or stop wasting everybody's time.

 

[Mariatenebre]

I am not talking about Arabs and Palestinians. I am talking about Jews and Native Americans. WHY do Jews deserve their land back, but Native Americans don't? Please respond to THAT specific question or stop wasting everybody's time.

Well in this country legally Native American citizens are entitled equal protection under the law and it is illegal to discriminate against them. Although personally I do support giving Native Americans land the few that are remaining as well as more power over the lands that they own.

Maria: So I guess the Israelis should give some of their land back to Arab countries like Egypt and Syria?

No because that land is theirs. The Egyptians and Syrians do not have claim to this land.

 

[Kulindahr]

Did you even bother watching said video I posted. The Pallys are not indigenous to the area. They are Arabs from Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia etc. Palestine is an invented nation for the purpose of causing jihad against Jews. The Jews are the ones who have historically owned this land and are the indigenous peoples. They have tried to make peace with the Pallys countless times. However their whole point of existing as a nation is to destroy Israel. This situation is very different then what happened to the civilized Native Americans and the invading Europeans. In fact it is these Arabs who are the invaders.

So you and the video really expect us to believe that no one at all lived there except Jews until the British, under the Mandate, decided they needed manual laborers and imported some?

 

[Laufey]

No because that land is theirs. The Egyptians and Syrians do not have claim to this land.

Modern Israel reaches further than the ancient one...

Everything south of Beer Sheva was not inhabited by the Israelites.

Considering history it would make more sense for Egypt and Jordan to have borders with each other... instead of Israel being big enough to separate the two apart.

 

[Benvolio]

You are right. We should all leave and give the Indians back their land. In an orderly fashion, now, most recent arrivals leave first.

 

[Rolyo85]

Well in this country legally Native American citizens are entitled equal protection under the law and it is illegal to discriminate against them. Although personally I do support giving Native Americans land the few that are remaining as well as more power over the lands that they own.

Not more power. A sovereign state. Nothing less will do. It is THEIR land. Americans have no claim to it. Do you agree, or don't you?

Also, do you agree that since it is their land that you guys stole, if they had the military strength, they'd be right to bomb the crap out of you and push you into the seas to reclaim their stolen land? I mean, you support this in regards to Israel, so do you support it for the Native Americans?

 

[Kulindahr]

Modern Israel reaches further than the ancient one...

Everything south of Beer Sheva was not inhabited by the Israelites.

Solomon had stables at Kadesh-Barnea, which was right on the current border between Israel and Egypt, and there were "watch towers" -- small military garrisons built around a tower -- in the area as well. I had the frustrating pleasure of translating facsimiles of ostraca which turned out to be brief military memos sent north from Kadesh and some of those outposts as one pharaoh advanced on Beersheva.

So while it was sparsely settled, ancient Israel claimed quite a bit south of Beesheva. For that matter, they held land both farther east and farther north than what present-day Israel claims, including most of Lebanon and a fair portion of Jordan.

 

[Kulindahr]

Not more power. A sovereign state. Nothing less will do. It is THEIR land. Americans have no claim to it. Do you agree, or don't you?

Also, do you agree that since it is their land that you guys stole, if they had the military strength, they'd be right to bomb the crap out of you and push you into the seas to reclaim their stolen land? I mean, you support this in regards to Israel, so do you support it for the Native Americans?

I'd have to decide which side to be on.

 

[kallipolis]

Not more power. A sovereign state. Nothing less will do. It is THEIR land. Americans have no claim to it. Do you agree, or don't you?

Also, do you agree that since it is their land that you guys stole, if they had the military strength, they'd be right to bomb the crap out of you and push you into the seas to reclaim their stolen land? I mean, you support this in regards to Israel, so do you support it for the Native Americans?

Sound logic.

This is the problem for the Zionist argument in assuming that their claims to exclusive ownership of a strip of land on this planet is based solely on a shared occupation, with other tribal communities prior to 70 AD when Rome quashed the Jewish rebellion, sacked Jerusalem, destroyed The Second Temple and dispersed the Jews of Judea and Galilee to the farthest ends of the Roman Empire.

Using Zionist reasoning we Greeks could claim ownership to most of Southern Italy, or Alexander the Great's empire stretching east into the Indian Kush including what we now call Israel, and Palestine or, even the lands that were once part of the Greek administered Byzantine Empire which collapsed under the weight of the Ottoman invasion in the 15th century.

Not a few of the posts on this thread are definitely highly partisan led by anti Islam sentiment calculated to assume that non Jews were not present living in what is now called Israel at any time before, during or, after the Jews were forcibly dispersed by Rome.....which would ignore the facts of history.

I quote a few pertinent paragraphs on the matter of the Arab population of this region per this article:http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

1. The nature of the data do not permit precise conclusions about the Arab population of Palestine in Ottoman and British times, and the relative contributions of natural increase and immigration, imprecision in the counts and other issues.

2. Palestine was not an empty land when Zionist immigration began. The lowest estimates claim there were about 410,000 Arab Muslims and Christians in Palestine in 1893. A Zionist estimate claimed there were over 600,000 Arabs in Palestine. in the 1890s. At this time, the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine was still negligible by all accounts. It is unlikely that Palestinian immigration prior to this period was due to Zionist development. Though uncertainty exists concerning the precise numbers of Arabs living in the areas that later became Israel, it is very unlikely that the claims of Joan Peters that there were less than 100,000 Arabs living there are valid.

3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs. For a detailed discussion that focuses on this myth, please refer to Zionism and its Impact.


It should be noted that as long as Iran continues to finance, and arm militant organisations in Palestine towards destabilising Israel a political solution to this long ongoing human tragedy will never be realised.

 

[kallipolis]

Solomon had stables at Kadesh-Barnea, which was right on the current border between Israel and Egypt, and there were "watch towers" -- small military garrisons built around a tower -- in the area as well. I had the frustrating pleasure of translating facsimiles of ostraca which turned out to be brief military memos sent north from Kadesh and some of those outposts as one pharaoh advanced on Beersheva.

So while it was sparsely settled, ancient Israel claimed quite a bit south of Beesheva. For that matter, they held land both farther east and farther north than what present-day Israel claims, including most of Lebanon and a fair portion of Jordan.

Rome occupied England, and Wales (Anglia and Cambria) for some 500 years does that mean that Rome's successor, the Republic of Italy has a valid claim to ownership of England and Wales?

 

[Rolyo85]

Yeah, my more nationalist countrymen will be happy to know we can claim back Macedonia, Serbia, Romania and some others ^_^

 

[kallipolis]

Yeah, my more nationalist countrymen will be happy to know we can claim back Macedonia, Serbia, Romania and some others ^_^

I presume you are referring to the Austrian-Hungarian Empire?

 

[Rolyo85]

No, the Bulgarian Empire which was the sole biggest rival of Byzantium before the Ottoman Empire conquered both of them. In fact, our mutual distrust and centuries-long enmity is perhaps the single greatest reason for the Ottoman invasion being successful. We were too busy fighting each other to stop them.

 

[Kulindahr]

Rome occupied England, and Wales (Anglia and Cambria) for some 500 years does that mean that Rome's successor, the Republic of Italy has a valid claim to ownership of England and Wales?

What the frak does that have to do with my pointing out some facts????

 

[Benvolio]

The Jews have Israel now. So the question is whether anyone has a superior right to it. It is not the case that they are asking to get it based upon some ancient right. They do have it. Remember, much of the disputed land was Jordanian until Israel was attacked and gained possession of it. I don't think Jordan wants it and the troublesome Palestinians back. H