Active Duty's Axl tattoo controversy

[easyroad]

Despite this thread having stopped being a discussion a long time ago and now being a platform for people to feel self-righteous, I have a question to ask.

There's a post, back there on page 1, where Dink mentions a conversation with Axl and the guy's explanation for each of his tattoos. For reference, here it is below:

I just received a call from Ax after asking him to call me. I did not mention this sudden outrage of his tattoos on all the blogs to him. I simply engaged him in conversation which led to tattoos and then I asked him to explain his tattoos to me. Here is what the words on his chest say:

"Lo, there do I see my father,
lo there do I see my mother, my
sister and my brother, lo they do
call to me.
They bid me to take my place
amongst them in the halls of
Valhalla, a warriors death will be mine."

He heard this in the movie "The 13th Warrior" which you can see a clip from here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQnW4sciFy4

The tattoo on the other side is a variation of a celtic cross with the hammer of Thor defending it. He was starting to discover his Irish heritage at the time and thought it was cool. He always liked Thor so he added Thor's hammer to protect the cross.

He did get these tattoos before he was of legal age in a garage of a friend of a friend. The tattoo artist told him that the 14 and 88 were prayers from the Kolbrin Bible which he told Axl was the "Celtic Bible". Believing him, he let him go ahead. When I asked him if he'd ever heard that these two numbers are often associated with Neo Nazi groups his response was, "no, why? Are they?"

The initials on his rib cage are N N for an ex girlfriend that he was deeply in love with at the time.

When we talked about the spider web tattoo he said he just thought it was cool and so he got one. When I asked him if he realized at the time that it was sometimes a symbol by convicts to denote they killed someone he said, "I have heard something about that before, but I got it because I thought it was cool. I haven't ever killed anybody."

I believe him and I believe that he was on an exploration at the time of his Irish heritage and was mislead by the garage tattoo artist who may have believed what he was telling Axl himself.

As far as I'm concerned and from being around him, knowing how sexually open he is and how sweet his demeanor is, I believe him. He just doesn't strike me as the type and I won't badger him any further on the subject.

Am I the only one that didn't feel outrage after reading it for the first time? I honestly thought this made sense. While the 14 and 88 explanation was a bit weird, nothing else struck me as odd. All I saw was outrage, no one spent much time in this, it seemed like a jump to conclusions to me...

***

P.S.: if you feel like posting that I'm stupid, a racist, or that I "defend anyone with a cute face", then please don't even fucking bother. I am posting my honest point of view and I can think by myself. I'm trying to understand your point of view and I'd appreciate it if you can answer in a civilized way instead of continuing the pathetic circle-jerk this thread has become.

 

[jobezee1]

That's so common a troll statement that it's actually on the Troll Bingo card.



Well, of course YOU'RE not offended. You're a racist, as your posts make abundantly clear. Why would you be offended by racist tattoos?



Not all statements that begin this way are troll statements, but they are on the Troll Bingo card, because they usually are.



Yes, that would be the usual bullshit racists spout when you talk about racism. You may not have had what you count as a break, but in general being white counts in your favor and being nonwhite counts against you. You have benefited from white privilege whether you've noticed or not. And of course, racists seldom do, because that privilege is transparent to you: any time the unfair advantages are taken away, you howl about "reverse racism" or start calling people "N-word lover" or some such.

Typical liberal BS, that's all I've got to say about this post. Condemns folks as "racist" if they don't agree with them while they practice the same assumptions (meaning you don't know me Jack) and conclusions about other folks.

Believe it or not, I met PLENTY of racists OF ALL COLORS in prison. Probably the most racist environment I've ever been in. I got along with everyone because I treated every one with a thing called RESPECT.

Sure I hung with the white guys because THAT WAS THE RULE. It never has been a question of "liking" other races or whatnot. The fact of the matter was we really didn't care whether they "liked" us or not. We wanted to be RESPECTED. Something that you obviously know nothing about. Then again, you are from New Jersey.....

 

[jobezee1]

+1




People like Soilwork(Jasun). Chase and Jobezee think that referring to someone in the effeminate is an insult. There are plenty of Girls, Queens, Marys, or whatever your simple minds come up with in the GLBT community. Those same girls went bat shit crazy on the oppressive "Straights" during stonewall to straight the fight for our equal rights. I'm sure the straight people who think we are less then human would be glad to know that people like you inside our own community attempting to do the same thing.I hope their are not guys coming out near any of you that will teach them that being themselves such as being effeminate is a bad thing.





CXXX

Please show me where I said anything like this.

Answer: You can't.

Just another poster who pulls out the old "Oh he's a racist" card when they disagree with someone's views. I don't have anything against effeminate guys. I wouldn't date one but that's just my taste. Same reason why I just like white guys. Look there are PLENTY of men in this community who tear it down by all the drugs they do, all the men they fuck, their haughty-taughty attitudes, and I've seen plenty of ageism in this community as well. Funny ya'll don't ever talk about that. Different stokes for different folks. Ironic how you folks who so embrace "diversity" are actually pretty intolerant of ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. Hypocrites.

 

[Críostóir]

jobezee1, I concluded that you're a racist on the strength of your posts here, which make it abundantly clear. No, I don't know you, and I don't need to in order to draw that conclusion; nor do I want to know you.

Denying the EXISTENCE of white privilege is really enough by itself. You didn't just arrive here from another planet.

 

[stone77]

Ahhh...the moralities of porn

 

[jobezee1]

jobezee1, I concluded that you're a racist on the strength of your posts here, which make it abundantly clear. No, I don't know you, and I don't need to in order to draw that conclusion; nor do I want to know you.

Denying the EXISTENCE of white privilege is really enough by itself. You didn't just arrive here from another planet.

Hmmmmm.................That's about like me saying "All N*gg*rs" are common thiefs and are to be feared by the white man and, especially, the white woman. After all, we all know how they feel about defiling white women. It's a trophy for "them." A mark of pride.

You concluded that I was a "racist" based on my posts. Why? Because I defended a guy who had, what you believed to be "racist" tattoos, and I did not come to the same conclusion?

Question: How many white supremecist, racists do you know (apparantly you know none, but I know several) would put themselves on the Internet, for the whole world to see, in a homosexually-oriented website?

Is that logical to you? Come on now, you're from the East Coast. You're from the NYC area and all you really smart folks come from the NYC area. Educamate me, here in hillbilly Texas, on how I'm suppose to think.

 

[TallOneCA]

Jobezee1, let's try this again, you seem to have trouble with basic logic.

Question: How many white supremecist, racists do you know (apparantly you know none, but I know several) would put themselves on the Internet, for the whole world to see, in a homosexually-oriented website?

Once again...

Jobezee1, most of the discussion has been what the tattoos represent, not whether or not Axl is a member of any group. It's unfortunate that you do not have the capacity to process that distinction.

Assuming Axl is not an actual member of "the club," but just thinks the club tattoos are cool, (yes, Axl is stupid), knowing what the tattoos represent, why would Active Duty continue to promote this?

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

What? Him and Jystar are the same person? No wonder why he was a douchebag to me for no reason in the other thread. Just hiding behind a new screen name.

I never hid(that's for losers) - you just deserved whatever it is you got. Can't do the whole "play nice" thing. It's fake - prefer not live that way.

Thanks for letting me know what the child said though... nothing as usual.

 

[Ninja108]

Jobezee1, let's try this again, you seem to have trouble with basic logic.



Once again...


Assuming Axl is not an actual member of "the club," but just thinks the club tattoos are cool, (yes, Axl is stupid), knowing what the tattoos represent, why would Active Duty continue to promote this?

By themselves,many of the tattoos he has have other meanings. I have a friend who has a Celtic cross to celebrate his Irish heritage. I'm sure that's the theory that will be used going forward.
Whether people will buy it..that's another thing entirely.

 

[JaredPad]

It's not any ONE of the tats, it's all of them together making it too much of a coincidence.

 

[Mnestor]

By themselves,many of the tattoos he has have other meanings. I have a friend who has a Celtic cross to celebrate his Irish heritage. I'm sure that's the theory that will be used going forward.
Whether people will buy it..that's another thing entirely.

Yeah,but Ninja108 I'm sure your friends' Celtic cross is the full one and not the Target crosshairs THAT IS CLEARLY RACIST that AXL has tattooed on his chess with a Thor Hammer blocking some of it out.

 

[Mnestor]

It's not any ONE of the tats, it's all of them together making it too much of a coincidence.

Thank-You JP for saying that. But it is kind of a lost cause for those who refuse to see all those tattoos together for what they truly represent HATE and RACISM I could've let 1 go but 4 or more and then saying he couldn't say WHAT one stood for and then DINK comes behind him and LIES about what AXL said. I really don't know what MORE PROOF people need. IF AXL is not racist then he needs to come out and say it. I'm not judging him I'm just saying.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

But it is kind of a lost cause for those who refuse to see all those tattoos together for what they truly represent HATE and RACISM

Hear Hear! It's getting down to just two camps now and neither one is prepared to budge. Interesting how the defenders are coming out of the woodwork and then (strangely and just as suddenly) retreating but that's the internet for you. I just don't have the energy for this anymore. I've said my piece (ad infinitum some would say) so I'm going to let it rest there. Sadly, I don't think there will be a changing of any minds at this point.

 

[TX-Beau]

There are two different issues here.

The first, well, I suppose it's possible that he just got those tattoos because he thought they were cool. So far as that goes. Now I don't know how much pseudo-Norse mythology hate groups use, but for sure it's not Irish in any respect, and the Celtic Cross certainly has other meanings, the prayer thing, probably that's just Hollywood - but then you get to the 14/88. That's not some kind of a "cool," design. It's pretty specific.

There's nothing especially cool or visually exceptional about the numbers 14 or 88, and it stretches credulity that you'd randomly pick out those two numbers out of all the others on a whim.

I find it hard to believe that someone would let someone else tattoo that on them without asking why - and that drags the others into question - not that they weren't suggestive on their own.

He says he thought they were cool so he got them, well that basically means he was around people who had those tattoos, and I also find it hard to believe that in that kind of company, no one knew what they meant or was unwilling to explain.

So what does all this imply. Well for someone that young, not so much. Yes it's probably true that he did know what they stood for, and it's probably true that he did run with a pack that was into that crap. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a bigot hater. Prejudiced? Probably.

I'm reminded of all those young guys in the South who tack rebel flags on their pickup trucks. Most of them aren't haters either, it's well, rebellion, and they know damn well it's going to piss people off, and they know damn well it's racist - but that's the point, the controversy, the rush, the whole adolescent posturing of it all. Most of them grow out of it, but not the real haters.

Is it possible he's a hater? Sure. But none of us will ever know.

What these guys are not thinking about (at least the non hater prejudiced ones) - is what that crap means to the people victimized by that stupid ideology, the one that tells minorities and gay people and to some extent women that they are less than human and so anything you do to them is excused.

So yeah, sometimes that crap is a kind of tribal thing that the guy isn't really thinking about from someone else's perspective - with no real intent to harm anyone. Sometimes the guy is a bigot hater looking for scapegoats for his own sorry life.

What they are all responsible for however is the response they get for putting that crap out there. There are consequences for doing that, and they deserve to feel them.



Second, well, should a gay site catering to gay men be associating itself with that kind of imagery?

This is a whole other issue, in which we gay men vote with out feet. Porn is not a social commentary platform, it's a platform driven by us. If Dink made tons of money filming minorities - I'd bet the house he'd be filming tons minorities. But guess what guys - we aren't buying. I'm reminded of a famous poster in here (minority) who told us all he'd only date white guys. That prejudice is by far not unique to him.

Porn is a reflection of the prejudice problem in the gay community, not the cause. So if we are that offended we can all walk.

It doesn't really matter beyond a personal level what Dink may or may not believe, and yes sometimes porn makes a convenient scapegoat, what matters is what we put up with.

It's unfortunate that such a pretty guy has such ugly things inked into his body, it makes him a lot less attractive - to me, but I also know there are a lot of you out there who'll be whacking your cocks raw to fantasies of Nazi's humiliating and abusing you.

If we don't want to see that, we can walk away, if we want to change that, porn isn't the vehicle.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, don't be including all of Texas or the south in that. you don't speak for anyone but yourself.

 

[JaredPad]

Keep going jobe. You're the best one to tell the real Active Duty story. (I honestly wonder if "jobe" is 'Kaden')

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

This CAN'T be for real. guys.

This HAS to be an elaborate joke to get the thread closed, it just HAS to be. It's too "perfectly" awful to be real. It even managed to hit the 'Obama is a Mao Tse Tung socialist (sic)" talking point. It's GOT to be a variation of the "elaborate scenario troll" (and they ALWAYS go too far and give themselves away) so I strongly recommend ignoring this guy.

He's LAUGHING at the sincere posters here and just trying to juice everybody up. Mark my words, when this thread dies down, he will magically disappear.

This last post totally tipped his hand.

 

[MajorJake101]

This is still going?

 

[TX-Beau]

This is still going?

When a guy has a desperate need for a spanking...

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Well I stand corrected. Google jobezee1 and you'll see he has a very active internet profile (and is from Texas) so I guess the persona WASN'T created just for this purpose. My apologies for suggesting it.