Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

[Kahaih]

OOH i smell paranoia , i certainly do not have a superiority complex , just some common-sense .

Have you finished your 3 times table yet ?

Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

You’re making an ass of yourself.

 

[eastofeden]

I have never downloaded any music. I have a massive vinyl and CD collection...I love the art on LPs and prefer the sound of vinyl....

I even pay for my porn on AEBN...had an account for many many years.

I also buy my own movies and TV episodes I get on HULU and I have a fairly large library on Amazon that I have paid for the individual episodes.

I wouldn't download anything for free because it is stealing. I am very superstitious about karma and reaping what you sow so stealing is just not an option for me. If you need to know if it is wrong...ask yourself how you like it when someone steals something for you. There's your answer.

 

[medic1]

Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

You’re making an ass of yourself.

1 i can assure you that at 6am i have not had a drink .
2 So if you can accuse me of being inebriated i can accuse you of being a dick-head..............

 

[Lord Booticus]

The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.

 

[ravenstar]

So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.

 

[Audio Tech]

yes I do.

do you have an awswer?

Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.

what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

then they look for scapegoats.

 

[Scealle]

This is a rather sensitive topic. Being an artist myself I'd be really pissed of if I spent sleepless months on a project and have it illegally downloaded. However it is also pretty ridiculous when majority of my art freinds themselves does not support the industry and they themselves seems to have illegally downloaded games and music.

 

[umjreon88]

I have the same belief as the OP too. I mean, ultimately, the actors got paid for their roles and the director still gets his international acclaim so I don't see the deal. Also, because I have not access to TV and my busy schedule makes for a difficult time to find a time to chill with friends and watch our favourite shows. So what I do is to stream them online illegally.

Besides, I listen to the radio and stream songs on youtube so I save disc space on my hard drive!

 

[xbuzzerx]

The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.
View attachment 917835

That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.

 

[borg69unimatrix]

If I do a job at work, I get paid for it based on what my work was worth. One job, one payment. I don't have the luxury of doing the job to whatever standards *I* see fit, and then charging whatever I want for the job, and then KEEP getting paid for that same one job for all eternity -- which is kind of how I see the digital media moguls being.

 

[Audio Tech]

what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

then they look for scapegoats.

That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.

 

[xbuzzerx]

That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.

I agree with that particularly in reference to distributors trying to be too anal and greedy about accessibility. If they've gone out of thier way to make their movie inaccessible on netflix, have slapped youtube for having any clips from it up, and literally the only way to go get it is to hunt it down in a Best Buy or something, I can't help but feel like "get with the times."

 

[Lord Booticus]

So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.

It's pretty much an extreme version of lending. Someone has bought the CD/DVD/Game and has then used the internet as a medium to lend it to anyone who can find it. The product isn't stolen and the pirater isn't stealing the item from the internet, so it isn't theft; it's breech of copyright.

The reason why it's got the name of theft is because theft is something everyone can empathise with; breech of copyright is a very corporate sounding term that would conjure little sympathy for the company's.

I just feel that if we are to beat a problem we first need to understand it and calling it something that it isn't can become a hinderance to getting the correct solution. Instead we get silly things.

That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.

Which comes to the point; downloads do not necessarily equate to sales.

 

[borg69unimatrix]

If I buy a movie, and then invite 15 people over to watch it and do this several times would I still be a pirate?

Dozens of people got to watch it without paying for it.

... or if I go into a book store and just read the comics there without purchasing them, is that piracy?

 

[Rolyo85]

Eh, it's all been said already, but to reiterate:

1. Serial downloaders aren't potential customers. Most would never have bought the product if it weren't available for free.

2. Downloading can be a gateway to purchases instead of redirecting people from them. Case in point - "illegal" downloading (and fansubs) has been essential to popularizing anime outside of Japan. Without it, Japanese animation would have never become as popular as it is today.

3. Downloading is only harmful for unpopular products, and even then, it could help the product instead of ruin it.


Personally, I pirate a lot of stuff, but I also buy a ton of things. When it comes to tv shows, I almost always download them first, but every time I've liked a show, I've bought it afterwards. I don't pirate movies because I watch them on the big screen and then buy the blu-ray. I don't pirate games because I play only on consoles. I pirate books because prior to buying a Kindle, I've spent more money on books than the US on its defense budget. And I pirate music because I'm a cheap fuck.

No, actually, to be fair, I pirate both books and music nowadays, simply because I grew up in a pirate culture where digital was = to "download for free". I have not been able to move past that sentiment. I simply can't force myself to pay for digital stuff. I want all my movies/shows/games to be actual objects, not just files, and I even buy some of my favorite books just to have them on a shelf, even though if I ever wanted to read them again, I'd still do it on the illegally downloaded file on my Kindle...

I guess I'm weird. But considering the amount of money I pay for my entertainment, I just can't make myself feel bad for pirating the rest.

 

[Audio Tech]

Technically..... yes. Technically singing "Happy Birthday" at any venue is also considered a public performance and is subject to copyright laws. Technically. ABSURD! But nonetheless....

So don't sing popular songs in the shower loud enough for people outside to hear. Yeah.... Technically.
Stupid, isn't it? We have some really screwed up laws. But technically there are laws that prohibit sex in anything other than missionary position. So who the hell enforces these????

And.... yes, if they could figure out how to Neuralize us after a movie so we'd forget and pay to see it again.... they would.

If I buy a movie, and then invite 15 people over to watch it and do this several times would I still be a pirate?

Dozens of people got to watch it without paying for it.

... or if I go into a book store and just read the comics there without purchasing them, is that piracy?

 

[Audio Tech]

Eh, it's all been said already, but to reiterate:

1. Serial downloaders aren't potential customers. Most would never have bought the product if it weren't available for free.

2. Downloading can be a gateway to purchases instead of redirecting people from them. Case in point - "illegal" downloading (and fansubs) has been essential to popularizing anime outside of Japan. Without it, Japanese animation would have never become as popular as it is today.

3. Downloading is only harmful for unpopular products, and even then, it could help the product instead of ruin it.

1. Yes. I have a well to do friend who owns 3 houses and works for Apple. He simply will NOT buy anything. He either mooches music and videos from friends or torrent sites. He simply REFUSES to pay for content. He is not, nor will EVER be a customer. That's his mindset, and that's that. Nope, no way, and not even for $1 a disc.

2. I myself have downloaded certain stuff to check it out, because I have been "burned" in the past with crappy media. Many times I have either: "Fuck this crap! Total waste of time and money..... damn glad I didn't BUY this crap!" (Hit Delete)
Or: "Hey, this is really good!" "I want the original" (Buys item online)


3. True. Crap is crap. I'd rather not find out I PAID to throw something in the trash.

 

[Rolyo85]

No, my 3 was about indie projects and cool stuff with limited success, not about crap. The indie game studios that died because of piracy, that buzzer mentioned, for example.

 

[Audio Tech]

BTW, does anyone here remember when you could walk into a record or CD shop and LISTEN to a title before you bought it?

You found out right there on the spot if something was crap or not before you put your money down.

- - - Updated - - -

No, my 3 was about indie projects and cool stuff with limited success, not about crap. The indie game studios that died because of piracy, that buzzer mentioned, for example.

Ahh.. sorry about that.