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Argument in cinema results in gunshot death

The victim wasn't just 'being rude'.

He had been seated in front of, and with his back to, the shooter, but he was shot in the chest.

The same bullet also hit his wife while she was trying to hold him back.

He was facing the shooter and he had to have been standing at the time because after he was shot he dropped/fell across two grown men.

Witnesses have already said that the argument had become physical before the gunshot.

Being rude/being a dick/being "extra" and threatening. I get it, Kahaih...I've read what you've been saying over and over throughout the thread.

It still didn't have to result in a shooting. That was my point.

Sorry I didn't use the correct word for you.
 
The victim wasn't just 'being rude'.

He had been seated in front of, and with his back to, the shooter, but he was shot in the chest.

The same bullet also hit his wife while she was trying to hold him back.

He was facing the shooter and he had to have been standing at the time because after he was shot he dropped/fell across two grown men.

Witnesses have already said that the argument had become physical before the gunshot.

And I think many of these confrontations go out of control in the first place because someone gets over-pushy because they're wearing a gun on them, and when it escalates, they then have their excuse for "feeling threatened" and "shooting in self defense", when they should never have had the gun on them in the first place.

Much like the guy going up and starting the altercation with three unarmed teenagers in their car at the gas station, and telling them to turn the music off, and when they wouldn't, a verbal disagreement breaks out where we don't know what was said but we know the teenagers didn't even get out of the car and he shot at them.

So are we supposed to believe that scenario would have played out precisely the same with no gun present?
 
I think that repeatedly labeling a guy who was murdered for texting his daughter as some gigantic asshole is actually worse than texting in a movie theater.

I'd definitely agree with that. There's a pretty rusty moral compass directing a position that says what we should be discussing here is what a dick the texter was when we're talking about a dead guy killed over movie theater etiquette.
 
It happened in Pasco County, one of my least favorite Florida counties. It's redneck and bigoted and awful.
 
I'd definitely agree with that. There's a pretty rusty moral compass directing a position that says what we should be discussing here is what a dick the texter was when we're talking about a dead guy killed over movie theater etiquette.

I think there are two separate arguments...the articles are written in a sensational manner in order to attract the readers and the focus was on the circumstances so it is natural to try to interpret the circumstances and also natural for people to have different perspectives...

BUT...the REAL issue here is about carrying concealed weapons and I think this is a great example and catalyst for further gun debate.
 
Yeah...we are all "sure" of that. There are circumstances that are unique to every individual however and when you decide to fuck with someone else you would do well to consider that.

I'm sure because there would be a lot more of these cases where someone gets shot because they're either rude, dick headed or inconsiderate.

In order to understand any situation it requires that you at least try to see things from the perspective of the people involved...

In this situation neither of these men could handle the situation properly, one unfortunately had a gun that he couldn't keep in his holster. Clearly someone who should not have had a gun in the first place, it is hard to believe he was even a cop.
 
I guess shooting someone for texting is utterly indefensible.

But shooting someone randomly for minding his own business and being a polite neighbour at the movie theatre is slightly more indefensible by comparison.
 
That would be no.

You hear what you want to hear, or what others who share the gun view hear.

And, it's actually the other way round. Stating that the cop is guilty doesn't preclude one from addressing the actual incident instead of just ranting about guns. I've not seen anyone in the thread "make excuses" for the killer. He's a killer, and guilty. That's a moot point. There weren't mitigating circumstances, but there were circumstances. There's a difference.

But it isn't a zero-sum equation. We don't have to place blame on the dick with the phone in order to agree that the gun use was invalid and the responsibility of the trained cop. Nor, in addressing the guilt of the cop, do we have to portray the behavior of the texter as irrelevant to the events that unfolded.

To discuss the relevance is not tantamount to blaming the victim. He is more than likely the cause of the argument in more ways than one, but, as Jayhawk and others posted, he picked the wrong guy to bully with his obnoxious theater behavior.

In real life scenarios where people do that, they usually have an air of "what you gonna do about it?" Unfortunately, the guy picked the wrong guy to stand up against with his right to be an asshole in the theater. It shouldn't have cost him his life, but it did.

And to all those commenting that the killer could have moved, so could the dick with the phone.

What you're claiming you're doing is not excusing the shooter but pointing out that the guy texting was engaging in a rude behavior --- something not a single person here has disagreed with.

So again you are either having a disagreement with imaginary people in this thread, or you are continuing to reiterate in how much contempt you hold the texter's behavior for some other reason.

Since you claim that you are not pointing out the texter being rude to imply equivalency or justification for the shooter's reaction, and since no one is denying his behavior was rude, then why are you laboring so incredibly hard to keep making this point?

Yes, I do think that you feel this is just some punk in the world who got some well deserved comeuppance. I think you're too afraid to say that and have been careful not to, but making sure to continue drawing attention to the texter's behavior, repeatedly labelling him a dick, and saying you're not going to feign any artificial grief for his death serves no other purpose really.

I agree with Mystery. This cold and thinly veiled understanding you are expressing for someone wanting to shove it good at this guy is much worse than somebody texting in a movie theater.
 
That would be no.

You hear what you want to hear, or what others who share the gun view hear.

No I'm not. I am talking to people who are afraid to outright say they believed he got what he deserved.

And you'd be creating propaganda. He wasn't texting his daughter -- he was texting his daughter in a theater after he'd been asked not to do it. He didn't care. He was more important than the people around him. He didn't care whom it bothered.

So is the guy who decided to play God in the movie theater.
 
No I'm not. I am talking to people who are afraid to outright say they believed he got what he deserved.

I don't think anyone "deserves" to die...but I would have applauded if he was escorted out of the theatre. In my mind...he is the same jerk that is texting while he is diving and almost killing people who have to pay extra special attention to avoid the fucker. I hate it when they call them "accidents" when it is a willful and deliberate act and conscious choice.
 
Since you claim that you are not pointing out the texter being rude to imply equivalency or justification for the shooter's reaction, and since no one is denying his behavior was rude, then why are you laboring so incredibly hard to keep making this point?

Penalties for bad behavior can be nourishment for the hungry soul.

"It's very telling" that Dolores doesn't take equal delight in scolding the murderer for being a dick.

"Deep down, Oulson knows he deserved to be punished."

Huh-HMH! :mrgreen:
 
According to the pic, the victim looks like a gentle giant.
The old bastard may have abused many people in the past. We'll see.

Whats with all the "old" shit? We get it the dude was old and 71 retired Tampa cop. Really WTF, a nut job is nut job really doesn't make a difference if they are zimmermans age or the shooter in Aurora Colorado theater or New Town CT.
 
My focus on his from the beginning has been deliberate because this forum has a predictable pattern of rants in the gun control debate. Of note, the bigoted snark by Access just now involving Texas, as if the vast amount of guns in this country are concentrated in "redneck" states. So, Chicago is a redneck epicenter? And LA? Sooo many more senseless murders are carried out every week in thug-on-thug petty conflicts, but the forum is deadly silent about those, as they aren't in the zone of ire that we reserve for the PC topics of choice.

So referencing the significant loud, vocal gun zealots of Texas and the gun culture present there is "bigotry"? Wow.
 
Explaining gun culture in America is like explaining...oh, I don't know - stiff-upper-lippedness in the UK? You can toss out cliches and quips, or you can write paragraphs upon paragraphs, but it's difficult to convey even the most basic aspects of it. And every factoid I throw out will give a bit of education in one direction, but keep most of the rest hidden.

I'll mention a few random aspects of it, which may or may not give a clearer picture.

* The American murder rate has decreased significantly over the past two decades. Ditto gun violence.

* Gun ownership is actually declining. Since 1973, the GSS has been asking Americans whether they keep a gun in their home. In the 1970s, about half of the nation said yes; today only about one-third do.

* The current wrangle in politics over gun control is usually about an "assault weapon ban". The term "assault weapon" is somewhat meaningless, but it refers to a very specific type of gun with very specific type of equipment and specs. The nation appears roughly split down the middle about whether or not to ban this type of gun...which accounts for far fewer than 1% of all guns, and far fewer than 1% of all crime/violence committed by guns. In short, actual "gun control" is America is similar to having the UK discuss whether to ban 30-foot-limos from driving through town, and calling it "car control".

* A goodly number of Americans have a heavy mistrust of their government (even if we'll re-elect them every two years). And yes, many of them own guns. And yes - they feel the very first move the government will want to take towards them will be to disarm them. They consider any attempt at "gun control" as a slippery slope meant to take away their last line of defense at the American government having their way with them. Again, we're not talking pistols and standard rifles - we're talking those assault weapons listed above. And they have roughly half the country on their side.

Lex

Whilst I appreciate that gun ownership rates in the United States have declined in recent decades; America still has the highest gun-related homicide rate of any developed country in the world. Also, I cannot understand why there is such a great deal of opposition to President Obama's proposal to reintroduce the ban on military-style assault weapons, after all, those types of weapons are not suitable for everyday citizens, as witnessed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting, where many innocent people lost their lives as a result of someone, who was clearly deranged, having access to semi-automatic weapons.
 
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