Big Brother 13 CBS

[soopadupa]

 

[Lostlover]

She is really killing this show as much as Probst is killing Survivor these days, isn't she?

Well, it doesn't really matter to some people how rigged this show is. That night Frank should have gone home when they allowed the coaches to enter the game and Frank to stay in (wasting a week in the process), people here completely skipped over that obvious blatant rigging and were talking about the HoH competition as if nothing happened.

Dan (floater) said...

Ian (floater) said...

All that matters is what Allison Grodner says and does. Strategy died the night Frank was allowed to stay in. Now it's all about competition.

 

[falconfan]

Well, it doesn't really matter to some people how rigged this show is. That night Frank should have gone home when they allowed the coaches to enter the game and Frank to stay in (wasting a week in the process), people here completely skipped over that obvious blatant rigging and were talking about the HoH competition as if nothing happened.

Dan (floater) said...

Ian (floater) said...

All that matters is what Allison Grodner says and does. Strategy died the night Frank was allowed to stay in. Now it's all about competition.

That's ridiculous. Just because there was an unexpected twist doesn't mean strategy stops being important. It means every has to adjust and adapt. That's part of what strategy is. Arbitrarily claiming things are 'just about competition' is just random.

 

[Lostlover]

That's ridiculous. Just because there was an unexpected twist doesn't mean strategy stops being important. It means every has to adjust and adapt. That's part of what strategy is. Arbitrarily claiming things are 'just about competition' is just random.

Anybody else here agree that Frank's saving at the beginning of the season was an "unexpected twist" or a deliberate, blatant rigging done by BB producers?

Both Dan and Ian (two fanboys of BB) mentioned Andy Danhart's web site Reality Blurred last night. He put it best about the rigging that allowed Frank to stay:

Executive producer Allison Grodner could have elbowed her way through the studio audience, pushed Julie Chen aside, and cast 10 votes to evict Joe, and it would have been less obvious than what happened. It’s ridiculous.

I'd like to see where people stand on this one. We all knew the coaches would enter, unfairly too. But what we didn't expect was keeping Frank who was so gone.

This is the first season I can remember with two double eviction Thursdays and two Pandora's boxes. Remember how Pandora's box usually lets in something terrible? That two Veto week with Pandora's box didn't have that element. It seemed rushed and hastily put together. (How difficult is it to put bouncy balls in the backyard or cards with [STRIKE]hush[/STRIKE] money in it for Frank?)

 

[falconfan]

Anybody else here agree that Frank's saving at the beginning of the season was an "unexpected twist" or a deliberate, blatant rigging done by BB producers?

Both Dan and Ian (two fanboys of BB) mentioned Andy Danhart's web site Reality Blurred last night. He put it best about the rigging that allowed Frank to stay:



I'd like to see where people stand on this one. We all knew the coaches would enter, unfairly too. But what we didn't expect was keeping Frank who was so gone.

This is the first season I can remember with two double eviction Thursdays and two Pandora's boxes. Remember how Pandora's box usually lets in something terrible? That two Veto week with Pandora's box didn't have that element. It seemed rushed and hastily put together. (How difficult is it to put bouncy balls in the backyard or cards with [STRIKE]hush[/STRIKE] money in it for Frank?)

Yes, production effects the product they are producing. Sometimes they blatantly act to keep dynamic characters in the game. The most blatant instance was in season 11 when they gave Jeff's coup d'etate, so I'll use that one as an example. Had they not done that the season would've turned out to be just Jesse and a bunch of his groupies. It would've been boring, anti-climatic and sunk in the ratings. HOWEVER, Jessie's eviction at the hands of the coup was not done at the hands of production. It was done by his poor social gaming. Had he not been so pompous and overconfident that the odds could never flip on him he could've survived that week. But he was a jerk to the people outside his alliance. He created zero side alliances and didn't create a safety net. Now even though Frank is about to be evicted if he Coupted things Dan would still be OK because he has set up a safety net. So is there manipulation? Yes. Does that benefit some contestants more than others? Yes. But each person who loses this game is ultimately the architect of his/her own demise.

As per THIS season and the idea that BB has cancelled Franks eviction to specifically save Frank I'd say that's reaching. That eviction was going to be cancelled regardless of who was about to be evicted because Willie got himself ejected and they were an entire week ahead of their eviction schedule. Because Willie was evicted on Monday they couldn't just say 'no eviction this week' as it would prevent them from having a show for two nights. The coaches entering seemed like the best excuse for them to naturally voicd an eviction week. Their only other option would be cutting a double eviction but seeing how deadly dull the final weeks are that's clearly going to create less compelling television.

Reality shows have 'twists' because they are first and foremost SHOWS. They aren't the Olympics. No one trains their entire life to be here. No one DESERVES to be here. They were picked by casting people for their entertainment value because the show is meant to entertain. If it doesn't entertain it stops existing. Every contestant does, or should, know this when they enter and if they are smart enough to create an environment in which they are safe no matter what than they are a superior player. That's really all there is to it.

 

[falconfan]

Um...wow. Chima would've never put him up and Jesse was controlling over half the house and most of them liked him. He had 3 girls crying over him and Kevin on his side who was best friends with those girls. After Russell's eviction, it would be those 5 against Jordan, Jeff, and Michelle who would've been easily picked off. Kevin probably would've been next then Lydia. It didn't have to go in that order because you never know but Jesse was in one of the best spots in the house. And to say it wouldn't have been entertaining if Jeff left, those house guests that season were full of drama without him and even if they weren't all likable, they were sure as hell entertaining. I didn't read the rest of the post after what I highlighted but just everything you said was just completely bogus.

Nothing you said even refutes what I said? I openly admit that Jessie probably would've won had there been no coup. (And the fact you can spell out EXACTLY what would've happened does seem to insinuate it would've been boring and predictable) My point is simply that the coup may have LEAD to Jessie's defeat but it didn't guarantee it. There's a reason why Jeff targeted Jessie. It wasn't strictly because Jessie was 'strongest' (He had 2 comp wins). Russell and Michelle also had 2 comp wins. Russell and Michelle however had been keeping up communications with both Jessie's side and Jeff's side (Keeping them as both on the outer edges of Jessie and Jeff's crosshairs). Moreover Jessie wen HOME because he expected his comp wins to carry him and didn't bother building a strong structure within his alliance. He went home by one vote, Kevin's vote and that was because unlike Natalie he hadn't bothered to form bonds within his alliance. To say Jessie didn't get fucked by a production move to keep the game interesting would be to ignore the obvious. His fate was far from sealed though. It was his own poor social gameplay that lead to his ultimate eviction.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Is that why you didn't respond to my last post? Because you couldn't find a good argument for it? Well now you do since Frank's for sure being evicted this week.

There was no point in arguing it further since you clearly think a game of social strategy is a game about winning competitions.

Besides, Dr. Will -- the greatest player of all time according to you -- said it best this season: "Janelle's just a three-time loser."

So much for winning comps.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

falconfan why are you wasting your breath? I've already bashed my head against a wall. That should suffice.

 

[roadtripboy]

Well...I've said it before. This year the production team seem particularly lazy. This season feels like they forgot to plan it before hand.

CBS has cleaned house on this show before and it's time they do it again. If they'd do their job, the show could be interesting without them stirring the pot.

 

[joesman]

I have to disagree on the show that gave Jeff the coup and allowed him and Jordan to succeed when all they did was sit in the back yard and complain about Jessie and his group winning and slowly getting rid of the listeners (floaters) that were J&J's friends. Giving the coup to Jeff took out the people (as much as you may dislike them) that were playing the game. That coup took out the people who were playing the game gave J&J a straight run to the finals and of course Jordan's win. Jessie and his group were at least doing something besides sitting on their asses and bitching about other people winning. Jeff & Jordan did absolutely nothing, NOTHING before they got the coup and they got that coup because Grods liked them better and America disliked Jessie. They did that to Jessie twice in both his seasons.

And yes, the judges coming back in did save Frank from eviction as Dan so blatantly told Boogs who got a wild hair up his ass and sent Frank after Dan with a wild hair up his bushy ass. Dan telling Boogs was the reason frank had a hard on for Dan to get him out because he was sure Dan was the traitor and he was so stuck on that idea that he couldn't look anywhere else for a culprit. Frank still being there is production and they are still trying to save his loud bullying ass.

 

[joesman]

I have saved a few of the BB AD each year and still look back on that J&J gift with utter disdain because up until the coup Jeff and Jordan and their lot were doing all the socializing with people that Jessie and his group disassembled and sent packing. J&J would have been gone had not Jeff gotten that coup and switched the nominees.

 

[Lostlover]

There was no point in arguing it further since you clearly think a game of social strategy is a game about winning competitions.

Besides, Dr. Will -- the greatest player of all time according to you -- said it best this season: "Janelle's just a three-time loser."

So much for winning comps.

What good is social strategy if Allison Grodner and Co. keep who they want in?

What kind of social strategy does Joe, Jenn, Danielle and Ian have that's allowed them to stay in this far? Please tell me.

What good was social strategy last week when producers took away the HoH's (Frank's) main target in Ian with a second Power of Veto. Let me repeat that: IAN GOT A POWER OF VETO IN ADDITION TO THE ORIGINAL POWER OF VETO.

What good is "social strategy" [STRIKE]if[/STRIKE] when producers nullify it to get an outcome they want?

 

[Lostlover]

I have saved a few of the BB AD each year and still look back on that J&J gift with utter disdain because up until the coup Jeff and Jordan and their lot were doing all the socializing with people that Jessie and his group disassembled and sent packing. J&J would have been gone had not Jeff gotten that coup and switched the nominees.

But fucking over Chima to keep Jeff in was an "unexpected twist." (Now, a true unexpected twist is if BB doesn't meddle.)

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I still can't believe Frank thinks he has the votes to stay. It won't be the epic blindside we would've gotten if they hadn't canceled his first eviction, but it'll do.

 

[Aratron]

That eviction was going to be cancelled regardless of who was about to be evicted because Willie got himself ejected and they were an entire week ahead of their eviction schedule.

You don't know that.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

What falconfan means -- and please pay attention Awesomeness since by your own admission, you didn't read falconfan's entire post so you didn't get the gist of what he was saying -- is that a good player would have built a safety net because Big Brother always has stupid twists. Had Jessie built a relationship with Kevin let's say, the Coup would have gotten him on the block but he could've still remained in the house. Natalie played better than Jesse because SHE managed to do enough to keep herself in the game even though she was put on the block with the Coup. Jeff was given an advantage no doubt, but he didn't get to cast all five votes to evict, and that's where Jesse failed.

Also if Jesse hadn't been an overbearing asshole walking around like he was king of the house, he wouldn't have become the #1 target of a twist in the game. Smart players let other players take the fall for them. Just like how Natalie smartly hid behind Jesse so even in the event of a stupid twist (like the coup), she was safe.

Take this season for example. If there was a Coup this week and let's say Joe got it (just bear with me) cuz he's the only one who keeps saying he wants Dan out. Even if Joe pulled himself off and put up Dan -- hell even if he pulled Frank off too -- Dan would still have the votes to say because he has smartly played alliances against each other so that Frank thinks he has an alliance with Frank/Jenn/Danielle/Dan, Shane thinks he has an alliance with Shane/Danielle/Dan, Ian thinks he has an alliance with Ian/Shane/Danielle/Dan. And at least four people think they have F2 deals with Dan (Frank/Danielle/Ian/Jenn). He's not going anywhere, even if there was a stupid twist that got him on the block.

And that's why social game is ultimately more important than anything else. Because if everything else fails, your social game can save you from eviction votes and get you jury votes in the end. Because in the end this game is all about voting.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

You keep twisting my words around but that's ok.

More like "reminding you of what you said" but I can see how for your arguments, that would be pesky.

 

[Lostlover]

Yes, production effects the product they are producing. Sometimes they blatantly act to keep dynamic characters in the game. The most blatant instance was in season 11 when they gave Jeff's coup d'etate, so I'll use that one as an example. Had they not done that the season would've turned out to be just Jesse and a bunch of his groupies. It would've been boring, anti-climatic and sunk in the ratings. HOWEVER, Jessie's eviction at the hands of the coup was not done at the hands of production. It was done by his poor social gaming. Had he not been so pompous and overconfident that the odds could never flip on him he could've survived that week. But he was a jerk to the people outside his alliance. He created zero side alliances and didn't create a safety net. Now even though Frank is about to be evicted if he Coupted things Dan would still be OK because he has set up a safety net. So is there manipulation? Yes. Does that benefit some contestants more than others? Yes. But each person who loses this game is ultimately the architect of his/her own demise.

As per THIS season and the idea that BB has cancelled Franks eviction to specifically save Frank I'd say that's reaching. That eviction was going to be cancelled regardless of who was about to be evicted because Willie got himself ejected and they were an entire week ahead of their eviction schedule. Because Willie was evicted on Monday they couldn't just say 'no eviction this week' as it would prevent them from having a show for two nights. The coaches entering seemed like the best excuse for them to naturally voicd an eviction week. Their only other option would be cutting a double eviction but seeing how deadly dull the final weeks are that's clearly going to create less compelling television.

If the bolded is true, why did the producers give the coaches the option of going into the game and playing and allowing Frank to stay in?

Don't you think it would be easier to just get rid of one of the two double eviction nights already this season rather than erasing a week's worth of game play by keeping Frank in?

They could have easily had Frank evicted because they needlessly put in two weeks of double eviction Thursdays (thus cutting short the season two weeks with the two extra evictions).

"The only other option would be cutting a double eviction..." Who said BB has to have any double eviction nights?

Reality shows have 'twists' because they are first and foremost SHOWS. They aren't the Olympics. No one trains their entire life to be here. No one DESERVES to be here. They were picked by casting people for their entertainment value because the show is meant to entertain. If it doesn't entertain it stops existing. Every contestant does, or should, know this when they enter and if they are smart enough to create an environment in which they are safe no matter what than they are a superior player. That's really all there is to it.

That's funny that you say that no one trains to be on BB. Dan wrote a book about how to get on Big Brother. In a way it's kinda like practicing for an Olympics.

 

[Lostlover]

I still can't believe Frank thinks he has the votes to stay. It won't be the epic blindside we would've gotten if they hadn't canceled his first eviction, but it'll do.

Mind boggling: Still talking strategy and votes in a rigged season.

Must be on Grodner's payroll to still think that there's strategy and game play going on in this game.

This goes to show for the people fed up with all the rigging this season that there are still people "trying to make this season work," despite all the manipulation.

Some of the garbage read. The social games of Jenn, Joe, Danielle and the other floaters are more meaningful than the producers' manipulation. That's absurd.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

If Ian goes tonight after Frank, I'll be a very happy camper.