Botched Execution in Oklahoma

[cityboy-stl]

Sticking with the execution drug(s) specifically, what does a vet use to euthanize animals? That seemed to work pretty quick and painless when I was a kid and we had to put our dog down. What is wrong with that?

 

[Jack Springer]

Wait he came along and changed everything. Jesus is the epitome requesting of social change. He asked that you look into your own soul, realize you are flawed, accept his as savior and then change your ways to follow his intricate set of rules --- or to simply love one another --- that part people are still arguing. However it is fact that following a religious creed is social change. Every place they go they attempt to spread the good word and change the hearts of others.

LOL. Jesus isnt for social change. You are a hoot.

You and others here are missing the meaning of the Gospel and the reason Jesus was born, died, and rose. He did not come for social change -- he came for salvation of sinners.

I understand why you would be confused since many lost Christian churches now promote social change over the Gospel.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't know Jesus, do you?

I do and I hope you would also.

 

[opinterph]

what does a vet use to euthanize animals?

Companion pets are generally euthanized by intravenous administration of sodium pentobarbital (pentobarbitone). The barbiturate enters the blood stream and causes very rapid loss of consciousness. Soon thereafter, the animal’s heart stops beating while they are effectively under deep anesthesia.

The Humane Society of the United States, The American Humane Association, and the American Veterinary Medical Association recommend that method as the most humane, safest, least stressful, and most professional choice.

 

[Kulindahr]

It was the Enlightenment - a rejection of 1700 years of theology and an embrace of rationalism and materialist pragmatism - that drove the concept of human rights, the abolition of slavery, and the establishment of our modern forms of government. Not Jesus or God or Religion. The form it takes is a human invention, and a stellar human achievement at that.

In both Britain and the US, the anti-slavery movement was driven by Christians. They returned to the ancient position of the church, which was that no man may own the Image of God, and thus people cannot be property.

 

[Kulindahr]

You and others here are missing the meaning of the Gospel and the reason Jesus was born, died, and rose. He did not come for social change -- he came for salvation of sinners.

I understand why you would be confused since many lost Christian churches now promote social change over the Gospel.

Your Gospel reductionism is an insult to the glory of God the Son. If the only thing He came for was to be born, die, and rise, then He wouldn't have needed to spend three years in ministry showing us how we're to live. Yes, He came to save sinners, but He came for far more than that.

I do and I hope you would also.

Your politics don't show it: you support a government cruel enough to the poor that the ancient Prophets would utter condemnation at least as stringent as anything they aimed at Israel.

 

[Jack Springer]

Your Gospel reductionism is an insult to the glory of God the Son. If the only thing He came for was to be born, die, and rise, then He wouldn't have needed to spend three years in ministry showing us how we're to live. Yes, He came to save sinners, but He came for far more than that.



Your politics don't show it: you support a government cruel enough to the poor that the ancient Prophets would utter condemnation at least as stringent as anything they aimed at Israel.

Jesus came to save the lost ... all sinners from eternal damnation.

You've bought into modern Christianity and modern Evangelicalism that distorts the Gospel into some kind of 'mentality for social change'.

We all need to do more to help others -- the difference is in how that should be accomplished. It's better to show someone how to make something so that they can provide for themselves instead of providing goods, services, and money to them without them doing anything for it.

 

[rareboy]

You and others here are missing the meaning of the Gospel and the reason Jesus was born, died, and rose. He did not come for social change -- he came for salvation of sinners.

I understand why you would be confused since many lost Christian churches now promote social change over the Gospel.

- - - Updated - - -



I do and I hope you would also.

Trust me.

You do not know Jesus.

That much is nakedly clear in your analysis and assessment of him.

He didn't overturn the tables of the money lenders in the temple because he was saving souls of sinners.

He was crucified for sedition.

Why not read up on your saviour?

 

[Kulindahr]

Jesus came to save the lost ... all sinners from eternal damnation.

But that's not all He did. He came to show us how to live, as well, else Paul would not have talked about imitating Christ.

You've bought into modern Christianity and modern Evangelicalism that distorts the Gospel into some kind of 'mentality for social change'.

Actually, I've bought into Patristic Christianity. It doesn't dismember Christ into pieces and throw some away, as your Gospel reductionism does.

We all need to do more to help others -- the difference is in how that should be accomplished. It's better to show someone how to make something so that they can provide for themselves instead of providing goods, services, and money to them without them doing anything for it.

The Prophets disagree with you. They condemn most of what you stand for economically -- piling wealth on wealth, having multiple houses while there are homeless, eating expensive food while others are hungry, charging heavy rents to the poor (and taxing them), and somehow regarding that as righteous. Indeed, if we were to do as Jesus teaches and follow the Prophets on matters of mercy, every corporation would be required to provide a tenth of what they make to the poor, at no cost.


Jesus was Prophet, Priest, and King. You want to strip away Prophet and King, and leave only half the office of Priest. You've bought into modern evangelicalism's mockery of Jesus, eager to save souls but without compassion for people's whole selves.

 

[Kulindahr]

He didn't overturn the tables of the money lenders in the temple because he was saving souls of sinners.

Well, He did, but that wasn't the only reason. And that's the problem with the position Jack inhabits: it abandons all the other reasons Jesus lived. Today's "evangelicals" love to point out how Jesus referred to Adam and Eve, but they studiously avoid all His references to the Prophets who condemned the accumulation of wealth when others were needy, among a myriad of other things. And they take please in asserting that God will judge nations for embracing iniquity, yet ignore the fact that over and over again the Prophets declared that kingdoms and nations were being judged for their failure to take care of the poor among them, not just because they looked to false gods.

 

[Jack Springer]

Trust me.

You do not know Jesus.

That much is nakedly clear in your analysis and assessment of him.

He didn't overturn the tables of the money lenders in the temple because he was saving souls of sinners.

He was crucified for sedition.

Why not read up on your saviour?

You're missing the main focus of the Bible and the birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. He did all this to save sinners like you and me.

I realize that you probably don't accept the deity of Jesus Christ.

 

[opinterph]

He did all this to save sinners like you and me.

Save them from what, exactly?

 

[Rolyo85]

I personally do not consider myself a sinner. I am a person with good and bad qualities, and I try to make the good rise over the bad. I refuse to accept some naive supposition of default sinfulness I am supposed to have been born with. Not a fan of religions that try to guilt-trip me for what someone else did in a fairy tale, ESPECIALLY when she had every right to do it to being with haha.

 

[rareboy]

You're missing the main focus of the Bible and the birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. He did all this to save sinners like you and me.

I realize that you probably don't accept the deity of Jesus Christ.

And like all those simple folks who think they know and understand the focus of the bible, you are totally missing the main point of the context that frames the entire story.

The Jesus you know is this one dimensional caricature that exists only in dogma and religious rite.

There's way more going on than that. I challenged you last year to read Reza Aslan's book. It is clear that like all the other fundamentalists who refuse to look beyond their Sunday School understanding of the birth of Christianity...that you couldn't be bothered.

 

[dachsieboy2000]

Are you people listening to yourselves? I am pretty sure that Jesus the Christ did not suffer crucifixion or sow his ministry because he was waiting to hear his disciples and followers bicker amongst themselves about his mission. Atheists and agnostics might disbelieve or question his time on earth and be expected to, but it is Christians like the lot of you who drove me from the church with your pomposity and hypocrisy. If you truly accepted the simplicity of his message, you would not be spending your time here having a pissing contest to see who gets the "I know Jesus Best" trophy.

 

[rareboy]

^ Oh God. another one.

The message was simple. His activities during his lifetime were not.

You and Jack can have this fuzzy, non-intellectual approach to Jesus...but biblical and historical scholars find much more to the man and his times than the reductivist caricature that christianity has made out of him and his works.

The man was a social zealot. His disciples were social zealots. That is the point being argued here in relationship to the execution of this inmate.

Not whether 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is a nice thought and essential precept to live by.

In which case, for this inmate...would have involved being shot and then buried alive if we took an old testamentarian view of the phrase.

 

[Jack Springer]

Save them from what, exactly?

Eternal damnation in hell .... forever separated from God.

 

[eastofeden]

Eternal damnation in hell .... forever separated from God.

Hell looks pretty damn good if the other place is populated with people like you. Ten minutes is bad enough but spending an eternity with you and others like yourself would be a personal hell for me.

If Jesus would just save us from his fan club I might give Christianity a second look.

 

[dachsieboy2000]

Thank you, rareboy, for so eloquently confirming my post. I share nothing with Jack Springer, and I deeply resent your inference that I take a non-intellectual approach because I don't share your views. What utter arrogance.

 

[Kulindahr]

The man was a social zealot. His disciples were social zealots. That is the point being argued here in relationship to the execution of this inmate.

This is true, but He was also far more than that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Thank you, rareboy, for so eloquently confirming my post. I share nothing with Jack Springer, and I deeply resent your inference that I take a non-intellectual approach because I don't share your views. What utter arrogance.

Where did he say you "take a non-intellectual approach because [you] don't share [his] views"?

Jesus Himself spent a fair amount of time correcting false views of things, beginning with His refrain of "You have heard that it was said... but I say to you....", and right up to the final statements in the Temple in His final week. To not correct false views is, then, to fail to be imitators of Him.