'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide

[SeaCore]

In your previous post which definition were you invoking? Definition a or b?

Why shield them from gender roles? Is there something wrong with being a man? A woman? Instead of attacking their gender, why not attack the roles? Neuter the roles, not the people.

I think in either case I would have to ask 'Could we neuter those people?'

If gender is the behavioral or psychological traits of a sex I don't know if there's anything we could do to neutralize those things; outside of brain surgery or drugs. In which case I don't understand the concern, that's not remotely what's being discussed in this thread. That definition implies to me pure 'nature' in the nature vs nurture debate.

You're fine with the roles being neutered, which would be the cultural traits associated with a sex. That's pure 'nurture' and as I mentioned earlier; it seems to be demonstrable that when sex roles are reduced well-being increases. Because people aren't being sanctioned by their society for breaking arbitrary roles that have been imposed over something they can't control (more or less), their sex, for behaviors unrelated to their sex.

To try and answer your questions, there's nothing wrong with being a man or woman or intersex for that matter. These are things that are basically out of anyone's control. When I attack 'gender' I'm specifically attacking arbitrary sex roles; which you seem fine with.

I suspect your last point is about the pronouns. My point with the pronouns is that it's strange, to me, that we feel the need to express what sex we think the other person is incessantly. Not all cultures do this. They do have words for 'man' and 'woman' but they don't have gendered pronouns. Do you disagree that a valid definition of 'he' could be 'that assumed penis possessor'? I put in the 'assumed' simply because misgendering is possible and that accounts for it.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I'm not so sure you're right about it not impacting society at all. If I recall Sweden has made an active decision to deemphasis gender roles. If it can be shown to be beneficial to well-being we may end up seeing other countries follow suit. Granted I agree that the method being employed in the article is less likely to proliferate

I don't have to be right. It is just my take on it.

As for Sweden, they are a completely different culture than here among the 350 million souls in this country. Sweden has been aggressively asserting the rights of children for decades now. America has not followed suit, except to the degree that parents have become more indulgent here, which isn't the same thing as children's rights.

And for the record, I respect Sweden's actions, even if I differ with them. They are a great people, and this is their cultural view of child-rearing, which works for them.

 

[peeonme]

This is the most obnoxious, dishonest post I've read in a long time. If you ever float back down to earth holla at'cha girl let's do coffee. If I'm not mistaken you're like near retirement age, yes? If no, disregard. If yes.... that explains your fixation on gender. You grew up in a time where the entirety of a person's existence was mapped out by whether they had a penis or a vagina. there was no gay or straight or drag queens. boys worked and mowed the lawn, girls got pregnant. simple world, not much room for confusion or original thought [a concept more cringe-inducing than the prospect of nuclear war for your generation].

Sorry to inform you them days is gone, women are Ceos now, dads stay at home, girls wear pants and guys are wearing make-up. The world is changing whether you like it or not. Doesn't mean that the people who progress and open their minds to new ideas are bad people or are harming their kids. That's been a common fear tactic from traditionalists who neglect to acknowledge that "their way" isn't exactly a model for success itself. We had gender norms up until now and what were the benefits? we have subservient girls starving themselves to fit an idealistic beauty norm and our boys are so violent that you can arbitrarily poll any five women you see on the street and at least two have experienced rape or domestic abuse, and I'm rounding down.

I'm not even going to insult your intelligence by asking you to list the benefits of these rigid gender codes because I know that you know they aren't any, they're simply a security blanket, one of the few lasting remnants of the culture of yesteryear to save the older generation from being frightened to death of this new world. Let go of your death-like grip on yesterday. It's gone boo.

Well, that's because you don't read your own posts! I will be 66 in a few days and have been retired for 4 years. I have been married for nearly 45 years. I taught my wife how to cook. I always did most of the cooking and grocery shopping. My wife loved to do the yard work such as cut the grass and rake the leaves.
She used to lend a hand on projects such as redoing the bath or kitchen or building a shed or deck. She loved to take the boat out and go fishing. At her prodding I started to watch football. Neither of us wear make up (thank God).
So, to sum it up, as with most of your finger pointing, baseless accusations... you are wrong, wrong, wrong. However, you are consistent, just consistently wrong.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Well, that's because you don't read your own posts! I will be 66 in a few days and have been retired for 4 years. I have been married for nearly 45 years. I taught my wife how to cook. I always did most of the cooking and grocery shopping. My wife loved to do the yard work such as cut the grass and rake the leaves.
She used to lend a hand on projects such as redoing the bath or kitchen or building a shed or deck. She loved to take the boat out and go fishing. At her prodding I started to watch football. Neither of us wear make up (thank God).
So, to sum it up, as with most of your finger pointing, baseless accusations... you are wrong, wrong, wrong. However, you are consistent, just consistently wrong.

As usual, your detractor creates your perspective for you instead of arguing against your actual post or words. You became the straw man for rigid gender roles instead of merely favoring roles. You might as well have a woman chained to the wall of some cargo container on your property if you allow this inveterate troll to speak for you. It really makes replies pointless, as he was never debating you in the first place, only the paper tiger you he needs to rail against people who are not even on JUB.

Just think of all the slobber stains from all that foaming at the mouth.

It's intellectual masturbation.

 

[peeonme]

As usual, your detractor creates your perspective for you instead of arguing against your actual post or words. You became the straw man for rigid gender roles instead of merely favoring roles. You might as well have a woman chained to the wall of some cargo container on your property if you allow this inveterate troll to speak for you. It really makes replies pointless, as he was never debating you in the first place, only the paper tiger you he needs to rail against people who are not even on JUB.

Just think of all the slobber stains from all that foaming at the mouth.

It's intellectual masturbation.

You would think that he had been stalking me from all that he claims to know.

 

[NotHardUp1]

You would think that he had been stalking me from all that he claims to know.

No. It's official. Telly is the only one ever stalked on JUB. He's declared it many times. There can only be one.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Well, that's because you don't read your own posts! I will be 66 in a few days and have been retired for 4 years. I have been married for nearly 45 years. I taught my wife how to cook. I always did most of the cooking and grocery shopping. My wife loved to do the yard work such as cut the grass and rake the leaves.
She used to lend a hand on projects such as redoing the bath or kitchen or building a shed or deck. She loved to take the boat out and go fishing. At her prodding I started to watch football. Neither of us wear make up (thank God).
So, to sum it up, as with most of your finger pointing, baseless accusations... you are wrong, wrong, wrong. However, you are consistent, just consistently wrong.

Actually I'm pretty much on point, all the older guys are in here as per usual shaking their fist at the clouds giving their "Dattain't how it wuz when I wuz growin up" speeche and preaching doom and gloom at the very prospect of change. I was right, right right right right.

 

[Dominus]

Even the great Roman Empire fell.

Rome fell not because of diversity.

 

[mikey3000]

Actually I'm pretty much on point, all the older guys are in here as per usual shaking their fist at the clouds giving their "Dattain't how it wuz when I wuz growin up" speeche and preaching doom and gloom at the very prospect of change. I was right, right right right right.

Nope. You are way off base. You cant force this BS down out throats. Change and diversity are fine but this gender neutral stuff is just a cry for attention. "Today I'm Christopher but tomorrow I'll be Christine, and y'all have to RESPECT MY PRONOUNS! Pffft. I actually wonder how many of theses genderqueer folks have had medical tests done. I suspect many suffer from second child syndrome.

 

[mikey3000]

Rome fell not because of diversity.

Actually it kinda did. Read for yourself...

www.historynet.com/why-rome-fell.htm

 

[Latimer]

Thanks. Excellent. Try these bios to give an additional picture of the times of those most interesting times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odoacer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoderic_the_Great


Of course the original topic of this thread--gender identity--would have been unknown to anyone at the time, and was hardly a cause of the breakup of the empire in the west.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

raise your hand if anyone is trying to "force" this on you like Mikey said

raise your hand if you're surprised that the older "wommenz belawngs in duh kitchen menz belawng in da coal mines" generation heralds this as the end of times

 

[Latimer]

I doubt there are many parents who have decided to rear their children in the manner described. Perhaps there are only one or two, but the right/alt-right press has chosen to represent them as significant and just another example of the foolishness of liberal attitudes. I live in one of the most liberal areas in the country and the families that surround me lead very conventional lives, probably more conventional than many parts of Trump country. The families are very traditionally-minded, and although their politics may be liberal and they may abhor Mr. Trump, they would never consider disregarding the fact of their child's sex.

 

[SeaCore]

The families are very traditionally-minded, and although their politics may be liberal and they may abhor Mr. Trump, they would never consider disregarding the fact of their child's sex.

That's really not what these parents are doing. Sex and gender are regarded as separate things in this context. Where as sex refers to hormones, chromosomes, reproductive tissues, and gametes, gender refers to masculinity and femininity
What is masculine and what is feminine are defined by the time and context and have demonstrably shifted over time.
Because people will tend to try and cultivate masculinity in males and femininity it in females, and the parents object to these arbitrary standards, they're withholding what the kid's sex from other people to make other people drop the gendered (masculine and feminine) pretexts and follow the kid's lead.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The families are very traditionally-minded, and although their politics may be liberal and they may abhor Mr. Trump, they would never consider disregarding the fact of their child's sex.

Clearly if the people around you wouldn't do it then nobody should.