Bradley Manning [merged]

[Lostlover]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

I'm not ignoring the war crimes. In fact, I was the first person on this entire site to mention wikileaks and even praise it for showing how careless some people in uniform were in Iraq.

I didn't like Manning handing over classified info to a weirdo Australian who gets some type of weird satisfaction at releasing sensitive American information.

McKinnon will be rotting at the bottom of a US jail soon. And you can blame British politicians, who you put in office, for having a one-way extradition treaty with us.

And you're splitting hairs. Both the killer doc and Manning are criminals, as they both violated laws. Manning at the least is guilty of being in possession of stolen property. And depending on how you define enemy, Manning is a traitor and his actions could (hopefully) lead to his execution. I'd love to have front row seats to that as his head snaps back from rope.

I like too how you can call his actions praiseworthy while also painting him as a mental nutcase. I'd imagine it is hard to be both.

 

[JB3]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.

Some of what he exposed was good. (good to be exposed, not 'good' good)

On the other hand, however, the douche was so fucking incompetent and ignorant that could have exposed secret missions like the one that ended with the death of Osama Bin Laden. Putting the lives of your fellow soldiers and innocent Americans at risk because of your own warped sense of importance doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a contemptible piece of shit that deserves to spend the rest of your life rotting in a cell.

Oh, and you also do a disservice to people that actually ARE mentally ill by claiming that he is. He's not. He's a deluded piece of garbage that isn't worth the clothes he's wearing.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Some of what he exposed was good. (good to be exposed, not 'good' good)

On the other hand, however, the douche was so fucking incompetent and ignorant that could have exposed secret missions like the one that ended with the death of Osama Bin Laden. Putting the lives of your fellow soldiers and innocent Americans at risk because of your own warped sense of importance doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a contemptible piece of shit that deserves to spend the rest of your life rotting in a cell.

Oh, and you also do a disservice to people that actually ARE mentally ill by claiming that he is. He's not. He's a deluded piece of garbage that isn't worth the clothes he's wearing.

Manning exposed the total lack of security in The Army's communication network. Osama Bin Laden did not need assistance from Bradley Manning.

The Army's communications network security was so inadequate that a private soldier in the middle of the Iraqi desert could access State Department files, download them and then pass them to Wikileaks without suspicion on the part of Manning's supervisors.

I gather that access to State Department computer files, via The Army's communications networks has now been terminated. Better late, than never.

It is crystal clear that Manning has been demonstrating disturbed behaviour patterns, that even propelled his superior officers to recommend his discharge from The Army. Those recommendations were over ruled by more senior officers. Clearly The Army needed Manning's computer/analyst skills, and were prepared to overlook his disturbed personality.

I have my doubts that Manning will be court-martialled if only to spare The Army severe embarrassment in its failure to sufficiently, and adequately protect the security of its communications networks.

If Manning is sentenced to a long term prison term, then so should several senior Army officers, who were ultimately responsible for the security of The Army's communications networks.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

McKinnon will be rotting at the bottom of a US jail soon. And you can blame British politicians, who you put in office, for having a one-way extradition treaty with us.

I doubt that McKinnon will ever be extradited to the United States to stand trial.

The prevailing mood in the British Parliament is to avoid extradition.

British public opinion is also against extradition.

The United States authorities might well elect to soft peddle this matter in the interests of maintaining the harmonious, and close relationship of the United States with the United Kingdom.

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

DADT being repealed and Bradley Manning have very little to do with one another. Bradley manning is a contemptible piece of shit who doesnt have the moral backbone or character to simply adhere to that which he swore to do. I have no use for cowards and traitors. Manning should be tried, convicted and shot.

DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.

When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Total traitor. And a loser. What exactly has he accomplished?

Actually, Manning may be responsible for the "Arab Spring."

The documents Manning (presumably) released included many diplomatic cables about Tunisia. It was this exposure of the decadence and corruption of the Tunisian autocracy that seems to have triggered the revolution there.

Maybe we need to rethink keeping some of this stuff secret in the first place.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

BULL FUCKING SHIT. He could have talked to a counselor and the counselor is REQUIRED to keep the discussions private regardless of DADT.

DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.

When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.

He won't get pardoned. He'll hang.

If they ask me to put the rope around his neck, I'd pay my own way to the facilities just to see him go "night night."

 

[JB3]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Manning exposed the total lack of security in The Army's communication network. Osama Bin Laden did not need assistance from Bradley Manning.

The Army's communications network security was so inadequate that a private soldier in the middle of the Iraqi desert could access State Department files, download them and then pass them to Wikileaks without suspicion on the part of Manning's supervisors.

Except he was allowed to access certain files for his assignment. He just decided to use his access to look at things totally unrelated to it.

I gather that access to State Department computer files, via The Army's communications networks has now been terminated. Better late, than never.

It is crystal clear that Manning has been demonstrating disturbed behaviour patterns, that even propelled his superior officers to recommend his discharge from The Army. Those recommendations were over ruled by more senior officers. Clearly The Army needed Manning's computer/analyst skills, and were prepared to overlook his disturbed personality.

He wasn't disturbed.

I have my doubts that Manning will be court-martialled if only to spare The Army severe embarrassment in its failure to sufficiently, and adequately protect the security of its communications networks.

If Manning is sentenced to a long term prison term, then so should several senior Army officers, who were ultimately responsible for the security of The Army's communications networks.

He'll be court-marshalled, and he will spend the rest of his worthless life in prison.

 

[JB3]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Actually, Manning may be responsible for the "Arab Spring."

The documents Manning (presumably) released included many diplomatic cables about Tunisia. It was this exposure of the decadence and corruption of the Tunisian autocracy that seems to have triggered the revolution there.

Maybe we need to rethink keeping some of this stuff secret in the first place.

That's totally laughable. Manning had nothing to do with that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

^I believe that to spare The Army considerable embarrassment there is the prospect that Manning may be assessed as mentally incompetent to stand trial.

In my opinion Manning has done The Army a great service.

Just imagine the consequences had the Russians, Chinese or even Al Qaeda managed to successfully penetrate The Army's communication network as a result of such inadequate, even painfully poor security.

Yes.

The computer labs at Oregon State University had better security than this! One thing that would have clued them in was that the supervisor could watch and see when files were being copied onto disc; if a large bloc of information was being moved, his screen flashed a warning.

And for class-specific files, you had to have a code from your professor, and sign in at the desk to indicate what programs you would be using.

Beyond that, it wasn't possible to reach into faculty or admin files without triggering an alarm.

Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.

At root LostLover is a bloodthirsty authoritarian.

Though it's not clear that Manning is mentally ill. OTOH, from the way they're treating him, he probably is by now. In fact, a psychologist I know said it looks to him that they're trying to get Manning determined to kill himself -- and then one day there will be a "mistake", and he'll have access to the means.

I reckon Mr.McKinnon should be rewarded with a cash bonus, and well paid consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to ensure that the security systems of the DOD are maintained at a level to deny hacking to America's enemies.

That's been done before on lower levels than this. As an example, a hacker at OSU who managed to bypass the security software and get into admin files got a plea deal where he got a seven year prison sentence -- suspended as long as he worked at OSU "and associated institutions" upgrading their security. That was before what I described above! Friends now say their computer system security is tighter than a submarine hatch.

DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.

This, plus something else: how many gays did they throw out who had skills that were needed? Translators, communications techs, analysts, and almost certainly computer techs have been ditched out of bigotry. Without DADT, Manning would have been discharged the first time and not sucked back into the system.

When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.

For certain. No one did anything to inspire him, to generate loyalty, to make him feel part of a team. In an all-volunteer army that's still necessary; a military without esprit de corps is a military waiting to become corpses.

Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.

Pardon? No. He did it, for whatever motive, and can't be allowed to forget that.

But presidents can also commute sentences. Were I president, I'd do that -- and put him to work. Anytime he wanted to quit, he could go back to the brig.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

That's totally laughable. Manning had nothing to do with that.

Don't be so certain. The State Department as well as Tunisian dissidents admitted that material in what Manning passed to Wikileaks had a bearing on the views of the Tunisian regime and contributed to action.

But the pot was already brewing; the leaked material may have been just the straw that broke the camel's back -- of itself, hardly worth looking at, but on top of the rest, the beginning of an avalanche. Or it may have been reading one of those pieces that stirred an activist to say "Time to act", and started the ball rolling. It's one of those things we'll never know, most likely.

But to deny it played any part is ridiculous.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

To you bloodthirsty types calling for death or lifelong solitary or other imprisonment:

in a technical sense, what he did is arguably not treason. He didn't betray the country to any enemy, he didn't turn over information to some country to give it advantage. Those are the things that make for treason, but what Manning did was to release information to anyone listening/reading, including the U.S. It's as if a spy stole information and didn't just hand it to his employer, but mailed a copy to everyone -- including the ones he stole it from. He made it a level playing field: while the world can read what were U.S. secrets (and laugh at us for some of the things kept secret), the U.S. can see exactly what was released. Ultimately, that's why the Wikileaks release was a ripple, not a tsunami: when the enemy knows something and you don't know either what he knows or that he knows, there is betrayal, there is damage, there is major advantage; but when everyone knows, the advantage is gone.
It's a new age as far as information; we need a new crime definition.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

He wasn't disturbed.

Um... all the evidence says otherwise.

Not excusing it by any means, he deserves a long prison sentence. But clearly he did have issues from the statements he made and the evaluating officers opinions.

 

[JB3]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Um... all the evidence says otherwise.

Not excusing it by any means, he deserves a long prison sentence. But clearly he did have issues from the statements he made and the evaluating officers opinions.

Everyone has issues. But the issues he had doesn't absolve him or excuse his actions.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Everyone has issues. But the issues he had doesn't absolve him or excuse his actions.

So basically you were just saying that he was not disturbed enough to warrant the insanity defense or something that would get him off. I do agree with that.

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

BULL FUCKING SHIT. He could have talked to a counselor and the counselor is REQUIRED to keep the discussions private regardless of DADT.

Apparently, you didn't read your comic book.

http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/15.html

http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/16.html


Military counselors (even military mental health professionals) reported (report) homosexuality under DADT when military patients seeking help confided (confide) such in them. Attempting to seek therapy for any problem in which a homosexual relationship is revealed could (and did) lead to discharge.

Bradly Manning could not get help for his problems because the military would not allow it. He could not even confide in a friend without risking discharge. None of the normal, human means by which we all seek comfort for the traumas of life was available to him.

When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

Apparently, you didn't read your comic book.

http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/15.html

http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/16.html


Military counselors (even military mental health professionals) reported (report) homosexuality under DADT when military patients seeking help confided (confide) such in them. Attempting to seek therapy for any problem in which a homosexual relationship is revealed could (and did) lead to discharge.

Bradly Manning could not get help for his problems because the military would not allow it. He could not even confide in a friend without risking discharge. None of the normal, human means by which we all seek comfort for the traumas of life was available to him.

When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior.

About the only definitely confidential avenue would have been if he'd been able to talk with a Catholic (or similar) chaplain whose church recognizes the seal of the confessional, and made it a matter of confession. Priests/pastors who stand in such a tradition have proven sufficiently stubborn that the military doesn't even bother to try to break them.

Confidentiality with mental health professionals in the military is problematic, because the person seeking help is not the employer, the military is -- so the interaction is subject to rules set by the actual employer.

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Bradley Manning - video report

^ Some chaplains in the military have made news by refusing to consider marrying gay couples and agitating for the protection of anti-gay hate speech within the military.

And the Catholic church is officially anti-gay, so I'm not sure Manning would have felt comfortable approaching a priest. Even if he had, the vow of silence only applies to the confessional. I doubt that Manning was seeking to confess to the sin of homosexuality as a means of dealing with his problems.

In any case, chaplains and lawyers (the only people with whom Manning could have discussed his problems with even a hope of confidence) are not really appropriate substitutes for mental health professionals. With due respect to the chaplains and lawyers of the military, they're not necessarily even appropriate substitutes for friends.