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CA Prop 8 - news and alerts [updated & merged]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soilwork
  • Start date Start date
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Ya, I've gotten a lot of praise PMs and comments over this. And to be honest, it's really sad that you all are thankful for my support. It's what we're supposed to do as citizens! Demand equality! It's what we're supposed to do as Christians! Treat everyone as we'd like to be treated! It's what we're supposed to do as voters! Wade through all the emotions and bull shit and get down to the legal rights which are at stake!

So, thanks so much for the kind words, but I'm only doing what I'm supposed to do. Really.

Anyhow you can look the other way, but you don't... and that is deserving of praise and gratitude.

PS: the same goes to darlingstacy and all the other straight people who stand by us (*8*)
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

You don't have to be Christian to want to treat everyone as we'd like to be treated. I'm pretty much Athiest and I've always held that standard. Sometimes to a fault. It's gotten me in trouble many times here.

But I agree that we're just doing what we're supposed to do. I don't feel obligated or put out. It's just how I was taught, how I would like people to treat me, and how I like to behave.

I wasn't suggesting that only Christians want to treat everyone as equals. I just happen to be one and was responding to Lugus. I have to make that part clear b/c the anti-Christian sentiment is HOT on JUB and believe me gals and guys, I'm not trying to convert anyone or somehow suggest that Christians are number one in the moral department.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

There are too many pages in this thread for me to look back in, so I do not know if this has been addressed yet........But this does not affect ONLY gay people. In states where Prop 8 type laws have now passed there will be no such thing as domestic partnership for gay OR straight couples. Also this makes Common Law Marriages (unmarried couples with proof of a monogamous sexual/financial set up more more that <I think it's> 7 years) no longer legal (not as common now as many years ago, but picture adults who have parents that were common law married). http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/709FAEE4-ABEA-4E17-BA34836388313A3C
Domestic abuse shelters will ONLY be able to take in and protect MARRIED woman. Hospitals can now disallow straight "partners" from visiting members in the hospitals where cases allow for "family only". No more joint filing of taxes for anyone not married. So many rights that straight people voted against for US are now going to be taken away from THEM.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Spensed, it comes down to the separate but equal argument. Having both civil unions and marriage being totally the same means absolutely nothing when they have a different name.

There are two definitions, there; not one. If there was one type of union, it would be equal. With two types, even if they mean the same thing, they are not equal.
 
California voters approve gay-marriage ban

LOS ANGELES – In an election otherwise full of liberal triumphs, the gay rights movement suffered a stunning defeat as California voters approved a ban on same-sex marriages that overrides a recent court decision legalizing them.

The constitutional amendment — widely seen as the most momentous of the nation's 153 ballot measures — will limit marriage to heterosexual couples, the first time such a vote has taken place in a state where gay unions are legal.

Gay-rights activists had a rough election elsewhere as well. Ban-gay-marriage amendments were approved in Arizona and Florida, and Arkansas voters approved a measure banning unmarried couples from serving as adoptive or foster parents. Supporters made clear that gays and lesbians were their main target.

In California, with 95 percent of precincts reporting Wednesday, the ban had 5,125,752 votes, or 52 percent, while there were 4,725,313 votes, or 48 percent, opposed.

Similar bans had prevailed in 27 states before Tuesday's elections, but none were in California's situation — with about 18,000 gay couples married since a state Supreme Court ruling in May. The state attorney general, Jerry Brown, has said those marriages will remain valid, although legal challenges are possible.

Spending for and against the amendment reached $74 million, making it the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House.

Elsewhere, voters in Colorado and South Dakota rejected measures that could have led to sweeping bans of abortion, and Washington became only the second state — after Oregon — to offer terminally ill people the option of physician-assisted suicide.

A first-of-its-kind measure in Colorado, which was defeated soundly, would have defined life as beginning at conception. Its opponents said the proposal could lead to the outlawing of some types of birth control as well as abortion.

The South Dakota measure would have banned abortions except in cases of rape, incest and serious health threat to the mother. A tougher version, without the rape and incest exceptions, lost in 2006. Anti-abortion activists thought the modifications would win approval, but the margin of defeat was similar, about 55 percent to 45 percent of the vote.

"The lesson here is that Americans, in states across the country, clearly support women's ability to access abortion care without government interference," said Vicki Saporta, president of the National Abortion Federation.

In Washington, voters gave solid approval to an initiative modeled after Oregon's "Death with Dignity" law, which allows a terminally ill person to be prescribed lethal medication they can administer to themselves. Since Oregon's law took effect in 1997, more than 340 people — mostly ailing with cancer — have used it to end their lives.

The marijuana reform movement won two prized victories, with Massachusetts voters decriminalizing possession of small amounts of the drug and Michigan joining 12 other states in allowing use of pot for medical purposes.

Henceforth, people caught in Massachusetts with an ounce or less of pot will no longer face criminal penalties. Instead, they'll forfeit the marijuana and pay a $100 civil fine.

The Michigan measure will allow severely ill patients to register with the state and legally buy, grow and use small amounts of marijuana to relieve pain, nausea, appetite loss and other symptoms.

Nebraska voters, meanwhile, approved a ban on race- and gender-based affirmative action, similar to measures previously approved in California, Michigan and Washington. Returns in Colorado on a similar measure were too close to call.

Ward Connerly, the California activist-businessman who has led the crusade against affirmative action, said Obama's victory proved his point. "We have overcome the scourge of race," Connerly said.

Energy measures met a mixed fate. In Missouri, voters approved a measure requiring the state's three investor-owned electric utilities to get 15 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by 2021. But California voters defeated an even more ambitious measure that would have required the state's utilities to generate half their electricity from windmills, solar systems, geothermal reserves and other renewable sources by 2025.

Two animal-welfare measures passed — a ban on dog racing in Massachusetts, and a proposition in California that outlaws cramped cages for egg-laying chickens.

Amid deep economic uncertainty, proposals to cut state income taxes were defeated decisively in North Dakota and Massachusetts.

In San Francisco, an eye-catching local measure — to bar arrests for prostitution — was soundly rejected. Police and political leaders said it would hamper the fight against sex trafficking. And in San Diego, voters decided to make permanent a ban on alcohol consumption on city beaches.

Source: Yahoo News

Very disappointed about this! :mad:
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Alpha I thought of your idea in college.

Since there was no gay or lesbian support group and so many guys were closeted. I was thinking of admitting I was gay then doing my best, getting good grades, making friends and being what straight people consider normal and showing everyone that gays are just people.

But can that really break the illusion of religion on some people who would die for their religion?
 
Re: California voters approve gay-marriage ban

..Bastards.

But how come?

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/state/#CA

This so stupid though. It was amazing once gay marriage was allowed in California and it was a great day.

But we saw this challenge coming. How right is that though.

To give gay's rights and then go, "Oops sorry lol no rights for you we were kidding"

Sickening..

I guess the methods we have been using aren't working.

Time to try something new?

Or wait for the dinosaurs to become extinct.
 
Actually, we need to take a leaf out of the enemy's book - the Mormon church.

I mean, look at them, they're not that liked by many people, but they have immense resources and the power to pull this off. Why couldn't we do the same? Or look at the Jewsih lobby.

We need to think long-term. We need to create LGBT leaders in fields of law, politics, business, academia, etc that can join together to turn society into our favor. While the gay rights activitists have done excellently so far, haven't all the attempts been short term plans? We should also add some long-range visions to the short-term goals.

I'm not so sure about the hopes for future generations. I mean, didn't the current older generation grow up in the 60's when open-mindedness and love were something they were fighting for? Now look at them. I'm worried as the current younger generation ages, their minds will close just as their parents' have.
We should stop relying too much outside the LGBT community. Support from outside is great, but should be considered an added bonus and we should be able to survive without it.

I'm pretty much Athiest and I've always held that standard. Sometimes to a fault. It's gotten me in trouble many times here.
While we shouldn't rely on them too much, the atheist movement shouldn't be underestimated; they're good allies.
 
I hope that this offends California as much as I'm offended by them.​


jitcrunch.aspx
 
Yves, you are dead on! I couldn't help but notice that these businesses were funneling money into CA, but not into FL or AR which also voted on gay rights. I sort of have a silly conspiracy theory regarding the corporations which spent big bucks in support of Prop 8....

I sort of think this is all about money--employers not wanting to pay out insurance money. Admittedly, CA already had a statute which allows for Domestic Partnerships (hereinafter DP) and under DP the partner can get insurance benefits from their spouses employer. Whether yeah or nay, Prop. 8 wasn't going to change that. But, we all think of CA as a liberal state, and it contains a very high number of lesbians and gay. So, a gay marriage defeat in CA is a hard blow to LGBT morale. The same just isn't true for FL or AR--we really didn't expect much from them to begin w/. They're both in the Bible belt south.

So, gay marriage fails in our go to state, and so there's nary a whisper for gay marriage in the rest of the states. We're defeated, so why bother. People aren't going to change. Now, the corporations don't have to worry about paying for gay spousal insurance. They also don't have to worry about paying for extra Paternity leave. And, if gay marriage were to become legal, the discrim. laws might be next. Right now, sexuality isn't protected under federal employment discrimination laws. Keeping it that way is more cost effective for this businesses. They won't have to pay for any extra sensitivity training for their employees. And things like that.

I don't know. It does sound kind of silly and I'm not sure that are enough gays and lesbians in the U.S. to impact the corporations enough to make donating those big bucks worth it. I just can't see these business entities funneling millions into a state proposition simply on the basis of morality.
 
I am indeed sorry to have to face the fact that California is a diverse state, and apparently a lot of people went to a lot of trouble to stomp all over the gay community. This does serve to confirm the view I have had for a long time about California, that aside from the San Francisco Bay area, much of California is the home of the John Birch Society.

Even most Church congregations around here are more enlightened. I suppose it will be incumbent for people to keep bringing up the issue by referendum until it is restored. Good luck.
Shep+:cry:](*,):cry:](*,):help::eek:
 
Where's metta?

Does anyone have his cell number?

I hope he's okay.

We love you metta (*8*)

and Matthew (but I know you're away from your computer).

edit: Ah you're here - I was reading the last few posts before I posted.

How are you L?


Hi Noelie,

I'm here. Thanks for (*8*)

Honestly, I'm angry! As I said previously, this fight will continue. I don't know what the next step is but we are going to take it what ever it is.
 
Always know that many of us heteros are with you in this fight.

(*8*)


(*8*) I love that you support us. To be honest. I'm not mad at religious people. I'm not mad at straight people. I'm mad at people that voted for prop 8. I'm mad that we have so many poorly educated people and that we have to suffer because of it. I'm mad that so many people consider us to be 'sinners' just because of who we are. I'm mad that so many people feel that they are better human beings because they are not gay.
 
Metta where did you find that image of California=Discrimination?
 
Ironically, if it hadn't been for the huge black turnout due to Obama, prop 8 wouldn't have passed.

Would there be a way to get rid of the Mormon church's tax exempt status over this?
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Spensed, it comes down to the separate but equal argument. Having both civil unions and marriage being totally the same means absolutely nothing when they have a different name.

There are two definitions, there; not one. If there was one type of union, it would be equal. With two types, even if they mean the same thing, they are not equal.

I don't disagree with you. But sometimes it's better to take what you can get and get the rest later.

I thought exactly as you do until I saw what is happening in England at least by what I read and hear. There is no practical difference between an English couple in a civil union and a Spanish couple in a marriage. And common sense suggests that England could flip over into marriage at some point with nothing like the resistance it would have met up front.

That's alls I'm saying.

By the way, as per Google News, the law suits opposing Prop 8 on constitutional and other grounds have already started.
 
I was very angry, bitter, and sad earlier today that prop 8 passed. It was a crushing blow. But I looked at CNN and saw that the Boomers were neutral, younger people were overwhelmingly against it, and it was the old folks that really killed us. Maybe there's some hope that things will change in 5 years, maybe 10. Ultimately, I blame this on a constitutional amendment system that requires only a majority vote, and not a supermajority (though I can't say this too loud--Minnesota is the same way).

When I saw Obama giving the victory speech last night, I thought about the similarities and differences between the black civil rights movement and the gay civil rights movement. The main difference that I saw was that we don't have a leader. Blacks had Martin Luther King, Jr. We don't have anyone. We need someone to step forward and lead, preferably someone from a faith background to be able to do battle against the conservatives. We need someone to rally behind. We're in disarray--grassroots things start out that way. But the successful ones have a great leader at the top.

So who wants to step up to the plate?

[takes ten steps backward]
 
An email from the HRC


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Unfortunate news has dimmed the exhilaration of this historic, life-changing election.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]I am deeply disappointed to report anti-LGBT marriage bans passed in Florida and Arizona, and in Arkansas voters voted to bar all unmarried people, LGBT or straight, from adopting children or serving as foster parents.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Meanwhile media outlets have begun to report bad news for marriage equality in California. However, the Human Rights Campaign just participated in a conference call with our coalition partners and we firmly believe that all votes should be counted before calling the race. Several million votes in California have yet to be counted. Now is not the time to speculate on somebody’s fundamental rights. So we are waiting to see the final results from those ballots and will be issuing a statement after the race has been called. Please stay tuned. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]While this news certainly put a damper on such a historic election, we should celebrate the fact that our movement came together in an unprecedented way, and worked tirelessly to defeat these amendments, and millions voted with us yesterday.

[FONT=arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]It is indeed a bitter pill to swallow. But we cannot allow distorted facts or shallow tactics – the foundation on which our opponents built their campaigns – to break our spirits. We are on the right side of history – and we will continue this journey.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Let us not forget that we saw many glimmers of hope for LGBT equality across the country last night. We increased the ranks of pro-equality lawmakers in both the House and the Senate. Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO), ringleader of the campaign to write discrimination into the U.S. Constitution, was soundly defeated. Jared Polis (D-CO) became the first openly gay man ever to be elected to Congress as a non-incumbent. Democrats took the New York State Senate, giving us our best chance ever to pass a same-sex marriage law in a legislature. We beat back a ballot question in Connecticut that could have threatened our recent victory there. In fact, marriages begin next week. And we elected Barack Obama as our next President, ending eight years of anti-LGBT policies. I truly believe that despite these setbacks, our nation is moving in the right direction.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]After fighting for years, so many victories are now within reach. And thanks to yesterday’s victories, we can now pass critical LGBT equality measures like the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act and begin unraveling the damage of the last eight years.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]I vow to you today that HRC will not give up, nor will we retreat. Moving forward, HRC will:[/FONT]

  • Continue our efforts to win incremental victories for relationship recognition, so that legally married lesbian and gay couples in Massachusetts and Connecticut have full standing under federal law; the same holds true for civil unions and domestic partnerships in places like New Hampshire, Vermont and Oregon.

    Use amendments and other legislative vehicles in Congress to establish growing equality for LGBT Americans under federal tax, Social Security, pension, insurance and other laws – piecing together as many of the rights of marriage as we can until the full victory is achieved in years to come.
  • Work with our allies in New York to make good on the extraordinary opportunity presented by the election of a new fair-minded majority in the State Senate, which paves the way for the nation's first-ever legislatively achieved marriage equality victory. We are also simultaneously working on marriage equality in New Jersey.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Together, like we have done some many times before, we fought the good fight until the bitter end. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]In Florida, HRC contributed $120,000 to Florida Red & Blue (backers of the SayNo2 campaign), including $50,000 of early seed money that allowed the campaign to raise significant additional funds and provided high-level fundraising consulting for the campaign. We started building an early base for campaign operations by sending staff to Florida and conducting volunteer trainings during the January Presidential Primary. We held a Camp Equality election skills training in Fort Lauderdale and mobilized hundreds of volunteers. And in the final weeks, four additional HRC staffers and a Campaign College participant were sent to work on the ground in Florida. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]In Arizona, HRC contributed $50,000 to Arizona Together for media production and air time. We had three HRC staffers and one Campaign College participant on the ground. We also held a Camp Equality election skills training in Phoenix and mobilized the participants to work on this issue.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]In Arkansas, HRC provided half of the funding necessary for the Arkansas Families First campaign to hire a campaign manager. We deployed a Campaign College participant to work on the campaign for 12 weeks, and an HRC staffer to work on the campaign during the final push.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]And in California, HRC participated fully as a member of the marriage coalition executive committee, with unprecedented on-the-ground support, and extensive voter mobilization efforts. I am proud that HRC was the second largest funder of No on Prop. 8, behind Equality California, in what ended up being the most expensive campaign in the nation next to the presidential race. When all was said and done, HRC and our members invested nearly $3.5 million directly to the efforts in California. But our messages of fairness and reason were met with appalling messages of fear, distortion and downright hate that our opponents put forth on television, on radio, across the Internet, and in Sunday sermons. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]In 2000, a similar marriage ban in California was passed by a margin of 61% to 39%. So the closeness of this race and the positive shift in public opinion underscores that it is only a matter of time before we add more states to the march for marriage equality. As Obama said last night, “That's the true genius of America – that America can change.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Yesterday, an unfortunate majority of voters stood with the most extreme and negative elements of society to deny the rights of loving and committed gay and lesbian couples. But it’s not the first time that has happened to us, and it won’t be the last. It doesn’t change the fact that we are married. It doesn’t change the fact that we have families. Make no mistake. We are bowed, but not discouraged. We are sad, but not disheartened. We grieve, but not as those who are without hope. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Today we will mourn the losses in Florida, Arizona and Arkansas, but tomorrow let's resolve to lift one another up, and continue our march forward.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif]Remember, our marriages didn’t begin with a decision of the court, and they will not end with a vote of the people. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warmly,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Joe Solmonese
President
[/FONT]

[/FONT]​
[/FONT]​
[/FONT]​
[/FONT]​
[/FONT]​
 
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