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CA Prop 8 - news and alerts [updated & merged]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soilwork
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^Really? Why?

Well, I really like oxygen so I wouldn't hold my breath either. But I do believe gay civil rights are on the cusp of a breakthrough. So, why do you believe otherwise? Do you think it'll ever happen?
 
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I believe a proposition to repeal Proposition 8 would need either 60 or 68 percent approval by the electorate.

But yes, people could try to put such a proposition on the ballot. However it takes a lot of money to do so, and it's unlikely to pass with a supermajority like that.

Usually, if you can do something by a simple majority, you can undo it with a simple majority.

Where are you getting the idea of a super-majority from? Maybe you're thinking of the Florida anti-gay initiative which did require 60% and got it and which would presumably need the same 60%+ vote to reverse.

Whether the voter support is there is another question, but, unless you know otherwise, from what I've read, Prop 8 in California can be reversed by a simple majority voting on a future Proposition.

Hopefully, the courts will nullify Prop 8 in any event.
 
^I'm an atty. I got the Sup. Crt down. Thanks for the info though. I was responding to the post above me which stated essentially that EVEN IF Obama landed us another liberal judge, gay rights still wouldn't happen. Maybe I misunderstood his post though. Goodness knows I do that a lot

On another note, I'm glad to see ya around again!
 
Something to keep in mind is that there are a million votes left to count, so Proposition 8 isn't necessarily a law yet, especially considering how close the vote was. Also, it may fail before judicial review, especially in light of the Brown vs. School Board decision ("separate and equal" not being acceptable).

So I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet...even then, I think that the repeal will be on the next ballot.

RG
 
^Okay, you live in CA. I gotta ask, why are there votes left to count? Are these absentee ballots? Did you all vote by paper ballot on election night instead of electronically? Do they need volunteer vote counters--I'm ready to help them. Sheesh!
 
Something to keep in mind is that there are a million votes left to count, so Proposition 8 isn't necessarily a law yet, especially considering how close the vote was. Also, it may fail before judicial review, especially in light of the Brown vs. School Board decision ("separate and equal" not being acceptable).

So I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet...even then, I think that the repeal will be on the next ballot.

RG

I heard it's 3 million.

It seems that all the major news station have declared Prop 8 a winner.
 
The petition challenging Prop. 8 has already been filed. I can't attach the PDF's but go to lambdalegal.com
The first pg will link you. You can read all the arguments that will be made, and all the points of law that are being used to challenge Prop. 8
 
I heard it's 3 million.

It seems that all the major news station have declared Prop 8 a winner.


The number might be around 1.7 million according to some estimates (LA Times):

(...)
The exact number of those ballots remains unclear -- officials said they had no precise count. But a survey by Times reporters of the state's registrars indicated that more than 1.7 million ballots probably remained uncounted. To change the outcome on Proposition 8, the opponents would have to win about two-thirds of those votes, which campaign strategists privately conceded was highly improbable.
(...)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gaymarriage6-2008nov06,0,6187089,full.story
 
CNN said it was 3 million yesterday. Have they started counting it?
 
A bit shocking, exit polls reveal 7/10 black voters voted YES on 8


So my neighbor told me that a local high school had their own mock election. This is in a city that is very conservative and mostly Republican. Many of the children come from families that are very comfortable and you could see Yes On 8 signs and McCain signs all over the city, almost exclusively. There are a lot of churches in this city, including a very large Mormon church. Here are the results:

"The results were announced over the intercom during one of the class periods. When Proposition 8 was to be announced, she said their was a meaningful pause with uncharacteristic silence. Then the announcement was made that the Junior and Senior class of the HS defeated the measure with 60% of the vote.

She said it was wonderful for her because she could hear the cheers, not only from her own classroom ... but from the other classrooms down the hall and from the classrooms in other buildings throughout the halls.

There is always hope in the sincere idealism of youth."
 
^Okay, you live in CA. I gotta ask, why are there votes left to count? Are these absentee ballots? Did you all vote by paper ballot on election night instead of electronically? Do they need volunteer vote counters--I'm ready to help them. Sheesh!
Keep in mind that people had until Election Day to get their mail-in ballots to the place where they would be counted, and those ballots need to be dealt with by hand. Along with absentee ballots, and it can get really onerous really quick....

RG
 
Nancy Pelosi on the Passage of Prop 8
"I am deeply disappointed by the passage of Proposition 8. This ballot measure takes away individual rights and freedoms, and is rooted in the politics of division.

"The passage of this measure diminishes the California Constitution. We must continue to fight for equal treatment of all of California's citizens and families. I strongly support the legal challenges underway to halt this dangerous revision of our State Constitution."

http://www.noonprop8.com/articles/2008/11/06/nancy-pelosi-on-the-passage-of-prop-8/#extended

A California Embarassment

The election in California had two faces. One is pride that a large majority voted for the man who would be the first African-American president of the United States. The second is the embarrassment of changing the Constitution to impose restrictions on the rights of a minority in California.

http://www.impre.com/laopinion/opinion/editorial/2008/11/6/a-california--embarrassment-91362-1.html


 
Usually, if you can do something by a simple majority, you can undo it with a simple majority.

Where are you getting the idea of a super-majority from? Maybe you're thinking of the Florida anti-gay initiative which did require 60% and got it and which would presumably need the same 60%+ vote to reverse.

Whether the voter support is there is another question, but, unless you know otherwise, from what I've read, Prop 8 in California can be reversed by a simple majority voting on a future Proposition.

Hopefully, the courts will nullify Prop 8 in any event.

I'm certainly no expert on this, but someone on MSNBC from California said (before the election took place), that once the California constitution has been amended, it takes a supermajority (and I believe she said 60%) to repeal the amendment.
 
From The HRC
On Tuesday night, our community felt the emotions of electing a pro-equality President and expanding our numbers in Congress and state houses across the country, but the next morning our hearts were broken as the dust settled and it was clear we lost the marriage ballot measures in California, Florida and Arizona. I will certainly provide you with further insight in the coming days to how we effectively organized and motivated LGBT voters in elections throughout the country, but today, as we find ourselves in this agonizing intersection of victory and defeat, I felt it was important to try and give some perspective about our losses.

I've drafted the following op-ed that I wanted to share with you. I know that mere words aren't enough to provide the salve for our wounds that we desperately need but perhaps they will begin to shape a path for how we move forward. And for those of you who gave your time and resources, your sacrifices were not in vain. You've helped lay the foundation for the victory that will one day be ours. And I thank you.

You can't take this away from me: Proposition 8 broke our hearts, but it did not end our fight.

Like many in our movement, I found myself in Southern California last weekend. There, I had the opportunity to speak with a man who said that Proposition 8 completely changed the way he saw his own neighborhood. Every "Yes on 8" sign was a slap. For this man, for me, for the 18,000 couples who married in California, to LGBT people and the people who love us, its passage was worse than a slap in the face. It was nothing short of heartbreaking.

But it is not the end. Fifty-two percent of the voters of California voted to deny us our equality on Tuesday, but they did not vote our families or the power of our love out of existence; they did not vote us away.

As free and equal human beings, we were born with the right to equal families. The courts did not give us this right—they simply recognized it. And although California has ceased to grant us marriage licenses, our rights are not subject to anyone's approval. We will keep fighting for them. They are as real and as enduring as the love that moves us to form families in the first place. There are many roads to marriage equality, and no single roadblock will prevent us from ultimately getting there.
And yet there is no denying, as we pick ourselves up after losing this most recent, hard-fought battle, that we've been injured, many of us by neighbors who claim to respect us.

By the same token, we know that we are moving in the right direction. In 2000, California voters passed Proposition 22 by a margin of 61.4% to 38.6%. On Tuesday, fully 48% of Californians rejected Proposition 8. It wasn't enough, but it was a massive shift. Nationally, although two other anti-marriage ballot measures won, Connecticut defeated an effort to hold a constitutional convention ending marriage, New York's state legislature gained the seats necessary to consider a marriage law, and FMA architect Marilyn Musgrave lost her seat in Congress. We also elected a president who supports protecting the entire community from discrimination and who opposes discriminatory amendments.

Yet on Proposition 8 we lost at the ballot box, and I think that says something about this middle place where we find ourselves at this moment. In 2003, twelve states still had sodomy laws on the books, and only one state had civil unions. Four years ago, marriage was used to rile up a right-wing base, and we were branded as a bigger threat than terrorism. In 2008, most people know that we are not a threat. Proposition 8 did not result from a popular groundswell of opposition to our rights, but was the work of a small core of people who fought to get it on the ballot. The anti-LGBT message didn't rally people to the polls, but unfortunately when people got to the polls, too many of them had no problem with hurting us. Faced with an economy in turmoil and two wars, most Californians didn't choose the culture war. But faced with the question—brought to them by a small cadre of anti-LGBT hardliners – of whether our families should be treated differently from theirs, too many said yes.
But even before we do the hard work of deconstructing this campaign and readying for the future, it's clear to me that our continuing mandate is to show our neighbors who we are.

Justice Lewis Powell was the swing vote in Bowers, the case that upheld Georgia's sodomy law and that was reversed by Lawrence v. Texas five years ago. When Bowers was pending, Powell told one of his clerks "I don't believe I've ever met a homosexual." Ironically, that clerk was gay, and had never come out to the Justice. A decade later, Powell admitted his vote to uphold Georgia's sodomy law was a mistake.

Everything we've learned points to one simple fact: people who know us are more likely to support our equality.

In recent years, I've been delivering this positive message: tell your story. Share who you are. And in fact, as our families become more familiar, support for us increases. But make no mistake: I do not think we have to audition for equality. Rather, I believe that each and every one of us who has been hurt by this hateful ballot measure, and each and every one of us who is still fighting to be equal, has to confront the neighbors who hurt us. We have to say to the man with the Yes on 8 sign—you disrespected my humanity, and I am not giving you a pass. I am not giving you a pass for explaining that you tolerate me, while at the same time denying that my family has a right to exist. I do not give you permission to say you have me as a "gay friend" when you cast a vote against my family, and my rights.

Wherever you are, tell a neighbor what the California Supreme Court so wisely affirmed: that you are equal, you are human, and that being denied equality harms you materially. Although I, like our whole community, am shaken by Prop 8's passage, I am not yet ready to believe that anyone who knows us as human beings and understands what is at stake would consciously vote to harm us.
This is not over. In California, our legal rights have been lost, but our human rights endure, and we will continue to fight for them.
Warmly,
Joe Solmonese
President, Human Rights Campaign





Repeal Prop 8

http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/repealprop8
 
^I'm an atty. I got the Sup. Crt down. Thanks for the info though. I was responding to the post above me which stated essentially that EVEN IF Obama landed us another liberal judge, gay rights still wouldn't happen. Maybe I misunderstood his post though. Goodness knows I do that a lot

On another note, I'm glad to see ya around again!
My opinion is that being a "Democrat" hardly necessitates being truly "liberal" or pro-gay civil rights to the majority of Americans. People are far too consumed with adhering to misconceptions of what it means to be politically "balanced" to do the right thing...that is, unless they're conservative, in which case they don't care about doing anything other than what their party/traditions tell them. So let me restate that: "liberals" are too concerned about appearing liberal to stand up for their beliefs.

Is Obama an outspoken friend to queers? Not really. He tows the line of "political cool" and political peer pressure despite a possible lean toward queer rights. Michelle is fine writing a vague letter to the Advocate...Drop the word "Stonewall" and all the queers will perk their ears up.

People are too afraid to take the risks to stand up for what's right (and what's "left"). That leaves us to the dogs. I don't believe that queer civil rights won't happen. I just don't think the people representing the majority have the character in them for us to depend on them at all.
 
I'm certainly no expert on this, but someone on MSNBC from California said (before the election took place), that once the California constitution has been amended, it takes a supermajority (and I believe she said 60%) to repeal the amendment.

As I say, I don't think that's right. He or she may have been talking about Florida or a two thirds requirement in the California legislature for a constitutional revision before it's put to the voters.

But that doesn't change the fact that, in the case of a voter initiated constitutional change, like Prop 8, it can be changed back by the simple majority that made the change in the first place.

Not that Wikipedia is Gospel, but it's often a good start:

California

There are three methods for proposing an amendment the California State Constitution: by the legislature, by constitutional convention, and by voter initiative. To become part of the constitution, a proposed amendment must be approved by a majority of voters, regardless of the method by which it was proposed.

With the legislative method, a proposed amendment must be approved by an absolute supermajority of two-thirds of the membership of each house.

With the convention method, the legislature may, by a two-thirds absolute supermajority, submit to the voters at a general election the question whether to call a convention to revise the Constitution. If the majority of the voters vote yes on that question, within six months the Legislature shall provide for the convention. Delegates to a constitutional convention shall be voters elected from districts as nearly equal in population as may be practicable. The constitution does not provide many rules for the operation of the constitutional convention.

With the initiative method, an amendment is proposed by a petition signed by voters equal in number to 8 percent of the votes for all candidates for governor at the last gubernatorial election. The proposed amendment is then submitted to the voters at a general or special election.


Hopefully, the current lawsuits will nullify Prop 8 on the basis that it's a revision that should have gone through the legislature before being put to the voters and/or because it contradicts other provisions of the California Constitution or whatever.
 
The petition challenging Prop. 8 has already been filed. I can't attach the PDF's but go to lambdalegal.com
The first pg will link you. You can read all the arguments that will be made, and all the points of law that are being used to challenge Prop. 8


What do you think of the petition? Do you have any idea of what our chances of winning are with it?
 
What do you think of the petition? Do you have any idea of what our chances of winning are with it?

Oh, those are some top dog lawyers who graduated from the top of their class at an ivy league school and who have been trying cases for years! They're out of my league--now way could I criticize them. Believe me, they've got a strategy going, a reason for making the arguments that they made. I'd like for everyone to read the petition and to check out some of those laws that were used to back up the arguments. Each of you can find a lot of your own ideas in it.

I can't predict your chances of winning either. I didn't think Prop 8 would pass. Sorry, I know you're looking for an answer but no one will have that for you.

I will say that you have a liberal Crt and that can't hurt.

Metta, do you have a clue as to how much longer it will take before the ballots are all counted?
 
Metta, do you have a clue as to how much longer it will take before the ballots are all counted?

I'm sorry to say that I have no idea. Because there is almost no chance that it could be enough to make it fail, I'm not so sure that it is a priority right now. Counting all of them may also make the percentages worse. I don't know what districts they would be coming from.

The focus that I have been hearing is that more and more rally's are planned all over the State, especially on Saturday.
 
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