Chick-fil-a Can Bite Me

[chrisrobin]

Except here's the problem: if that restaurant has met all of the zoning requirements and has been approved by all of the necessary departments, but is then held up by an aldermen (as in Chicago), then it is clear the only reason for the denial is because of their views. That is not okay. There's a difference between a boycott and violating rights.

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Then so is the aldermen, and the Mayor of Boston.

Their stance is admirable, but it is not supported by the law.

What we have here is "the letter of the law" vs. "the spirit of the law." There is a clause in the U.S. Constitution which expresses "equal protection under the law." How the concept of discrimination is interpreted will determine what happens with the CFA issue.

CASE IN POINT:
There is a nationwide program called "Adopt a Highway." An organization becomes responsible for keeping a designated stretch of road litter-free. A local chapter of the KKK volunteered to participate in "Adopt a Highway." When it was discovered that they became part of the program, the were politely asked to leave. Was the KKK in violation of any laws? Probably not. Their presence just seemed inappropriate, though. So is CFA.

 

[Sammie13]

Can someone explain for me ......

Chick-Fil-A's position on gays?

I know they are against gay marriage?
I read they gave money to anti gay hate groups - what kind of groups?

The owner may be anti gay but the workers ............ what about them? I would hate to think that innocent workers - who have families etc. could lose their jobs because the owner is a bigot

feels sorta Penn St. - esque potential

as in the current players and students could get hurt (are getting hurt) due to the actions of a few

Cfa does not take a stance on gays, but their donations go to groups like Focus on the Family that fund anti-gay marriage. They support state and national traditional marriage organizations. They do tons of other civic-minded charities, too. Not far from where I live, they own a huge farm ranch that helps special need children. They build houses for Habitat for Humanity. It is the founders who do this. Most restaurants are owned by independent franchisees; the employees make fast food wages and are just looking for a job like everyone else. They are caught in the crossfires. The independent franchiser does have to meet certain moral qualifications as in married and attend church plus community involvement. The employees are taught customer service per the Bible and its lessons on service. As fast food restaurants go, they are on the high end...nicer employees, faster service, cleaner stores.

 

[Rolyo85]

Yep, like I said, it makes me said that such an obviously good business is... well, evil. And I feel bad for any employees that might get hurt from boycotts, but not enough to forget what the reason for the boycotts is.

 

[opinterph]

Most restaurants are owned by independent franchisees

Unlike most franchise agreements, Chick-fil-A retains ownership of each restaurant. It’s franchisees are merely “restaurant operators.”

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Cfa does not take a stance on gays, but their donations go to groups like Focus on the Family that fund anti-gay marriage.

I don't know, I think I might have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Sammie. CFa is, to my knowledge, a privately held family company. They aren't Coca-Cola or Nike, who can separate the opinions of their executives from their corporate policy. Dan Cathy IS Chick Fil-a so when he goes on record at Hope Community church as saying:

It’s very clear in Romans chapter 1, if we look at society today, we see all the twisted up kind of stuff that’s going on. Washington trying to redefine the definition of marriage and all the other kinds of things that we go—if you go upstream from that, in Romans chapter 1, you will see that because we have not acknowledged God and because we have not thanked God, that we have been left victim to the foolishness of our own thoughts, and as result, we are suffering the consequences of a society and culture who has not acknowledged God or not thanked God—he’s left us to a deprived mind. It’s tragic and we live in a culture of that today.

(emphasis mine)

I'm hard pressed to separate what HE'S saying from their corporate identity. When the sole owner (it's not like CFa is going to fire him for anything he says or does, he owns the joint) goes beyond saying "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman" and uses words like twisted, tragic, foolish, and deprived, I kind of have to look at that as a corporate stance.

feels sorta Penn St. - esque potential

as in the current players and students could get hurt (are getting hurt) due to the actions of a few

An argument, my dear, for another time and another thread (surprise surprise but we are of OPPOSITE minds regarding the PSU punishment, STOP THE PRESSES!)

 

[Sammie13]

I don't know, I think I might have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Sammie. CFa is, to my knowledge, a privately held family company. They aren't Coca-Cola or Nike, who can separate the opinions of their executives from their corporate policy. Dan Cathy IS Chick Fil-a so when he goes on record at Hope Community church as saying:


(emphasis mine)

I'm hard pressed to separate what HE'S saying from their corporate identity. When the sole owner (it's not like CFa is going to fire him for anything he says or does, he owns the joint) goes beyond saying "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman" and uses words like twisted, tragic, foolish, and deprived, I kind of have to look at that as a corporate stance.
QUOTE]

Maybe we're splitting hairs, but I don't know that he's anti-gay, but clearly he is anti-gay marriage. And I agree that since it's a private firm, his opinion (and charitable contributions) should be taken as a corp policy. I don't know that these independent operators would agree, but that's part of having the logo on your sign.

 

[Sammie13]

Unlike most franchise agreements, Chick-fil-A retains ownership of each restaurant. It’s franchisees are merely “restaurant operators.”

They are very expensive to get, too. Operators pay big money to secure the agreement. I know one on the coast who went through the entire process and landed one. Also, once knew a lady who's husband traveled the country looking for Cfa property. They were highly selective...very thorough....their growth was controlled to the nth degree. I think the biggest mistake Cfa has made, because they always execute flawlessly, was going national utilzing old Southern values. In other words, they have a red state mentality engrained in them, which works great, until you move into blue states. Wal-mart struggled in this regard, too.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Today was NOM's "eat bigoted chicken" day, and . . .

Maggie Gallagher can take of that mission all by herself.

 

[TX-Beau]

Maybe we're splitting hairs, but I don't know that he's anti-gay...

Really, seriously? Is this some kind of typo?

ANYONE who thinks for whatever reason that your relationship (let alone goes on to imply it's depraved) is lesser than a straight one thinks you are lesser than a straight person.

There it is.

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Oh and on the Penn state thing SOMEBODY START A THREAD.

(I'm too lazy to go look it up right now)

 

[Rolyo85]

And it isn't even relevant whether he is anti-gay or not. He donates millions of dollars (MILLIONS) to people who are clearly, and proudly anti-gay.

 

[TX-Beau]

A clearer anti-gay statement than that cannot be made.

 

[Adrock-JD]

Which came first, the Chick-fil-a or the egg on its face?

CNN reporting this as "political beliefs" in a corporation. Since when did we start calling equal rights political beliefs? wtf

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Except here's the problem: if that restaurant has met all of the zoning requirements and has been approved by all of the necessary departments, but is then held up by an aldermen (as in Chicago), then it is clear the only reason for the denial is because of their views.

Yeah you make a valid point there. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[TX-Beau]

That's political grandstanding. I doubt very much it goes anywhere at all.

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We just don't recognize it because it's political grandstanding in our favor for like the first time - ever.

 

[Sammie13]

And it isn't even relevant whether he is anti-gay or not. He donates millions of dollars (MILLIONS) to people who are clearly, and proudly anti-gay.

I'm guilty of blending alot of things together here I suppose. First, specific, to CFA, his donations make him anti-gay marriage which certainly makes him hostile toward gays since, in the business sense, he's using our $ for his agenda. The quote posted by Hardy....well, I think some of his chosen words were ramblings on about morals and values in general being against the word of God and how Washington is rather depraved in its social agenda. I think he was meshing alot of morals/social issues into that quote.

Ultimately, this is a political issue, and treated by most as such; I think CNN is being consistent with that in their chosen words.

I think what is lost is that 'anti-gay' and 'anti gay-marriage' are 2 different things. Because it's so personal to us, it feels like one of the same. I know plenty of kind Christians who are gay-friendly in tons of ways and very much acknowledge and socialize with gay couples. But, because of the Bible, they are opposed to gay-marriage. They see this as 2 different, distinguishable things. We like to merge the two issues.

As for the Cfa owners, I am not 100% sure they're anti-gay, but 100% sure they're anti gay marriage. And, honestly, I suspect they're anti-gay, too...just not enough evidence yet.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

I know plenty of kind Christians who are gay-friendly in tons of ways and very much acknowledge and socialize with gay couples.

How KIND of them!

(Where do I send the tasteful thank-you note?)

 

[Rolyo85]

I think what is lost is that 'anti-gay' and 'anti gay-marriage' are 2 different things. Because it's so personal to us, it feels like one of the same. I know plenty of kind Christians who are gay-friendly in tons of ways and very much acknowledge and socialize with gay couples. But, because of the Bible, they are opposed to gay-marriage. They see this as 2 different, distinguishable things. We like to merge the two issues.

As for the Cfa owners, I am not 100% sure they're anti-gay, but 100% sure they're anti gay marriage. And, honestly, I suspect they're anti-gay, too...just not enough evidence yet.

Well, I disagree (see how I didn't say "you're wrong"? I think I've grown). They ARE the same thing. "You are fine, I'm ok with you as long as you don't try to overstep the boundaries of my tolerance" is anti-gay. "I am against you having the rights that I do" is anti-gay. There simply CAN'T be a distinction between the two, and if someone thinks they are super gay-friendly but against gay marriage, they are lying to themselves (at best) or you (most likely). They are just being hypocritical.

And someone had this amazing post a few months back, which went something like this: we are acting like we are guests who should be real nice and thankful to make the owners like us and accept us. We are not guests. We are roommates. We pay the same rent, have the same responsibilities. We shouldn't whine and wring our hands in hopes that they will pat us on the head. We should fight for what's our right, and honestly, we should be a little intolerant too.

I am not understanding of bigots. I don't respect their right to an opinion (I'm not gonna take it away from them either, though I likely would if I could), I don't respect their right to turn their kids into bigots either. I don't respect their choices to dedicate time, effort and HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars (can you imagine? In THIS economy?!) to the sole purpose of preventing me from being happy and have the same rights as them.

I don't respect monsters.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

And someone had this amazing post a few months back, which went something like this: we are acting like we are guests who should be real nice and thankful to make the owners like us and accept us. We are not guests. We are roommates. We pay the same rent, have the same responsibilities. We shouldn't whine and wring our hands in hopes that they will pat us on the head. We should fight for what's our right, and honestly, we should be a little intolerant too.

(cough cough) You're right, it WAS pretty amazing of me!

(but did I write it here or on facebook?)

 

[Rolyo85]

Haha, I was about 90% sure it was you, but couldn't be bothered to search for it And yeah, it was here.

 

[ibill1]

How KIND of them!

(Where do I send the tasteful thank-you note?)

I have black friends too. WTF is that suppose to mean? If your kind christians can't tell the difference between getting married in the eyes of their church and having the civil rights to get married in the eyes of the law then they are simply idiots. None of the same-sex marriage laws require any church to marry us. So, what does it matter to them? I'll tell you what, they are bigots, plain and simple, hiding behind religion. For the life of me, I can't imagine what gay couple would want to socialize with these people.