"Coming out" guide for gay conservatives?

[Stardreamer]

feeling some hate here for JQ

or maybe it's just "conservatives"

or perhaps "gay conservatives"

in any case

JQ is one of us - and his being conservative is not a bad thing - and to treat it as such is not good

wake up gay people

There is nothing that ties religious right views on homosexuality to rest of conservative philosophy that requires you to be both in order to be conservative. People tend to forget that. There is also folks who will return hate for hate. Since some conservatives hate all homosexuals, some homosexuals feel they have to hate all conservatives. There are conservative gays out there and there is no reason why conservatism cannot evolve to a more gay friendly view especially once the anti-conservative aspects of some of the religious right views are made clear. This is going to happen anyway since the public as a whole is moving towards acceptance of homosexuals and if the two parties represent anything at all its getting elected so they will eventually moderate their views on homosexuality.

 

[Stardreamer]

I might also point out, there are a LOT of closeted gay conservatives out there. If they all came out the Republicans would have little choice but to moderate their views on the subject. It is just not as simple a case of telling them to stop being conservative, to many their views are deeply held and long established in their community and family. A book like this that helps these folks come to terms with being gay and conservative and accepting themselves enough to come out to their community can only help to bring the conservatives community as a whole in the 'right' direction on homosexuality.

 

[sixthson]

I'd like to know how well the Republican-voting gays are doing with their love life.

Whenever someone makes a post like this, I tend to view their profile and post history. I am not familiar with you or your posts, but a quick scan of your posting shows you comment primarily on political topics and I found nothing where you posted about your personal life.
I can assume from your postings, that you are anything but a Republican. How about telling us your age and love life? Are you partnered or have a bf? Your post here says you want to know personal info on others, it seems only fair that you share the same. Right?
I worship at the altar of no particular political party, but I strongly believe in fiscal responsibility and and very pro-life. This brands me as a conservative. My love life is great. Thanks for asking.

 

[sixthson]

Well my response to that has always been that it's easy to be a single issue voter when that "single issue" happens to be your very existence.

You proved my point.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

You proved my point.

Good, please feel free to use that response next time someone gives you shit for what they consider to be your "single issue."

(You don't even have to credit me or tell them where you got it!!)

 

[Kulindahr]

Your arguments are straw man arguments. First you announce that Republicans hate gays. This is not true and is favorite gimmick of liberal propagandists even as they preach hatred of the rich and Christians and whites and all who do not agree with them. The Republicans disagree with the gay agenda, as do I, but few actually hate gays. You forget that several of Bush's first appointments were open gays. Most Christians do not hate gays. Even the ones who do not approve of gay sex do not hate gays. You have heard "love the sinner, hate the sin". A tiny few may hate gays, but you are deluding yourselves if you believe all Democrats like or love gays. Just because they pander to you doesn't mean they like you. And because Republicans don't pander to you doesn't mean they hate you.
But liberal propagandists create the straw many of Republican hatred, in order to lead gays around. "They hate you so you should hate the rich. They hate you so you should vote for socialism." And too many gays are duped by the propaganda. If gay Republicans felt hated, which they do not, they would not be Republicans.
Every time you claim that Republicans hate gays you are falling for liberal propaganda and spreading it around.

If they vote to establish "traditional marriage", thus forbidding gays to marry, they hate gays.
If they oppose ENDA, they hate gays.
If they oppose the Respect for Marriage Act, they hate gays.
If they want DADT restored, they hate gays.


This is a point that C S Lewis made, and many Christians who love his work also love to ignore: hate is not about feelings, it's about actions. When the Bible says God hated Esau, it doesn't mean He had negative feelings toward Esau, it meant He deprived him of blessings and privileges. And that's exactly what the religious right and the Republican party try to do to gays: deprive of us blessings and privileges, and of rights.

So it is Biblically correct to say that Republicans and 'evangelicals' hate gays.

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

There can be gay conservatives, but gay Republicans? That's like being a Asian Klansman.

Let's look at the "gay-accepting" GOPs:

Gingrich claims that gays threaten the sanctity of marriage, yet he dumped his dying wife for another woman...then left her for another woman.

Santorum compared homosexuals to dog-fuckers and child molesters.

Bachmann thinks she can pray the gay away.

Romney waffles more than a Belgian chef, so he'll be for gay rights one day, and against them the next day.

Perry and Cain blame gays as the leading causes of divorce, murder, and gingivitis.

Yes, the Republican party just LOVES gays...to go away.

 

[Kulindahr]

There can be gay conservatives, but gay Republicans? That's like being a Asian Klansman.

Let's look at the "gay-accepting" GOPs:

Gingrich claims that gays threaten the sanctity of marriage, yet he dumped his dying wife for another woman...then left her for another woman.

Santorum compared homosexuals to dog-fuckers and child molesters.

Bachmann thinks she can pray the gay away.

Romney waffles more than a Belgian chef, so he'll be for gay rights one day, and against them the next day.

Perry and Cain blame gays as the leading causes of divorce, murder, and gingivitis.

Yes, the Republican party just LOVES gays...to go away.

For these reasons, gay conservatives should form a foundation/whatever to work toward making the House of Representatives into a body with proportional representation within state delegations. Do that, and a Conservative Party -- real conservatives, not reactionaries -- would spring into existence overnight. My bet is that the GOP number would plunge by over a third over the space of two Congressional elections, and the Democrats' by a quarter, and that those numbers would continue to drop until neither present major party had any hope of dominating Congress on its own.

 

[Kulindahr]

My point exactly, or would be if I were trying to make it

Stardreamer - I think most people here are actually good at distinguishing conservatives from republicans. After all, there are precious few of you

Well, it's easy, after all.

If they have reasoning skills and post sources, they're conservatives. If they just repeat standard opinions, they're Republicans.

 

[Stardreamer]

so lets address a few of these:

1) The importance of visible gay conservatives in society

This is really important and a key factor in overcoming the anti-gay bias in the Right wing. Too much of our political debate is framed in an 'us vs them' framework. There is reason why studies shows that people who really get to know a friend or a family member who is gay their views on homosexuality change favorably. There are bigoted folks who no matter what you do are going to stick by their biases but most people are decent folk at heart. What most conservatives know of homosexuals is based on stereotypes, propaganda from homophobic sources, and badly reasoned religious views. Give them a chance to see homosexuals who share their views and counter the misinformation they have and they will begin to understand.

 

[Stardreamer]

2) How to "come out" to conservative parents & family, who may be devoutly religious

I never really came out to all my family, something easy to do when your bi and married. It was pretty much based on how well I felt they could accept it. This chapter I think would really need to based on input from both family advisers and religious councilors. Since I won't pretend to be either that the best I can say here.

 

[Inverted]

Well, to me, most of the issues considered "gay rights" -- are CONSERVATIVE issues.

1) Supporting same-sex marriage, and gay adoption, is a conservative value, not a liberal one. The concept of being in a monogamous, stable relationship and raising a family unit together is probably the most conservative, traditional value there is. It is a shame that many people that call themselves "conservative" don't support same-sex marriage (most likely because of their religious beliefs or their own prejudices) but same-sex marriage and gay adoption are not liberal values at their core.

2) "Repeal of Don't ask Don't tell" (allowing gays to serve openly in the military) is also a conservative value, not a liberal one. Conservatives are patriotic and support the military. Conservatives send their own sons to serve in the military; liberals most often do not -- liberals are more likely to protest the military, call them baby killers, etc (Code Pink & the liberal city of Berkeley, California, harassed, protested, and tried to force the US Marines to get rid of their recruitment center in Berkeley several years ago). The concept that gay men & women want the right to openly serve their country (& possibly die in its defense) is a testament to the perseverance of conservative values.

This has no logic.

a) Marriage, stability and family are universal values, not conservative values; you'll find people striving for family and monogamous relationships everywhere regardless of sexuality, ethnicity, religion, location, political views, social status, etc. Liberals are just more likely to have broader ideas on what marriage, stability and family can be and also accept that others can find stability and happiness in different ways. Conservatives, on the other hand, are more likely to have a more rigid view of all these things hence the need to protect the "sanctity" of marriage.

b) Patriotism is hardly a "conservative value." Blind and excessive patriotism, or rather jingoism, is just more common and more visible with conservatives and you're less likely to see a liberal waving a flag and thanking the troops for everything. Moreover, protesting against military actions doesn't prevent one from being patriotic and just because liberals in some random city that you read about were trying to get rid of a Marine recruitment center doesn't mean all are. This is Point A all over again. Conservatives have a more rigid view of what a patriot has to be. Sorry, but I'm not going to "send" my son or daughter to the military as some sort act of patriotism.

As for the original topic, you are what you are. There are plenty of gay conservatives. I don't know how socially conservative you are, but many people might just find it odd or hypocritical when they found out about your conservative views and then make exceptions when it comes to gays because you're gay yourself (and maybe race issues too as I think you're South Asian). Speaking of South Asians, this reminds me of this conservative Indian guy I met a while back. He was reading an article about Muslim minorities in some northern India talking about facing discrimination everyday and pointed out that that they could easily move across the border to Pakistan. Then he went to Australia to get a masters and starting complaining himself when he felt discrimination firsthand. Karma really is a bitch.

 

[Stardreamer]

[Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]

It is curious that you address my comment, in the same post with this

[Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]

They very 'us vs them' attitude I was thinking of. To observe that some individuals in a group return the hate they perceive from another group does not in any way 'equate' the two groups. It only notes that some individual hate exists on both sides. I speak also in general terms about 'SOME' individuals in each group, I not attempting to label any particular individuals, why are you assuming I am talking about you?

 

[rareboy]

I think that one of the main points I wanted to make in my detailed response to the OP above is precisely that liberal and conservative homos face almost all the same problems in coming out and fitting into the fabric of society.

It is just self-serving and ridiculous nonsense to think that just because you may have different political beliefs that it immediately puts you into a 'special needs' category of being a homo.

Politicizing this is just nonsense. It shouldn't be any different for a card carrying Romney voting homo to deal with being a homo or being out than the Obama lovin', pro choice, pro marriage, patriotic Democrats among us.

What the OP is trying to do is create the illusion that there is some sort of 'special' conditions and 'special' sensitivity required to be a conservative homo. There is not. It is just a lame attempt to bulletproof oneself...to come up with reasons or excuses as to why life is more difficult for a conservative in the world than for a liberal.

Same bullshit the conservative whining class pull in the media all the time.

Oh dear. Us poor persecuted conservatives.

That dog don't hunt.

 

[CowboyBob]

A coming out guide for gay conservatives? That's easy.

1) publicly denounce homosexuality.
2) enact legislation against gay rights
3) get caught with your pants down in public rest rooms or with rent boys
4) deny you're gay and blame everyone else but yourself for the shit you got yourself in
5) after you get ejected either work for gay rights or go into deep denial

The Conservative Coming Out Handbook in 5 Easy Steps.

 

[jackoroe]

The problem I have with all of this is this divisive view. People are all pretty much the same. Why all the separate standards? Black, white, straight, gay all of us share the same genetic material.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Black, white, straight, gay all of us share the same genetic material.

Yet we don't share the same rights.

 

[Benvolio]

Yet we don't share the same rights.

Actually, we do have the same rights. Gays and straights have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex. The is what the word "marry" means. What gays want is a new definition of the word, not the same right. Do straights have a right to sue for discrimination against straights in employment or housing. Not in most states. Some laws against sexual orientation discrimination, passed for benefit of gays may cover straights, but even without the laws, gays have the same right as straights.

 

[Rolyo85]

Rareboy nailed it. The reason why I haven't tried to answer the original post is twofold.

1. I refuse to accept that there's some special persecuted group within the gay community that needs special consideration. Giancarlo is perfectly correct - your political views are subject to change. So change them. Don't become liberal and/or Democrat, but admit that the Republican party not only doesn't serve your interests but works directly against it. Then stop supporting it until it purges itself of the talibangelucal reactionary attitude. You'll see then how quickly your conservative outlook ceases to be an issue for anyone.

I am also bemused by the word "conservative" that appears about every third word or so in the OP. Conservatives and Republicans are quick to proclaim how their sexuality doesn't define them, yet to read the way JQ talks about it, he is CONSERVATIVE first, second and last, and barely anything else. And if you're going to be defined to this extreme by your political views, why shouldn't I judge you on them as well? Show me you're more than a CONSERVATIVE and/or Republican mouthpiece, and I'll gladly talk to you on friendly terms.

2. Half the points in the OP are extremely offensive to liberal thinking people. For example 4) tells me that liberals can't be religious and/or supportive of other people's religion. Or that wouldn't be an exclusively conservative problem, no? Same with 5) which tells us that only conservatives are patriotic, and 10), which reveals that liberals aren't concerned with monogamy.

However, my personal favorite is 12), according to which gay liberals either have no issue with "shoving being gay down people's throats" or are actively trying to do it. You know what, Jay? I bloody WILL shove my sexuality down people's throats for as long as it takes them to digest it. But I do it by not censoring my speech, by refusing to give in to the pressure to remain silent when the breeders would speak in my place. By refusing to be intimidated, by calling people out on homophobic behavior they might not be even aware of. And if I were that type of guy, I'd wear fucking high heels, a pound of make up on my face and a fluffy purple wig, which is what you seem to imagine when you talk about shoving stuff in throats. Boo hoo - some guys act feminine. Filthy, filthy behavior. Is your outrage really because of how inappropriate you think they are, or due to intense jealousy of how much more freedom those boys have in their own bodies and life in general?

 

[kallipolis]

Actually, we do have the same rights. Gays and straights have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex. The is what the word "marry" means. What gays want is a new definition of the word, not the same right. Do straights have a right to sue for discrimination against straights in employment or housing. Not in most states. Some laws against sexual orientation discrimination, passed for benefit of gays may cover straights, but even without the laws, gays have the same right as straights.

Gays expect to be able to marry another gay and enjoy the same rights, under the laws of the land enjoyed by opposite gender couples who marry.

Do not confuse marriage as defined under state law, and matrimony as defined by ecclesiastical law.

A woman's right to vote was won after a long, and gruelling campaign to obtain equal voting rights with men.

I see no reason why civil laws cannot be changed to accommodate same gender couples who wish to marry one another.

Where is the big problem when appreciating that many advanced countries permit marriage between same gender couples, without compromising the marriage rights of opposite gender couples, nor did their respective civilisations collapse under the weight of gay couples marrying.