Creationism banned from "free schools" in Britain

[metta]

“When my husband died, because he was so famous & known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me — it still sometimes happens — & ask me if Carl changed at the end & converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage & never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don’t ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief & precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive & we were together was miraculous — not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance… That pure chance could be so generous & so kind… That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space & the immensity of time… That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me & it’s much more meaningful…

The way he treated me & the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other & our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don’t think I’ll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.“

- Ann Druyan, talking about her husband, Carl Sagan

http://theageofreason.org/post/5296516329/when-my-husband-died-because-he-was-so-famous

 

[juicyjack]

Regardless of what people think about religion, I don't see why people have to hate Christians and rjmrjm21 and do this name-calling bullshit. It is not debating about a subject anymore. You all are resorting to calling someone a psycho and ignorant just for your own satisfaction. Is it really that important that you all have to make someone feel bad? This is a LGBT forum and I would have hoped that there would be less judgement coming from you all. You all are the same people who preach about equality and anti-bullying but what the fuck do you call this? You all are ganging up on one person for not fitting in to your views. You all are no better than the wack jobs that want to punish all gay people. What a bunch of hypocritical people you all are!

 

[fetaby]

Regardless of what people think about religion, I don't see why people have to hate Christians and rjmrjm21 and do this name-calling bullshit. It is not debating about a subject anymore. You all are resorting to calling someone a psycho and ignorant just for your own satisfaction. Is it really that important that you all have to make someone feel bad? This is a LGBT forum and I would have hoped that there would be less judgement coming from you all. You all are the same people who preach about equality and anti-bullying but what the fuck do you call this? You all are ganging up on one person for not fitting in to your views. You all are no better than the wack jobs that want to punish all gay people. What a bunch of hypocritical people you all are!

If you compromise with idiocy, all you end up with is half stupid.

I can't speak for everyone here, just myself.

Is it really that important that you all have to make someone feel bad?

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the flames of damnation that I've been sentenced to for being...

It's become so commonplace that cursing a person to HELL is not even considered offensive anymore. Non-believers, go to hell... Gay folks, go to hell...

How in the fuck do you propose to debate anyone when a judgement has already been issued out? There is no arguing...

And then to pose as being a victim? That's rich...

Regardless of what people think about religion, I don't see why people have to hate Christians and rjmrjm21 and do this name-calling bullshit.

And six words into your post you've given all religions a pass....


When the bulk of your religion is nothing more than name-calling itself, you don't get to act defensive when you get name called back... Eye for an eye, cheek for a cheek, no?

 

[vforvendetta]

Regardless of what people think about religion, I don't see why people have to hate Christians and rjmrjm21 and do this name-calling bullshit. It is not debating about a subject anymore. You all are resorting to calling someone a psycho and ignorant just for your own satisfaction. Is it really that important that you all have to make someone feel bad? This is a LGBT forum and I would have hoped that there would be less judgement coming from you all. You all are the same people who preach about equality and anti-bullying but what the fuck do you call this? You all are ganging up on one person for not fitting in to your views. You all are no better than the wack jobs that want to punish all gay people. What a bunch of hypocritical people you all are!

I think the discussion would have been much more civil had rjmrjm not misrepresented the positions of his opposition, told the same opposition that they're damned for hell for all eternity, and in general made a fool of himself. I have no sympathy - his delusional, hateful rants are worthy of the worst kind of scorn and repudiation.

We're not after the type of Christians who believe in love and minding their own business - but this guy is obviously not in that category. I think he almost feels like he's an exception to the rule in his own screwed up fundamentalist ideology, that somehow God will save him personally for "sticking it" to the other "sodomites". What a joke.

Next time, do us all a favor:

 

[juicyjack]

If you compromise with idiocy, all you end up with is half stupid.

I can't speak for everyone here, just myself.


I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the flames of damnation that I've been sentenced to for being...


It's become so commonplace that cursing a person to HELL is not even considered offensive anymore. Non-believers, go to hell... Gay folks, go to hell...

How in the fuck do you propose to debate anyone when a judgement has already been issued out? There is no arguing...

And then to pose as being a victim? That's rich...


And six words into your post you've given all religions a pass....


When the bulk of your religion is nothing more than name-calling itself, you don't get to act defensive when you get name called back... Eye for an eye, cheek for a cheek, no?

You don't know what my religion, and you are too busy seeing red, you missed the point of my post. Most religions do not teach judgement, rather than give rules to live by. If there are people who claim to be religious but are judging, then they most likely are not following their own religion very closely. I don't tell people to go to hell and I didn't see that anywhere in here. What I saw was a personal attack on one person. Your rant did nothing more than show how narrow-minded you really are; you couldn't even read my post. I know you are going to laugh at this and say some comment that has nothing to do with what I actually posted about because you have no other rational explaination for why you treat other people the way you do. You go right ahead, but regardless of what religion you are, you are acting like an ass and it is pathetic you feel the need to make other people feel like shit because they don't agree with you. I wasn't judging you or anyone else for being atheist, I was judging you for being cruel to another person.

 

[star-warrior]

^^ amen to that

This is the crux of it, if you'll pardon the pun.

There is indeed more damnation doled out by the anti-religionists than by the devout on these forums.

Ironic in a way, since these forums are on a gay porn site.... Let's put it this way, its been a long time since we had a penis size thread or a cut v.s. uncut one.

 

[star-warrior]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk[/ame]

 

[fetaby]

You don't know what my religion, and you are too busy seeing red, you missed the point of my post. Most religions do not teach judgement, rather than give rules to live by. If there are people who claim to be religious but are judging, then they most likely are not following their own religion very closely. I don't tell people to go to hell and I didn't see that anywhere in here. What I saw was a personal attack on one person. Your rant did nothing more than show how narrow-minded you really are; you couldn't even read my post. I know you are going to laugh at this and say some comment that has nothing to do with what I actually posted about because you have no other rational explaination for why you treat other people the way you do. You go right ahead, but regardless of what religion you are, you are acting like an ass and it is pathetic you feel the need to make other people feel like shit because they don't agree with you. I wasn't judging you or anyone else for being atheist,I was judging you for being cruel to another person.

Actually I'm seeing a lot of green...

If you had bothered to read MY post instead of assuming I was assuming, you'd know that the perspective offered up from rjmrjm21 is the person I was talking about. He was the one damning everyone here to hell.

And by defending his position you have become complicit in his opinion.

I was judging you for being cruel to another person.

When something like rjmrjm21 comes in here and curses everyone to hell, he stops being a person and assumes the mantle of God. As only God can judge whether or not a person is going to hell or not.

That is, if you believe in that sort of thing....

 

[looseliam]

 

[juicyjack]

Actually I'm seeing a lot of green...

If you had bothered to read MY post instead of assuming I was assuming, you'd know that the perspective offered up from rjmrjm21 is the person I was talking about. He was the one damning everyone here to hell.

And by defending his position you have become complicit in his opinion.



When something like rjmrjm21 comes in here and curses everyone to hell, he stops being a person and assumes the mantle of God. As only God can judge whether or not a person is going to hell or not.

That is, if you believe in that sort of thing....

I read your post as well as others and I didn't need to assume anything. I never personally saw him damning people to hell. If he did, it was clearly after some cruelty. The posts started right out of the gate about how stupid Christians are and how tragic it is for rjmrim21 to be so ignorant.

And yet again, you couldn't even bother to read what I had to say. I was defending a person who was flat-out getting bullied. I wasn't saying anything about his opinion being right or wrong. How does defending someone's right to being a human being end up with agreeing with that person? That's like saying everyone who has defended a gay person must be gay themselves.

And yet again, you are the one bringing God into this, not me. Obviously you have some unresolved issues with that one...

 

[vforvendetta]

I read your post as well as others and I didn't need to assume anything. I never personally saw him damning people to hell. If he did, it was clearly after some cruelty. The posts started right out of the gate about how stupid Christians are and how tragic it is for rjmrim21 to be so ignorant.

And yet again, you couldn't even bother to read what I had to say. I was defending a person who was flat-out getting bullied. I wasn't saying anything about his opinion being right or wrong. How does defending someone's right to being a human being end up with agreeing with that person? That's like saying everyone who has defended a gay person must be gay themselves.

And yet again, you are the one bringing God into this, not me. Obviously you have some unresolved issues with that one...

A lot of the content was deleted by moderators apparently - this thread had three pages earlier, and I distinctly recall several exchanges between rjmrjm and EwanSF, in which rjmrjm told EwanSF that he'd burn in hell for his 'ways'. It included some cheesy pictures of 'demonic possession' and lakes of fire, with a heaping load of personal attacks (in addition to some surprisingly homophobic references...talk about self-loathing!). I wasn't aware of that editing earlier otherwise I would have pointed it out at that point, but you're really not seeing the whole picture of what happened in this thread. Not at all.

 

[juicyjack]

A lot of the content was deleted by moderators apparently - this thread had three pages earlier, and I distinctly recall several exchanges between rjmrjm and EwanSF, in which rjmrjm told EwanSF that he'd burn in hell for his 'ways'. It included some cheesy pictures of 'demonic possession' and lakes of fire, with a heaping load of personal attacks (in addition to some surprisingly homophobic references...talk about self-loathing!). I wasn't aware of that editing earlier otherwise I would have pointed it out at that point, but you're really not seeing the whole picture of what happened in this thread. Not at all.

Fair enough I guess. However people are also acting like all Christians are idiots and crazy and that in itself is still bullying and hypocritical. It is also interesting that "burn in hell" stuff isn't allowed on here, but all the retaliation and religious hatred still is. I guess we know where the moderators stand on this topic. So much for freedom of speech.

 

[vforvendetta]

Fair enough I guess. However people are also acting like all Christians are idiots and crazy and that in itself is still bullying and hypocritical. It is also interesting that "burn in hell" stuff isn't allowed on here, but all the retaliation and religious hatred still is. I guess we know where the moderators stand on this topic. So much for freedom of speech.

Uh, EwanSF's posts were also removed - the mods aren't being unfair. I have to actually say, this board has a far more liberal policy on freedom of speech than most of the other ones I've been on.

 

[juicyjack]

Uh, EwanSF's posts were also removed - the mods aren't being unfair. I have to actually say, this board has a far more liberal policy on freedom of speech than most of the other ones I've been on.

I wasn't talking about EwanSF posts specifically. I'm talking in general. Basically every post is pure bashing and very little debate.

 

[fetaby]

I read your post as well as others and I didn't need to assume anything. I never personally saw him damning people to hell. If he did, it was clearly after some cruelty. The posts started right out of the gate about how stupid Christians are and how tragic it is for rjmrim21 to be so ignorant.

And yet again, you couldn't even bother to read what I had to say. I was defending a person who was flat-out getting bullied. I wasn't saying anything about his opinion being right or wrong. How does defending someone's right to being a human being end up with agreeing with that person? That's like saying everyone who has defended a gay person must be gay themselves.

And yet again, you are the one bringing God into this, not me. Obviously you have some unresolved issues with that one...

Post #25....

What you can't know is that at least half a dozen posts were deleted from this thread or sanitized. rjmrjm21 came swinging out the gate. But since you didn't personally see it, it didn't happen huh?

And yet again, you couldn't even bother to read what I had to say.

Sure I did, I just happen to have a different opinion as to what your words are doing here.

This is a LGBT forum and I would have hoped that there would be less judgement coming from you all. You all are the same people who preach about equality and anti-bullying but what the fuck do you call this? You all are ganging up on one person for not fitting in to your views. You all are no better than the wack jobs that want to punish all gay people. What a bunch of hypocritical people you all are!

I can only laugh at some one preaching to me from a high horse. But here's the thing. As I'm not a christian, I am not bound to the "rules" of christianity. I can be judgmental. I can be cruel. When I do so, I'm not being a hypocrite because I never signed up to the mickey mouse club of moralistic behavior to earn a ticket to see Jeebus.

Basically every post is pure bashing and very little debate.

Again, how can there be a debate when a judgement is already made?

 

[fetaby]

Fair enough I guess. However people are also acting like all Christians are idiots and crazy and that in itself is still bullying and hypocritical. It is also interesting that "burn in hell" stuff isn't allowed on here, but all the retaliation and religious hatred still is. I guess we know where the moderators stand on this topic. So much for freedom of speech.

That "burn in hell" stuff is a direct wish of injury to another person. Not indifferent from telling someone to kill themselves.

And all that retaliation and religious hatred is directed at the institutions of religion and not an individual person.

If an individual person chooses to take offense on behalf of a religion, that is their choice.

If you wish to debate religious and philosophical ideology there is a flame free sub forum here with tons of debate on all kinds of issues.

 

[juicyjack]

Post #25....

What you can't know is that at least half a dozen posts were deleted from this thread or sanitized. rjmrjm21 came swinging out the gate. But since you didn't personally see it, it didn't happen huh?



Sure I did, I just happen to have a different opinion as to what your words are doing here.


I can only laugh at some one preaching to me from a high horse. But here's the thing. As I'm not a christian, I am not bound to the "rules" of christianity. I can be judgmental. I can be cruel. When I do so, I'm not being a hypocrite because I never signed up to the mickey mouse club of moralistic behavior to earn a ticket to see Jeebus.



Again, how can there be a debate when a judgement is already made?

I didn't see how I was expected to know about things that were already deleted. I can only see how you have treated me and I can draw a lot from that.

I said nothing about you needing to agree with me. I said you shouldn't be rude to people who have a different opinion than you. So basically what you are doing is copying what I say and then saying it back to me. I can only assume you are only doing that because you truly don't have a leg to stand on.

I was not talking about any rule of Christianity, nor was I saying you should follow any rule of Christianity. I was saying you should at least show some sign of respect and if you don't than you are a hypocrite for expecting people to accept you for being gay, while you don't accept anyone who is Christian. You can be judgemental and cruel, but you are also a hypocrite in doing so. Yes you can be an atheist and be a hypocrite. It's not a get out of jail free card. Anyone is allowed to be a prick, but it doesn't mean that you can expect for people to be okay with it.

And whose judgement are you referring to? Mine or yours?

 

[juicyjack]

That "burn in hell" stuff is a direct wish of injury to another person. Not indifferent from telling someone to kill themselves.

And all that retaliation and religious hatred is directed at the institutions of religion and not an individual person.

If an individual person chooses to take offense on behalf of a religion, that is their choice.

If you wish to debate religious and philosophical ideology there is a flame free sub forum here with tons of debate on all kinds of issues.

The phrase "go to hell" is actually more like saying fuck you than it is a threat. I don't agree with using it, but I also don't see why it would even matter to someone who doesn't believe there even is a hell anyway.

I don't get on here for religious talk. This would be the last place I would want to do so. That's why I have specifically still not said how I feel about religion or associated myself with any group. I was just trying to defend someone. I don't expect you to relate.

 

[fetaby]

I can only see how you have treated me and I can draw a lot from that.

I haven't treated you anyway. Your opinions? Yes, I've been harsh. Do you not have potential for change? Are you set in stone?

Anyone is allowed to be a prick, but it doesn't mean that you can expect for people to be okay with it.

So rjmrjm can be a prick but everyone here has to be okay with that... got it.

And whose judgement are you referring to? Mine or yours?

Mine, yours, his and theirs...

Personally I believe that we are fast approaching a crossroad between knowledge (read science) and belief ( read religion). Regardless of how we arrive to the crossroad the only way forward will be through knowledge.

Do you really believe Jesus rode a dinosaur?

 

[fetaby]

I don't expect you to relate.

And more judgement...

The phrase "go to hell" is actually more like saying fuck you than it is a threat. I don't agree with using it, but I also don't see why it would even matter to someone who doesn't believe there even is a hell anyway.

And that's your opinion, well enough. But you don't get to decide how another person views it, even if you think they don't believe.