Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

[luckynumbah7]

That wasn't the question I was answering, but I really don't think there is a net gender advantage for men. We die younger. Get back to me when men outlive women by several years. I gain nothing by being mistaken for being heterosexual.

Then drop the excess testosterone and go on estrogen if you want to live seven years longer. If you think you gain nothing by being mistaken for straight then I suppose homophobia doesn't exist, either? No, wait, straight people ask if you're gay first and then they listen attentively to the answer before deciding that they're going to hire you, not throw away your housing application, harass you and/or beat the shit out've you. Or all those other things that people perceived as gay get. That must be it, mmhm.

 

[The Fly]

This bitch can cram her article up her ass.

Don't be shy, tell us how you really feel......................

 

[luckynumbah7]

Don't be shy, tell us how you really feel......................

I concur! It's always nice knowing who I need to avoid, in a manner o'speaking.

 

[bankside]

Then drop the excess testosterone and go on estrogen if you want to live seven years longer. If you think you gain nothing by being mistaken for straight then I suppose homophobia doesn't exist, either? No, wait, straight people ask if you're gay first and then they listen attentively to the answer before deciding that they're going to hire you, not throw away your housing application, harass you and/or beat the shit out've you. Or all those other things that people perceived as gay get. That must be it, mmhm.

That's about as sensible as telling women that men have privilege but women should just cut off their breasts to get the same privilege.
The argument you're making doesn't even have internal coherence.

And being mistaken for being straight is an example of homophobia, not an exemption from it.

 

[Gentleheart]

I think the article was VERY well written (perhaps my standards are low), and spot on in many areas (primarily the parts concerning privilege, etc).


Something I don't think she mentioned is the fact that some of these white gay guys may find black women's demeanor and attitudes empowering in some way. Taking on their mannerisms, affectations, and such can make them feel more confident in dealing with the bullshit that life can sometimes throw our way as gay men. I may have misjudged them, but that is the vibe I get from some of the white guys I've known over the years who act that way. It's almost a defense mechanism to a degree. I think it goes a lot deeper than just "they think it's fun/silly to act like black women".

 

[xbuzzerx]

That's about as sensible as telling women that men have privilege but women should just cut off their breasts to get the same privilege.
The argument you're making doesn't even have internal coherence.

And being mistaken for being straight is an example of homophobia, not an exemption from it.

It most certainly is an exemption from it in cases where one is dealing socially or professionally with bigoted individuals who can and will treat you differently, with distance, or with aversion if they actually know that you are gay.

And there's no advantage to being male? Have you somehow missed the past half century+ (since women started seriously entering all job fields and not just traditionally female ones) with a documented and demonstrable pay gap between men and women in the same industries and job positions?

I'm kinda acclimated to your seemingly willful blindness to the reality of inequality or privilege but this one is a bit astonishing. It's up there with claiming there's no inherent disadvantage to being a gay person in our contemporary world cultures.

 

[luckynumbah7]

It most certainly is an exemption from it in cases where one is dealing socially or professionally with bigoted individuals who can and will treat you differently, with distance, or with aversion if they actually know that you are gay.

And there's no advantage to being male? Have you somehow missed the past half century+ (since women started seriously entering all job fields and not just traditionally female ones) with a documented and demonstrable pay gap between men and women in the same industries and job positions?

I'm kinda acclimated to your seemingly willful blindness to the reality of inequality or privilege but this one is a bit astonishing. It's up there with claiming there's no inherent disadvantage to being a gay person in our contemporary world cultures.

Eh, I've seen him claiming that kinda thing before. Not a particularly original potshot, either, considering I've yet to have top surgery, let alone for those reasons.

 

[luckynumbah7]

It most certainly is an exemption from it in cases where one is dealing socially or professionally with bigoted individuals who can and will treat you differently, with distance, or with aversion if they actually know that you are gay.

And there's no advantage to being male? Have you somehow missed the past half century+ (since women started seriously entering all job fields and not just traditionally female ones) with a documented and demonstrable pay gap between men and women in the same industries and job positions?

I'm kinda acclimated to your seemingly willful blindness to the reality of inequality or privilege but this one is a bit astonishing. It's up there with claiming there's no inherent disadvantage to being a gay person in our contemporary world cultures.

Eh, I've seen him claiming that kinda thing before. Not a particularly original potshot, either, considering I've yet to have top surgery, let alone for those reasons. If I'm gonna be insulted he needs to try harder.

 

[luckynumbah7]

And before I go to sleep, because it just occured to me, my 'change your hormone levels' was not, in point of fact, a potshot. I've looked through the statistics amd while the amount of years women live longer can vary (particularly in a less industrialized society) they all seem to live longer regardless. Considering the extreme variation in diet, culture and medical technology available to the human race, the only commonality is hormone levels.

So if you'd like, Bankside, move to Angola where both women and men die in their early fifties. Well, women die at 52 while men die at 50, using averages. And I bet I know what Bankside is thinking, too. Lemmie shorten your thought and save you the time, after all - what're nodding acquaintances for?

"Those bitches get an extra two years, the World Hates Men!"

There, now that the Homophobia/Misogyny Doesn't Exist segue is over with we can go back to the topic. I wouldn't mind seeing a discussion of the racism and sexism in (some of) drag culture. Which, imo, is often an extension of everyday racism.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

There, now that the Homophobia/Misogyny Doesn't Exist segue is over with we can go back to the topic. I wouldn't mind seeing a discussion of the racism and sexism in (some of) drag culture. Which, imo, is often an extension of everyday racism.

Yeah I think this is a really big problem and kinda what always pushes me towards the queer scene whether I live; where they normally challenge racism a lot more readily.

I think a lot of gay groups think they can get away with this shit because back in the day a lot of the safe spaces around were mixed with PoC and LGBT people - thus making a lot of white men think they can take on the mannerism around them for their own, imagining it all to be part of a wider struggle - and not seeing it for the standard racism it is.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

^ Foucault wrote that forty years ago. Is it happening? When is The Matriarchy happening?

Well Foucault work still stands - women, PoC, and LGBT people still face discrimination on a daily basis.

The matriarchy will never happen, despite what fedora wearing mens rights guys will tell you feminists don't want to threaten you with violence, tell your where your place in life should be, pay you less and all that other shit that is done to women. It is lessening sure, women have it the best they ever have - but do they really have full equality yet? Let alone the matriarchy!

 

[suckpoppet]

Something I don't think she mentioned is the fact that some of these white gay guys may find black women's demeanor and attitudes empowering in some way. Taking on their mannerisms, affectations, and such can make them feel more confident in dealing with the bullshit that life can sometimes throw our way as gay men. I may have misjudged them, but that is the vibe I get from some of the white guys I've known over the years who act that way. It's almost a defense mechanism to a degree. I think it goes a lot deeper than just "they think it's fun/silly to act like black women".

That's an interesting observation.
I think you're right because strong female "role models" have always been popular amongst gay men.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

It most certainly is an exemption from it in cases where one is dealing socially or professionally with bigoted individuals who can and will treat you differently, with distance, or with aversion if they actually know that you are gay.

But the fault here is not of the person who is assumed to be hiding, it is a society that assumes one is straight without thinking twice. Anyone on here should know that being in the closet is a dark depressing place, not a perk. There are plenty of people that are very openly gay.

I don't like the notion this is something gay people use generally as a safe guard, because it is something more-so used by people who still have issues with their sexuality.

 

[xbuzzerx]

But the fault here is not of the person who is assumed to be hiding, it is a society that assumes one is straight without thinking twice.

I agree but that would not change the fact that someone in the position to be consistently assumed to be heterosexual enjoys a passive benefit over someone who might be the immediate and unavoidable target of anti-gay sentiment or prejudice or action in a social sphere because his homosexuality is not in any way ambiguous. The same situation would exist for someone of black ancestry who was of such light complexion and feature that he or she was routinely thought of as white by most people who ran into them. That person would spend a lifetime mostly avoiding (even without conscious effort) a majority of the ordinary and daily negative social reactions people of prejudiced mindsets may have in a given context-- whether that's racial profiling, driving while black, crossing the street to avoid you or whatever else (maybe shooting you as you walk home from 7-11 with your scary iced tea and skittles). But it would be rather astonishing for that person to actually claim that because they have mostly avoided anti-black stigma, that it actually doesn't really exist or that there's no social benefit to appearing to not be black.

The point of dispute wasn't over assigning blame for who is responsible for consequences of prejudice (which you are correct about), but rather over whether or not individuals who are visually non-linkable to a stigmatized group experience the benefit of avoiding much of the downside of that stigma even if they refuse to acknowledge that those stigmas are real and exist. Bankside's apparent refusal to acknowledge that anyone in society experiences any inherent benefit or stigma based on broader social attitudes towards their race/gender/sexual identity/etc., on top of being ridiculous in the face of actual measurable evidence that one could believe that to be true, also just strains common sense to the point of appearing to be willful blindness.

 

[Gentleheart]

the author is interviewed by CNN's Don Lemon.

 

[Rubber Rat]

Maybe if "Black Female Culture" asks nicely, "we'll" give it back.

But seriously, her article is more racist than anyone who could be appropriating the meme. There IS no "Black Female Culture" that is monolithic. Plenty of proud Black women I have known would not embrace the caricature.

Agreed. Thank you. The African American women I know roll their eyes at this "sassy Black woman" stereotype.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Something I don't think she mentioned is the fact that some of these white gay guys may find black women's demeanor and attitudes empowering in some way. Taking on their mannerisms, affectations, and such can make them feel more confident in dealing with the bullshit that life can sometimes throw our way as gay men. I may have misjudged them, but that is the vibe I get from some of the white guys I've known over the years who act that way. It's almost a defense mechanism to a degree. I think it goes a lot deeper than just "they think it's fun/silly to act like black women".

Could it be that white women on tv and in pop culture are deeply boring, whereas the Sassy Black Friend stereotype as well as Tyra Banks and all the Real Housewives come off as really entertaining and/or glamorous?

And surely guys who refer to themselves as "gurl" are going to opt for a glamorous or entertaining persona to draw from, rather than a boring one. It's like DragQueen 101.

I see Deja has beaten me to this observation.
-d-

 

[suckpoppet]

*ponders about the definition of "glamorous"*

 

[blackbeltninja]

^ best I could come up with which fitted what I meant.

-d-

 

[Gentleheart]

Could it be that white women on tv and in pop culture are deeply boring, whereas the Sassy Black Friend stereotype as well as Tyra Banks and all the Real Housewives come off as really entertaining and/or glamorous?

Yes, that could be. But I don't think that's all there is to it.

Also, I (as a black man) don't think that white women on TV are boring at all. I find them just as interesting as their black, Asian, etc. counterparts. Obviously, not everyone is going to see this issue the same way, but I'm telling you what I know based on my experiences. For some white gays, it IS a defense mechanism, of sorts. That "sassiness" and "not about the bullshit" demeanor they see in black women is what they adopt to combat the bs that comes with being gay in its tracks.

People of all races can be entertaining...whether it's intentional or not.

And surely guys who refer to themselves as "gurl" are going to opt for a glamorous or entertaining persona to draw from, rather than a boring one. It's like DragQueen 101.

No argument from me there, but as I said...like many topics, there are many layers to this one.

*ponders about the definition of "glamorous"*

it's clearly subjective.