Dharun Ravi Indicted in Tyler Clementi Suicide

[Rolyo85]

Yep.

No other subject. One other topic - same issue - Tyler Clementi's suicide and Dharun Ravi's guilt. Prove otherwise or stfu.

Time for a lock I think.

 

[opinterph]

Time for a lock I think.

Time for you guys to take it to PM.

 

[Kulindahr]

Where is my zealot mentality? You keep claiming that but you haven't proved it. And you didn't say his sentence was inadequate. I think several years would have been more suitable considering the crimes he was convicted of doing. You are the one who seems more of a candidate for the republican party... considering you blame the real victim here (being Tyler).

This is a sufficient answer to that:

It is though. You've been consistently misrepresenting my position (for example claiming I'm on Ravi's side when I've said multiple times that's the opposite of what's true, and given ample examples why), and flat out lying about it (when you claimed I blamed Tyler, which I have never done).

What do you say to that?

No it's not. It's just another case of you misrepresenting my viewpoints. And aren't you politically closer to Rush Limbaugh anywayS?

Read your words above, and Rolyo's comment. You'll see I didn't "misrepresent" a thing. You distorted what he said, which is misrepresenting, and then you just plain lied about what he's said.


Me closer to Rush Limbaugh...

I like science; he mangles it. I like accurate citations taken in context; he cuts and pastes. I only engage in name-calling when seriously provoked; he does it as normal practice. He loves the wealthy and supports a plutocracy...

An illustration: stand on the south pole. Take ten paces north and spit into the wind. The ratio between the distance it lands from the south pole and the distance to the north pole is indicative of how close I am to Rush.

 

[Kulindahr]

I want justice

I really don't care about Ravi's well being.

One of these has to be false. To care about justice is to care about its target's well-being. If you truly believe that you can hold both of those at the same time, the conclusion most favorable to you is that you don't understand justice.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh my god, prior vendetta THIS IS THE ONLY ISSUE WE'VE EVER ARGUED ABOUT!

I love how the vendetta didn't come up until I said "vengeance". My "misrepresentation" didn't come up until Kuli accused you of doing it. Everything you say comes from someone else. You have some opinion driven by random impulses, and you grasp at anything that could support or validate it. I have not "failed" to prove anything. You just don't want to admit it (I would be greatly surprised if you were even aware of it to be honest), and there is NOTHING I could say to "prove" it to you. This entire topic is not about me trying to prove anything to you, it's arguing publicly with your repetitive viciousness, so that the other users can see how biased they are. This is a spectator sport, it has nothing to do with you.

I gladly own my attitude towards you. We share many viewpoints, yet I feel more sympathetic to Chance who I disagree with 4 times out of 5. Which is HIGHLY irrelevant as far as Dharun Ravi is concerned, so don't try to make it personal. That's too low even for you.

"Vendetta" is what he cries when he's been owned and doesn't want to admit it.

 

[palbert]

This frolic and banter obscures the fact that he was sentenced within the law. Adjudication over. Matter closed. Move on to where your formidable intellect makes a difference.

(Disclosure: I think the sentence was proper and witthin the court's discretion. "Light" it was not.)

 

[Rolyo85]

One of these has to be false. To care about justice is to care about its target's well-being. If you truly believe that you can hold both of those at the same time, the conclusion most favorable to you is that you don't understand justice.

Haha, so true. But he gave a Benvolio answer, as expected.

If you don't care about the person, then you can't care about justice. It's as simple as that.

 

[Rolyo85]

Justice is impartial. Check the statue if you don't believe me. If you start seeking justice for only one side, you inevitably find INjustice for the other.

 

[Rolyo85]

So then you admit you're not looking for "justice", but for a sentence that fits YOUR idea of how serious the crime was?

 

[Kulindahr]

I understand justice just fine.

Then you've changed your mind, and now care about Ravi?

 

[Kulindahr]

(Disclosure: I think the sentence was proper and witthin the court's discretion. "Light" it was not.)

Whether it was light is debatable. My real problem with it is that it is not sufficiently instructive: it does not sufficiently serve to demonstrate to Ravi the kind of uncertainty and resulting stress he inflicted on Tyler. To do that -- well, somewhere above I gave my prescription.

 

[Kulindahr]

I am indeed looking for justice. I feel that 30 days was inadequate and falls short of what should have been handed down. The prosecutor does too (who I quoted earlier).

I can't find where you ever commented on my proposal:

It's nice to see the judge being merciful and having regard for Ravi's future.

OTOH, the sentence is ridiculously light. I'd leave it essentially as is, though, with a couple of changes:

1. two more 30-day periods in jail, at times of which Ravi would not be warned, the only limitation being that they wouldn't interfere with his ability to sit for exams.

2. up to four visits a year by INS agents to inspect his dwelling, plus the possibility of taking Ravi for questioning.

3. suspended fine of another $10,000, dependent on good behavior -- Ravi behaves himself for the three years of probation, it disappears.


My point would be to teach him something of the uncertainty and fear he inflicted.

Since reviewing the thread, I've decided to add to that: he should also have to do eight hours of community service per month for the duration of his probation; I'd require that they be done where he's both working with and helping the poor.

I'm tempted to require him to learn to play the violin, too.

 

[Rolyo85]

Oh COME ON! Now you're just being evil! And that wounds me personally ;_;

 

[palbert]

....I think we should agree to disagree on this matter and move on.

Echoing my sentiment in Post 323.

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't care much for it. I don't think 90 days in jail is enough. I'm more tempted to learn towards 3-5 years.

Then it would be over.

I want to hang jail over his shoulder, so he knows it's coming back, but doesn't know when, to make him feel insecure and even fearful in real life the way he did to Tyler, to make his entire life unsettled, as he did to Tyler, to weekly require him to be of service to others, thinking about what they need -- as he failed to do for Tyler. I want him to be surprised when he least expects it by intruders who come to pry into his life, as he did to Tyler, and to know every time they show up that he could be sent off to a country he doesn't know where life would be uncomfortable, the way he made Tyler's. I want this experience to TEACH, to rehabilitate, to leave him unable to continue to go through life able to see others as objects for his amusement.

Three to five wouldn't teach him anything at all except to be more careful when he abuses people in the future.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh COME ON! Now you're just being evil! And that wounds me personally ;_;

Heh.

Do you understand the point of the violin?

 

[Rolyo85]

Actually, shoplifting is much more tangible than recording what happens in your own room.

Also, nobody gets jailed for shoplifting. The three strikes thing is not for the crime, it's for repeating it.

 

[Rolyo85]

Oh ya really? So stealing a packet of gum or razors is worse then someone broadcasting ones intimate moments with another and then transmitting that over the internet without their permission?

Two right out lies there Good job, Rush.

 

[Rolyo85]

Dharun Ravi did not broadcast anything, nor did he upload anything on the internet. You just explicitly said that he did. You are the one manipulating by stating direct untruths. Or please tell me how this is somehow on me?

 

[Rolyo85]

I didn't manipulate anything. He recorded him without his knowledge. I'll correct myself. This is why he was prosecuted. You keep mixing up certain facts in this case. As I said, lets end this argument.

He did not record him either. Do you see what you did? You turned it from "he spied on him through his webcam for a second and then tweeted a comment about it" to "he recorded it, and then transmitted it on the internet". Do I SERIOUSLY need to explain why there is a universe of difference between the two? It's the same as Ellen saying he outed Tyler and then Tyler committed suicide because of that. Those are not small differences, not in any way irrelevant, and I will not let such a HUGE distortion of the facts remain unchallenged.


Pat, I know, right?

 

[jackoroe]

Let's put this thread to rest. If Ravi gets more time, we can start a new thread. Otherwise the case has been adjudicated. It's done.