Dharun Ravi Indicted in Tyler Clementi Suicide

[Kulindahr]

Is it possible that something happened between the writing of the email to the RA in the morning and the afternoon when he jumped? Something totally unrelated to Dharun Ravi and the spying? Something related maybe to his relationship with a closeted married man (I'm sorry if I'm mistaken - I know the guy was closeted. Not sure about the married part)?

Again, I'm not trying to cook up conspiracy theories here. But you must admit that facts don't exactly add up. It's the easiest route to lay it all on Ravi's shoulders, and I wouldn't argue that he has contributed, probably to the biggest extent. But I still say there is stuff missing from the picture that likely will never be known :/

That's a good point. If those in charge of the site hadn't lost the thread Tyler started, we might be able to look there for clues -- though I can't remember how long before the end he posted there. I do know we were all shocked.

And it's eerie that he visited all those bridges earlier.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes you have. You have done so by repeatedly downplaying what he has done and simply calling it a prank or whatever. I think there was far more insidious motives behind what he did. And by the time he realized what he did was wrong, it was too late.


His intent was to harm and humiliate his roommate. Simple as that. But the intent isn't important. The consequences are.


No. It seems to be convincing you of the opposite because you didn't thoroughly read the article or you read it very selectively cherry picking parts that best suits your weak argument.

He's not the only one it convinced.

The operative statement here is up there in color. You think it's so, but there's no evidence in any actual news articles to support your view, or at least not in the six I've read so far, including the New Yorker one.

 

[Kulindahr]

Then they will sink themselves in the eyes of public opinion.

What??? Indian-Americans talking is a disgrace or something? How can talking sink anyone in the eyes of public opinion?

what scapegoat? This isn't even about other cases of bullying. He will be punished according to the verdicts he was found guilty of in a court of law. If you have a problem with the trial, which was based on evidence and not mere feeling, then write to the Congressman or Governor of that state.

Even the juror who spoke with the press said scapegoating was a problem, that they had to focus on Ravi and what he did, not on any wider issues or things besides the charges. I'm not convinced they did a perfect job, but since they acquitted him on quite a few, they made a darned good effort to keep it about Ravi and not the wide issue of gay bullying.

Then we don't punish murderers? I'm not saying that Ravi is a murderer, but his actions need to be punished. 5-10 years is an optimal sentence for the crimes he committed.

How many people have you know who've been in prison?

 

[backpacker]

So, rereading the story, it's quite clear that Clementi didn't in ANY way indicate his intent to end his life. His parents say that even in retrospect they couldn't see signs of that. On the contrary - he took measures to change his room, had obviously armed himself with evidence (the snapshot of the tweets). He acted like he had finally decided to take action, not like someone about to jump off a bridge.

Is it possible that something happened between the writing of the email to the RA in the morning and the afternoon when he jumped? Something totally unrelated to Dharun Ravi and the spying? Something related maybe to his relationship with a closeted married man (I'm sorry if I'm mistaken - I know the guy was closeted. Not sure about the married part)?

:/

Since it happened, I have always said something happened after his last post. Now with the aid of the testimony and various articles, it's a little easier to piece together. We know that M.B. says nothing happened on his part and he wishes Tyler had talked to him about what was going on. We know he went to practice in the afternoon and that nobody noticed anything different about him. We know he went back to his room and Dharun was there. According to Dharun, Dharun left the room at some point and when he returned Tyler was gone. The next thing we know is Tyler traveling to the GW and jumping off. If any additional event happened, I think the most likely thing that happened between Dharun and Tyler. At that point Dharun knew that Tyler had reported him and requested a roommate change. Dharun says they didn't really talk and that is possible. It could have been silent tension so thick that you couldn't cut it with a knife. It could have also been that one of them confronted the other and things got nasty. It could also be possible that something else happened totally unrelated to Dharun. We will never know. If I had to bet, it would be on it being related to the time Dharun and Tyler spent together in the room that evening. Maybe is Dharun had offered the type of apology he put in the email later that night when they were together, Tyler would still be alive. Once again, we will never know.

I certainly don't think the issues with Dharun were the only issues that pushed Tyler over the edge. The first month away at college is often very difficult, especially for those who are less popular. Dharun indicated a number of times that he didn't think Tyler had any friends. Tyler appears to have been a guy who marched to a different drummer and that could have made it very lonely for him away at college. Every year there are Freshmen who take their own lives for that reason alone. Tyler's feeling that his mother didn't embrace him being gay probably played a roll as well.

What I don't understand is why he didn't turn to his older brother, who is gay, for advice. It sounds like they had bonded in a new way over the summer when they both came out to each other. His dad had also been fully accepting of Tyler being gay, so he could have turned to him for support.

It's really senseless that he took his own life and I don't put the blame on anyone but Tyler. With that said Dharun committed a number of felonies and justice needs to be done for those.

 

[backpacker]

What does everyone think about this:

Boston College football player faces prison time for allegedly recording roommate's sex act

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/2...me-for-recording-roommates-sex/#ixzz1puRGPQ8R

This guy could get 2 1/2 years for making an audio recording and sharing it. Had this guy never heard of Tyler or Dharun? I would guess he doesn't get any jail time, but this will follow him for years.

PS - Don't give me a hard time about the Fox News link. I heard about the story on the local news and did a Google search and it's the first link that came up.

 

[Salemite]

You think it's so [that his actions were motivated by homophobia], but there's no evidence in any actual news articles to support your view.

Actually, that's not true. Have you read any of the text messages that Dharun sent to his friend(s) in the days prior to the webcam incident? There's plenty of evidence to suggest that what he did was motivated by homophobia. I'm not saying that's actually the case, but the evidence is there. Case in point:

On a Saturday night in August, 2010, a week before starting college, Dharun Ravi decided to look online for his future Rutgers roommate. He was living with his parents in Plainsboro.

A little before midnight, Ravi began an I.M. exchange with Jason Tam, a high-school friend. Ravi had found some of Clementi's posts on a Yahoo forum: something about fish tanks, Ravi told Tam, and something else “pertaining to violins.”

Just before midnight, Ravi wrote to Tam: “FUCK MY LIFE / He’s gay.” He had found Clementi’s name on Justusboys, a gay-pornography site that also has discussion areas. Ravi sent Tam a link to a page that contained sex-tinged ads but was otherwise mundane.

In the next few minutes, Ravi wrote “wtf”—“what the fuck”—seven times. He posted a link to the Justusboys page on his Twitter account: “Found out my roommate is gay.”

Two minutes after the Justusboys discovery, Ravi was making a new observation, perhaps based on Clementi’s worry about fixing his computer. “He’s poor,” Ravi wrote, adding a frowning emoticon. He continued, "Dude I hate poor people."

At six minutes past midnight, Tam offered Ravi a summary. The roommate was “a gay person who asks a lot of questions, is mostly techno illiterate, and makes tshirt ideas.” Ravi replied, “I’m literally the opposite of that / FUCK.”

Tam wrote, “wow this guy is REALLY fruity.” Ravi said, “I’m such a thug compared to him.” Shortly after, Tam wrote, "Its the fags like this guy that just cause all sorts of trouble.” Ravi replied, “I know.” And then: "He would be born in January / what a gay month. My dad is going to throw him out the window.”

In an August conversation about his roommate, Ravi had joked, “I’ll have Jarvis warn me if he tries to rape me at night.”

Would Dharun have done what he did if Tyler was straight? I doubt it. The whole purpose of setting up the webcam and planning a "viewing party" was to ridicule Tyler for having gay sex -- to get a laugh out of it at Tyler's expense. He wanted his friends to watch Tyler and his guest as if they were barnyard animals -- freaks of nature to be observed from afar. If Tyler was straight, there would've been nothing to ridicule, and the incident likely would've never happened. So yes, I do think there's a direct link between Tyler's sexuality and Dharun's motivation for doing what he did. The texts alone are evidence of that, hence the bias charge.

 

[Ninja108]

Just saw his interview on tv. He doesn't get it, he really doesn't and I don't think a sit down with Tyler's parents will make him understand that either.

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually, that's not true. Have you read any of the text messages that Dharun sent to his friend(s) in the days prior to the webcam incident? There's plenty of evidence to suggest that what he did was motivated by homophobia. I'm not saying that's actually the case, but the evidence is there. Case in point:


Would Dharun have done what he did if Tyler was straight? I doubt it. The whole purpose of setting up the webcam and planning a "viewing party" was to ridicule Tyler for having gay sex -- to get a laugh out of it at Tyler's expense. He wanted his friends to watch Tyler and his guest as if they were barnyard animals -- freaks of nature to be observed from afar. If Tyler was straight, there would've been nothing to ridicule, and the incident likely would've never happened. So yes, I do think there's a direct link between Tyler's sexuality and Dharun's motivation for doing what he did. The texts alone are evidence of that, hence the bias charge.

I see the point being "I'm totally the opposite of that". I doubt Tyler being gay made much more of difference than his being "techno illiterate", or poor, or even quiet. It was just a big batch of alienness.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just saw his interview on tv. He doesn't get it, he really doesn't and I don't think a sit down with Tyler's parents will make him understand that either.

Got a link? All I've found is clips.

The thing that really bothers me is that he's so confident nothing he did contributed to Tyler's decision. That's just bizarre.

Though I now understand the refusal to take the deal.

 

[Rolyo85]

30 days in jail and 3 years of probation. It's definitely on the "slap on the wrist" side :/

 

[Ninja108]

I'll say this, at the end of the day,Ravi didn't push Tyler off the bridge. Having said that,the idea that it's no big deal to violate someone's privacy and use their private moments to humilate them is unacceptable. THe book thrown at him shouldn't have been a hardcover one but it shouldn't have been a leaflet either.

 

[CowboyBob]

The sentence doesn't seem right. He didn't actually kill Tyler but he drove Tyler to kill himself.

Nothing good came out of this entire scenario. Lives and families ruined all because of one stupid kid.

 

[CowboyBob]

that's never been proven in a court of law, though. it shouldn't weigh in his sentencing unless a jury has been presented evidence to the fact and found him guilty (of murder or manslaughter)

The videotaping didn't drive him to suicide? What did? It's circumstantial. If Tyler wasn't videotaped and his roommate was supportive and respected privacy would Clementi have done it? I don't think so.

 

[jackoroe]

The videotaping didn't drive him to suicide? What did? It's circumstantial. If Tyler wasn't videotaped and his roommate was supportive and respected privacy would Clementi have done it? I don't think so.

Tyler's family didn't want Ravi to go to jail. The victim's family gets to make a statement to the court as to how the crime impacts on them in NJ. The judge apparently gave great weight to their wishes.

There are no winners here. The court's decision is what it is.

 

[chance1]

I thought the initial finding and potential for 10 years was CRAZY

that the boy was going to made an example of

and that was terrible

but this ........ this seems far too lenient

shouldn't there be some long lasting community service? towards the gay community?

for the boys sake - learning?

what a 360 here

 

[CowboyBob]

Tyler's family didn't want Ravi to go to jail. The victim's family gets to make a statement to the court as to how the crime impacts on them in NJ. The judge apparently gave great weight to their wishes.

There are no winners here. The court's decision is what it is.

Like I said, the whole scenario is sad. Families ruined and a life ended.

Moral of the story, mind your own business and don't be an asshole.

 

[hotatlboi]

I'm not discussing the suicide. I'm discussing the crimes he was convicted for. I am not even arguing for 10 years. At it best it should have been half that. 3-5 years seems more appropriate, and deportation should have been on the table regardless.

I think 3-5 years would be too harsh for this, especially when it was clear from the evidence presented that Ravi was not homophobic and did it more for amusement (though still in a very hurtful way).

 

[Rolyo85]

3-5 years for a spying on someone? Why not cut his toes and nose as well?

What he should have gotten in my opinion was a good half year or three months in prison and MONTHS of community service, plus a much bigger fine. By which I mean add a zero in the end.

 

[Rolyo85]

It was meant to add artistic flair.

Anyway, I am against any lengthy incarceration of college students for anything less than physical violence. Wrecking somebody's life to prove a point doesn't really prove a point most of the time.

Either way, this sentence is laughable, but I was watching CNN at the gym, and they thought that was sending a "strong message" that spying on people with a racial or sexual bias in mind would not go unpunished...

 

[Rolyo85]

Artistic flair? Or rather an attempt to discredit an opposing argument without any proof?

You are against the proper legal punishment handed down in accordance to the law? That's your own prerogative. A 30 day sentence is a slap on a wrist, and it is likely he won't even serve that. How is my sentence laughable? A 30 day sentence isn't sending a strong message. In fact the sentence violates legal procedure. The charges demanded a certain minimum.

Wrecking somebody's life? Who cares about Ravi's life? He wrecked someone else's life. Do you care about that? I guess not.

Ah, my dear, dear Giancarlo... Always with the same rhetoric, even when it doesn't fit. What possible PROOF do I need for having an opinion? Please, pick your words better.

And I'm sorry, when did you become a better legal expert than the NJ judge, to know what amounts to the "proper legal punishment"?

Either way, the message IS strong. Want proof? Read this:

Michelangelo Signorile: Ravi, Romney, and Anti-Gay Bullying: What a Difference 50 Years Makes

I STARTED the topic necromancy with saying that I think it's too much of a "slap on the wrist". I said that first. I just don't think the prison sentence is the element that needs boosting. Again - opinion, don't need "proof" for that.

And I do care about Ravi's life. Neither of us here, or anyone else will ever have any sort of "proof" that Ravi wrecked Clementi's life. We had long arguments about it in this very topic, and I don't plan on reengaging in it. Suffice to say people like Dan Savage, as well as other LGBT activists and Cleenti's own parents were against throwing the book at Ravi as you wanted. But even so the current sentence is a joke.