Do You Believe In An Afterlife?

[metta]

I wonder if some people seem to have heighted senses and are a magnet for the deceased.

Fascinating stories. Thanks for sharing. I really don't know what to make of them.

I have had so many people die in my life. I miss them dearly. So much so that I even went to a few psychics. I thought it was worth at least trying. I didn't really get anything out of it in the end. I felt like they were just trying to tell me what I wanted to hear.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I wonder if some people seem to have heighted senses and are a magnet for the deceased.

I try to remember that perception IS reality. That's not only social and political truth, but how the brain and body work. So, if someone believes and sees ghosts and I don't, that doesn't stop it from being their reality.

Remember parents, or grandparents, or friends telling of allaying children's bedtime fears with checking closets and under beds? I think that's not a bad thing, not as condescension, but as validation.

I also think it's intrinsically good for people to believe things can happen, short of hysteria. If it's perception, good. If it's imagination, even better.

 

[Tantric-Master]

Expanding my post 93 per post 97.

My one grandmother had three experiences I heard her and family members talk about them some time later. 1. Around 8:00 PM my grandparents sent my father and his sister, as young children, to go upstairs and start getting ready for bed and they would shortly come upstairs to tuck them in. The children started up the stairs, which had an L bend, and heard bedsprings squeak from someone getting off a bed and heard footsteps come down the hall and start down the stairs. They ran downstairs and said they were afraid because there was a man upstairs. My grandparents went upstairs and couldn't find anyone. Later that night my grandparents heard the news that my grandmother's brother was murdered at about that time. 2. My grandmother got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and passed through the kitchen. Her brother-in-law, who lived about 6 houses down the street, walked across her kitchen, turned around and walked out through her back door without opening it. She checked the door and it was locked. The next day she called her sister to find out how they were and they were fine. Later, at suppertime, her brother-in-law had a heart attack and died. 3. My grandparents had a two-family house and lived in the first floor suite and rented the second floor suite to a young couple. Both suites had a back door to a common back hall and stairwell the went from the basement past both floors and to the attic. One afternoon they heard someone going up the attic stairs and the upstairs lady tenant came down to tell them she saw a young boy going up the attic stairs. My grandparents searched the attic and couldn't find anyone. Later they heard that my grandmother's sister's young grandson had died at about that time.

My one cousin had two experiences that she told me about. One of her elderly neighbors had wandered away and was missing for a few days before they found him in a field. My cousin knew he had died because he had appeared to her. She was washing in the bathroom and he appeared. She told him that she wasn't dressed and wanted privacy and he seemed embarrassed and he went out to the hall. Another time she was sleeping at night and had an old wobbly chair next to her bed that squeaked when someone sat on it. She was awakened by it squeaking one night and an elderly neighbor woman who had died was sitting and fidgeting on it. She couldn't fall back to sleep because of the squeaking and finally asked her deceased mother to take this woman away so she could fall back to sleep. The squeaking stopped.

I wonder if some people seem to have heighted senses and are a magnet for the deceased.

Those are excellent examples. Thank you for sharing. As I mentioned in a previous post, ADCs (after death communications) are far more common than most people would suspect. However, as I also mentioned, many people are reluctant to share such experiences.

My sense is that some people are particularly sensitive to such communications (a "magnet" in your terminology). However, my sense is also that, if the disincarnate entity really wants to communicate something, they can break through any internal chatter that we might have.

 

[Tantric-Master]

I try to remember that perception IS reality. That's not only social and political truth, but how the brain and body work. So, if someone believes and sees ghosts and I don't, that doesn't stop it from being their reality.

Remember parents, or grandparents, or friends telling of allaying children's bedtime fears with checking closets and under beds? I think that's not a bad thing, not as condescension, but as validation.

I also think it's intrinsically good for people to believe things can happen, short of hysteria. If it's perception, good. If it's imagination, even better.

As you pointed out, "perception IS reality". That's why I (and others posting here) have used examples that are somewhat verifiable. In one of the examples I provided, I saw my deceased father at the foot of my bed ... though my friend in the same room didn't see anything. He was convinced, however, that I was wide awake and was indeed seeing something that he himself could not see. As my teacher would often say when "unusual" phenomena manifested: "Meditate on how such things are possible". Such meditations/contemplation can lead us to a deeper understanding of the Reality.

 

[Rickrock]

I had forgotten one story. My mother's sister, my aunt, was dying of cancer. She needed hospice care but was adamant that she didn't want to go to a nursing home. My mother said she could stay in our house. My sister gave up her room, and slept in the living room or basement. Hospice workers came over several times a week or daily to help. This was over 10 days or 2 weeks. One day my mother was tinkering around the room straightening up and she noticed that my aunt was staring intently at the end of her bed. After awhile my aunt turned to my mother and said "who was that woman". My mother had not seen anyone else in the room. My aunt died about 2 days later.

 

[rareboy]

^ If she was on meds, it is very common for cancer patients or the dying to imagine seeing someone else there.

 

[metta]

I believe that the human brain is imperfect and sometimes illogical. It is 'wired' to believe things that may have been originally created for survival: tribalism, most conspiracy theories, and literally creating thousands of religions/spirituality throughout history. (Off-topic: religions were originally created to create structure in society, being that they were created prior to governments, and to answer things that people did not have an answer to.)

 

[fredroy]

My Dad use to say he could go visit someone and after a while nature calls. He would ask to use the bathroom and get the normal "3rd door on the right down the hallway" and he would say "I know". I've done that. I figure it's just knowing how a lot of houses are laid out.

The old house in Austin had a large for the area Live Oak in the front yard. Side track... at Braker Lane and I-35 there is a shopping center of sorts. It was a Safeway and became Northern Tools. There's a huge Live Oak in the parking lot with a sign saying "they" think the tree is about 500 years old. From looking at the bark size and comparing to other oaks, the tree at the house was pushing 300 easy. Back to the story. One of the kids swore up and down there was someone living in his bedroom closet. Looks like an Indian. He didn't see him often. Well, could be.
And then one day I was brushing my teeth in the Master Bath and saw something out of the corner of my eye. In the bathroom, door closed, no one else in the house. The something was a naked Indian and he walked right through the toilet and guess what's on the other side of the wall? The kid's bedroom closet. I saw him a couple of times. When we moved I invited him to get in the car and move with us. I don't think he did.

I had a cat that adopted me. Fido. When we moved here she just wouldn't go outside. Out in the country with scary noises and smells. She got old and feeble to the point her day was between her litter box in the laundry room and her food dish in the kitchen and sleeping on the tile by the wood stove. I finally took her to the vet and that's never fun. About a month later I'm sitting at the dining room table eating my Cheerios and reading a magazine. Out of the corner of my eye, clear as a bell, there goes Fido walking past. Towards the wood stove. I saw her a few more times. Sometimes going to the kitchen. It didn't matter which end of the table I sat at so I don't think it was something wonky with one of my eyes. She faded away after almost two years.

Then there is Fred. Brittany Spaniel. I'd had him from a puppy and he was my shadow. He was an outside dog and always quick to hike a leg. He made to almost 17. About a month later I'm sitting right here, checking e-mail and visiting on mIRC and here comes Fred. Bounding past the door to this room and up on the bed in the spare room. Did a circle and hopped down and galloped back up the hall. It's like 2 am. I looked around the house and everything seemed normal. Had to pee and the clock in the hall bath had stopped. At 2:10. Replacing the battery didn't work. The next day I noticed there were foot prints on the spare bed's comforter.

I have more.

 

[fredroy]

Here's more.

I'll spare the drama but my Mom moved in. Guess what spare bedroom she was in? And being Mom, she had Dad's cremains. Stashed under the bed. Once in a while I'd see someone in my peripheral vision walk past the window on the front deck. Different guy than the Indian from the old house. Mom went to the nursing home. I'd still see the guy once in a while. Then Mom died. Now I have both of their cremains.

They were taken to the house they built. About half of each was put in the walls. Cinder block walls. The rest sprinkled in the back yard. Mom on one side and Dad on the other. She did not want to be mixed. No more guy walking past the window since.

Other than hiring the slab being poured and finished, they built the house from the iron in the foundation to the top of the roof. So that's where they are.

A few months ago I had a messed up dream. Scared me. First off, I don't notice color in my dreams. Sepia at most. So I'm up on a 2nd floor porch and looking across about 60 feet of fresh mown St. Augustine grass. And there are several rose bushes and a few azalea bushes, all in full bloom. A happy looking bright and sunny morning. And everything is in color. There's Mom and Dad parked in the street waving and telling me "let's go". The car? How about a '57 Windsor painted the blue-green color of a '63-ish Chevy BelAire? It had three lights on each side. I yelled back that I can't go now because I have stuff to do here. They got in the car and drove away.

I'm sort of freaked about where that dream came from. I had a strong feeling that if I get in that car I'm not getting out of bed in the morning. But if I can see Fido and Fred and an Indian wandering around the bathroom, yeah.

 

[Tantric-Master]

My Dad use to say he could go visit someone and after a while nature calls. He would ask to use the bathroom and get the normal "3rd door on the right down the hallway" and he would say "I know". I've done that. I figure it's just knowing how a lot of houses are laid out.

The old house in Austin had a large for the area Live Oak in the front yard. Side track... at Braker Lane and I-35 there is a shopping center of sorts. It was a Safeway and became Northern Tools. There's a huge Live Oak in the parking lot with a sign saying "they" think the tree is about 500 years old. From looking at the bark size and comparing to other oaks, the tree at the house was pushing 300 easy. Back to the story. One of the kids swore up and down there was someone living in his bedroom closet. Looks like an Indian. He didn't see him often. Well, could be.
And then one day I was brushing my teeth in the Master Bath and saw something out of the corner of my eye. In the bathroom, door closed, no one else in the house. The something was a naked Indian and he walked right through the toilet and guess what's on the other side of the wall? The kid's bedroom closet. I saw him a couple of times. When we moved I invited him to get in the car and move with us. I don't think he did.

I had a cat that adopted me. Fido. When we moved here she just wouldn't go outside. Out in the country with scary noises and smells. She got old and feeble to the point her day was between her litter box in the laundry room and her food dish in the kitchen and sleeping on the tile by the wood stove. I finally took her to the vet and that's never fun. About a month later I'm sitting at the dining room table eating my Cheerios and reading a magazine. Out of the corner of my eye, clear as a bell, there goes Fido walking past. Towards the wood stove. I saw her a few more times. Sometimes going to the kitchen. It didn't matter which end of the table I sat at so I don't think it was something wonky with one of my eyes. She faded away after almost two years.

Then there is Fred. Brittany Spaniel. I'd had him from a puppy and he was my shadow. He was an outside dog and always quick to hike a leg. He made to almost 17. About a month later I'm sitting right here, checking e-mail and visiting on mIRC and here comes Fred. Bounding past the door to this room and up on the bed in the spare room. Did a circle and hopped down and galloped back up the hall. It's like 2 am. I looked around the house and everything seemed normal. Had to pee and the clock in the hall bath had stopped. At 2:10. Replacing the battery didn't work. The next day I noticed there were foot prints on the spare bed's comforter.

I have more.

As you duly noted, there have also been reported ADCs (after death communications) with animals such as the cat and dog you mentioned in your post. One of my dear cats passed away on July 11, 2023, and I have felt her presence in many ways since her passing. I know that she is fine. She indicated that she missed us all and invited us to join her where she is since it's better than life on this earth plane.

 

[Tantric-Master]

(Off-topic: religions were originally created to create structure in society, being that they were created prior to governments, and to answer things that people did not have an answer to.)

(Somewhat Off-topic but relevant: "religions were originally created ... to answer things that people did not have an answer too." )

Back on-topic: The above comment about religions appears to be a very significant factor in the myriads of "after life" theories created by the founders of the various religions and/or "improved" by the priests, ministers, gurus, etc. who took over those religions. LOL The Jehovah Witnesses, for example, have been predicting "the Rapture" aspect of their version of the after-life since 1914 (not a typo ... since 1914 LOL).

 

[Araucaria]

^The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to have a way of painting themselves into a corner, and then doing convoluted reasoning to save their prophetic declarations when the predicted result doesn't pan out. Thus, when their prediction that Jesus would return to rule the earth in 1914 didn't pan out, they saved their declaration by saying Jesus DID return (but it's not evident to the rest of us). They probably would have been better off to say that they didn't understand the prophecy, or even that they got it wrong, but their theology won't permit that.

But it seems that the Evangelicals are just as adamant about their views of the Rapture/Second Coming, and many of them have really gotten their theology wrapped up in it. Keep in mind that the Evangelical group is much larger and much more influential than the Jehovah's Witnesses. And it definitely promotes a us vs. them worldview, where they "the good people" get enraptured up to heaven, whereas "the bad people," i.e., everybody else, gets "left behind" to suffer in a post-apocalyptic world. To be honest, I think that Christianity would do well to drop the Second Coming theology entirely.

 

[Tantric-Master]

^The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to have a way of painting themselves into a corner, and then doing convoluted reasoning to save their prophetic declarations when the predicted result doesn't pan out. Thus, when their prediction that Jesus would return to rule the earth in 1914 didn't pan out, they saved their declaration by saying Jesus DID return (but it's not evident to the rest of us). They probably would have been better off to say that they didn't understand the prophecy, or even that they got it wrong, but their theology won't permit that.

But it seems that the Evangelicals are just as adamant about their views of the Rapture/Second Coming, and many of them have really gotten their theology wrapped up in it. Keep in mind that the Evangelical group is much larger and much more influential than the Jehovah's Witnesses. And it definitely promotes a us vs. them worldview, where they "the good people" get enraptured up to heaven, whereas "the bad people," i.e., everybody else, gets "left behind" to suffer in a post-apocalyptic world. To be honest, I think that Christianity would do well to drop the Second Coming theology entirely.

Your understanding of the "Rapture" is very consistent with my own. Whenever I asked the Jehovah Witnesses questions regarding the basis for this belief in the "Rapture", I got some very confusing responses.

I then did some research on whether there is at least some biblical support for the "Rapture" and came across this very good YouTube video. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that all this talk about the "Rapture" is really stretching some quotes by Paul and loosely associating them with other vague scriptural passages. That is the point of the video and it makes sense to me. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about the origins of the "Rapture" as this seems to be just one more of many attempts by various religions to present their OPINIONS on some aspects of the "Afterlife" which is very loosely (very very loosely) "supported" by scripture.

As for the "Second Coming of Christ", my sense (definitely not consistent with traditional Christian theology) is that the "Second Coming" is NOT necessarily the physical reappearance of Jesus ... but rather the emergence of the Christ Consciousness in each and every one of us through purification ("Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God."). Some Christians whom I know have said the same thing and this may be just an attempt to explain why Jesus hasn't reappeared in person as the early Christians seemed to have believed was imminent in their lifetime.

P.S. This discussion on the afterlife and various theories related to the afterlife is really very interesting as there are some very well informed people contributing to this thread.

 

[Dargelos]

Even though I am a devout heathen, there is one thing that makes me believe in the afterlife, for nine minutes anyway.
Written by JS Bach, arranged by Virgil Fox, played on the Wanamaker, the size queens favourite organ, this piece depicts what it is like to die and go to heaven.
And it does what it says on the tin. This is actualy what dying and going to heaven would sound like. Really. The word awesome has been worn threadbare but, remembering what it used to mean, have you ever heard anything as awesome as this?

And then it's over and reality returns, the reality in which no magnificent music plays, you just croak and it's game over.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

the Wanamaker, the size queen's favourite organ

I have tried and tried, and I just cannot get myself to like the Wanamaker organ. All those pipes, all those stops that are supposed to offer all the different timbres of an orchestra, and every single stop has, to my ears, the tinny, cheesy quality of organs at silent-movie theaters and baseball parks. I'd much, much rather hear the Fred Jacobs organ four blocks down Broad Street at the Kimmel Center.

I suppose I'm getting off-topic here ...

 

[Tantric-Master]

Even though I am a devout heathen, there is one thing that makes me believe in the afterlife, for nine minutes anyway.
Written by JS Bach, arranged by Virgil Fox, played on the Wanamaker, the size queens favourite organ, this piece depicts what it is like to die and go to heaven.
And it does what it says on the tin. This is actualy what dying and going to heaven would sound like. Really. The word awesome has been worn threadbare but, remembering what it used to mean, have you ever heard anything as awesome as this?

And then it's over and reality returns, the reality in which no magnificent music plays, you just croak and it's game over.

I personally love organ music but this particular piece seemed very heavy. At my father's funeral, I chose the final processional song as we followed the coffin out of the church. The hymn I chose was "Going Home" .... which is taken from Dvorak's New World Symphony. That song still brings tears to my eyes when I hear it.

When I had my near death experience many many years ago and directly experienced that proverbial "peace that surpasseth all understanding", I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that life continues (in some way) after physical death ... and that death is simply a transition. Physical death really is "Going Home" as I see it.

 

[Dargelos]

I'm sure you're right, but for size queens, sheer quantity rules over quality. So many 32 footers and a 64 foot, the ultimate bottom.

I have tried and tried, and I just cannot get myself to like the Wanamaker organ. All those pipes, all those stops that are supposed to offer all the different timbres of an orchestra, and every single stop has, to my ears, the tinny, cheesy quality of organs at silent-movie theaters and baseball parks. I'd much, much rather hear the Fred Jacobs organ four blocks down Broad Street at the Kimmel Center.

I suppose I'm getting off-topic here ...

 

[NotHardUp1]

I have tried and tried, and I just cannot get myself to like the Wanamaker organ. All those pipes, all those stops that are supposed to offer all the different timbres of an orchestra, and every single stop has, to my ears, the tinny, cheesy quality of organs at silent-movie theaters and baseball parks.

I'm pretty certain it doesn't that much tremolo to get into heaven.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

I'm pretty certain it doesn't that much tremolo to get into heaven.

That. The Wanamaker organ's tremolo. Even the stops that don't have it sort of sound like they do.

I picture St. Peter hearing that tremolo and wanting to give you a breathalyzer test before he lets you through the Pearly Gates.


PS - My mistake: it's the Fred Cooper Memorial Organ at the Kimmel Center.

I'm sure you're right, but for size queens, sheer quantity rules over quality. So many 32 footers and a 64 foot, the ultimate bottom.

The Cooper Organ has 32' stops, and that's as much as almost any size queen should be able to take.


PPS -- Should we even be having this discussion without @PalacePaul?

 

[Araucaria]

I personally love organ music but this particular piece seemed very heavy. At my father's funeral, I chose the final processional song as we followed the coffin out of the church. The hymn I chose was "Going Home" .... which is taken from Dvorak's New World Symphony. That song still brings tears to my eyes when I hear it.

When I had my near death experience many many years ago and directly experienced that proverbial "peace that surpasseth all understanding", I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that life continues (in some way) after physical death ... and that death is simply a transition. Physical death really is "Going Home" as I see it.

This is the first time I've heard this piece played on the organ, but the Second Movement of Dvorak's New World Symphony is perhaps the most beautiful classical music piece I have ever heard.