Do You Require Your Significant Other to Be Out?

[maxpowr9]

I would say be out and proud (bad cliche but true) to the people that mattered. I remember I went on a date with a guy once he was real sweet. However, he absolutely refused to hold hands in public. To me, that was a deal breaker. If he is afraid to express himself with a simple gesture of holding hands, that implies deeper self-esteem issues that I have no desire to deal with. Confidence IMO is the sexiest trait any person can have. We all have our flaws and quirks but if we can accept them for what they are, that is empowering.

 

[AsianDream]

I can say that it would be very difficult for me to be in a relationship with someone who isn't out. Or moreso...difficult for them to be closeted while in a relationship with me.

I'm not out and never likely to be - that would mean being estranged from my whole family back in Hong Kong.

The first of my boyfriends when I came to Australia was always nagging me to "Come Out". I was quite happy socialising with our gay friends - but didn't want to be openly gay in public.

There is also for me the fact that the Chinese government keeps an eye on their students studying overseas (even to some extent those of us from HK). I'm not at all worried about going to gay venues etc - but if I one day work in mainland China - don't want my file to say I'm gay.

Anyway - the issue of me not being out was why he and I split up.

I was perfectly up-front with him that I'm not "out" and never would be - I think that in a relationship you shouldn't go into it expecting to change someone.

I consider I have good and sensible reasons for not publicly revealing or discussing my sexuality and resent very much being told what I "Should" do.

 

[Red Storm]

can't do it. what am i going to tell others? we are roommates? staying together to save on mortgage/rent? I can't. some guys do it and works for them. won't work for me.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Yes, he has to be out.

If he isn't, we might have sex a few times.

But he'd never be a "significant other".

 

[Knucklehead]

I Might fuck around with him,but that would be about it..I couldn't deal trying to have a relationship with someone who is too ashamed of our relationship to have me meet the people he cares about..

 

[theFallenGod]

If you can't love and accept yourself how the hell can I expect you to love and accept me?

 

[AsianDream]

I'd still say - Love shouldn't mean trying to force your partner to publicly reveal their sexuaility if they don't want to.

Obviously - I'd try to avoid ever getting into a relationship with someone that thought our sexual activites had to be public property.

 

[FunFunk]

The closet is a place of shame. A relationship is something of which to be proud. If you hide your light under a bushel, it will eventually go out.

Nice metaphor.

 

[FunFunk]

I would say be out and proud (bad cliche but true) to the people that mattered. I remember I went on a date with a guy once he was real sweet. However, he absolutely refused to hold hands in public. To me, that was a deal breaker. If he is afraid to express himself with a simple gesture of holding hands, that implies deeper self-esteem issues that I have no desire to deal with. Confidence IMO is the sexiest trait any person can have. We all have our flaws and quirks but if we can accept them for what they are, that is empowering.

We all do have our flaws and quirks and accepting them as part of the whole package is empowering. But, being gay or bi is not a quirk and definitely not a flaw. If you think about it, since one's orientation isn't a flaw or even a quirk, that should make it easier for a person to accept that important aspect of himself and his "whole package" and, further, expect others to accept the same.

 

[FunFunk]

I'm not out and never likely to be - that would mean being estranged from my whole family back in Hong Kong.

The first of my boyfriends when I came to Australia was always nagging me to "Come Out". I was quite happy socialising with our gay friends - but didn't want to be openly gay in public.

There is also for me the fact that the Chinese government keeps an eye on their students studying overseas (even to some extent those of us from HK). I'm not at all worried about going to gay venues etc - but if I one day work in mainland China - don't want my file to say I'm gay.

Anyway - the issue of me not being out was why he and I split up.

I was perfectly up-front with him that I'm not "out" and never would be - I think that in a relationship you shouldn't go into it expecting to change someone.

I consider I have good and sensible reasons for not publicly revealing or discussing my sexuality and resent very much being told what I "Should" do.

Number one: Many people who have come out (or been "discovered") and been wrongfully abandoned by their families and friends still go on to have rich, meaningful, happy and honest lives with those who love them for who they truly are and, if they so choose, start their own families. We find families in many different relationships, not just biological. And, as I always say, friends who can't accept you for who you are are not really your friends.

Number two: In today's world, it's possible to find companies and countries that are accepting, or at least tolerant, of openly gay staff and residents. I would go so far as to say that if the company or country (any country) you're working or living in is so intolerant, maybe it's time to make a move to another firm or nation which appreciates you for who you are while having access to any skills and talent you bring as well as the contributions you make toward that country's economy. I'm not saying you should just up and move, lol, but there's food for thought when businesses and governments that feed off you, that are benefiting from your presence and contributions and talents don't accept you for who you are. For my part, I would find it difficult to be loyal to anyone or any entity that doesn't accept me for who I am (or isn't at least trying to).

Number three: The whole issue of being out and openly gay or bi has significance far beyond just the level of the individual. On a higher level, it's about getting the masses of citizens from all backgrounds to see not only how common being gay is but also the fact that there's nothing wrong or shameful or second-class about it. It's about becoming as generally accepted as straight people are. When it's obvious that large numbers of people share a given characteristic, that characteristic is more likely to be accepted and considered normal by the majority of the general populace. But that can't happen for gays and bis if their standard practice is to stay in the closet, or "discrete" or "on the down-low" or whatever other name you want to give the same practice. Harvey Milk was right.

And, number four: Besides all that, one important issue remains: Who's to say that, for all your attempts at "discretion," your family or your employer or someone else you're trying to keep the secret from won't find out anyway? Trust me, it happens.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Respect yourself.

If he doesn't want to be out as your boyfriend, he's probably not worth it.

 

[AsianDream]

Number one: Many people who have come out (or been "discovered") and been wrongfully abandoned by their families and friends still go on to have rich, meaningful, happy and honest lives with those who love them for who they truly are and, if they so choose, start their own families. We find families in many different relationships, not just biological. And, as I always say, friends who can't accept you for who you are are not really your friends.

All very high minded - but It's not possible to just "change for a new family" - you just don't get to chose new parents - or simply junk your whole culture and friends.

In other words - keeping my existing family and social connections is important to me - and I don't really have any burning desire to be "OUT" with them.

What I like to do sexually is entirely my own business - anyway - how do you come out as BI anyway? Is it any concern of the rest of the world that I like having sex with men and women - do they need to know I've got a serious watersports fetish?

So I give lectures to other students sometimes - do I need to be "out" and give them my whole sexual history?

Anyway - don't ever expect me to respect a "you must be out" facist - they are not someone I would chose as a partner - and would probably steer real clear of even talking to in real life

How do I know they won't suddenly take it on themselves to "OUT" me for my own good - not unheard of amoung the "out and proud" crowd.

 

[FunFunk]

Great posts, funfunk!

Thanks, huntneo. I try, when I feel passionate about something.

 

[Anders123]

I couldn't imagine being so insensitive as to turn someone away because they didn't feel ready to come out yet. Though, I believe at some point, everybody should come out.

Someone who is ashamed of who they are is unattractive. Someone who accepts who they are and is, or is aiming to take steps toward openly being that person is much more attractive.

There's no reason to turn someone away because they're not ready for everyone to know just yet. Though, if someone was TOTALLY adamant that they were never going to come out, I couldn't see myself wanting to be with them.

 

[Kyanimal]

I am agreeing with AsianDream more, and more, here. Sometimes, there are things beyond our control that simply require Public discretion.

I'm the first male, in several generations of my family, that did not go into the church. My Great Grandparents, Grandparents, Father, Uncles, Cousins, are/were ALL ministers. Not only was/is my surname TOO well known, there are/were Thousands of people that knew who I was when I had NO idea who they were.

Therefore, my Social reputation (unfortunately) could have a tremendous impact on my immediate, and extended, Family's Public standing, and, therefore, their livelihood. And, since that was impressed upon me, from since I can remember, even as I got older, it was not an easy thing to shake.

Luckily, "My" Kev understood this ... well ... eventually. My Private life was none of the Public's damned business!

There were, and still are, reasons I live 500mi. away from Home! And, even at that, sometimes it has proven to not be far enough!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[FunFunk]

I am agreeing with AsianDream more, and more, here. Sometimes, there are things beyond our control that simply require Public discretion.

I'm the first male, in several generations of my family, that did not go into the church. My Great Grandparents, Grandparents, Father, Uncles, Cousins, are/were ALL ministers. Not only was/is my surname TOO well known, there are/were Thousands of people that knew who I was when I had NO idea who they were.

Therefore, my Social reputation (unfortunately) could have a tremendous impact on my immediate, and extended, Family's Public standing, and, therefore, their livelihood. And, since that was impressed upon me, from since I can remember, even as I got older, it was not an easy thing to shake.

Luckily, "My" Kev understood this ... well ... eventually. My Private life was none of the Public's damned business!

There were, and still are, reasons I live 500mi. away from Home! And, even at that, sometimes it has proven to not be far enough!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

Does your family know you're gay? (I assume they do.) I suppose not being "public" about your being gay is one way you can handle it if it works for you.

This is not to criticise or lecture, but only to offer a contrasting viewpoint. From my point of view, and many others, your sexual orientation is part of your individual character and does not reflect in any way on other members of your family. Families, both well known to the public and obscure, are made up of diverse personalities and character traits. Sexual orientation is but one of many such traits. I'm sure we could name a few famous families that are considered by the public to represent certain values, but have members who, in some way or another, famously contradict those same values. Yet those families survive intact just fine.

It seems disguising that aspect of who you are in public and moving far away from your family are rather big sacrifices you made for others in your family and in the name of family honor. My concern is that this practice reinforces, in the eyes of much of the public, the notion that somehow it's a shame, a dishonor to be gay, a notion the gay rights movement, justifiably, is striving to eradicate and gay people in general have long wished was nothing but ancient history.

You and your family seem to believe that if you came out publicly you would somehow be responsible for jeopardizing the reputations, livelihoods and wellbeing of your other individual family members when, in reality, that couldn't be further from the case. Yes, some of the public may be unduly upset that you're gay and twist their reasoning such that they turn against the rest of your family, but that's a problem that would originate solely with that segment of the public, not with your family and certainly not with you. After all, as you said, your private life is not their business. That also means it's truly not their business to judge others for who they really are and, further, they have no business essentially imposing their personal rules on you and how you conduct your life in public with your partner.

Further, your family members made a choice as to which occupations they would enter. There's no way you could make a similar kind of choice about your sexual preferences.

It seems a heavy and unfair burden that others have forced you to carry on your shoulders. If I were in your position, I would shrug those shoulders. (I suppose I'm a bit rebellious that way.) Others in similar positions have done so and been better off for it.

 

[bankside]

I feel very strongly that friends or family who would choose to reject me or my guy, or view us through a lens of shame, should not have the advantage of our company. It has nothing at all to do with sharing the details of our sex life with them. That is of course something that can remain private. The fact that we are a couple cannot be hidden. It is a public fact. It is proper for it to be a public fact.

And if the livelihood of friends or family depends on publicly rejecting me or my guy, or if they earn their keep through making gay people feel shameful about the gender of who they love, then I wish them whatever utter, crushing, destitution might befall them by my coming out. They don't deserve my company, and even more so they don't deserve a career based on provoking the kind of self-loathing and family judgement that frequently leads young gay people to the point of suicide.

And if my family did all of these things in the public eye, I would use whatever spotlight their public profile provided to denounce them.

So yes, I would require my guy to be out.

 

[FunFunk]

I feel very strongly that friends or family who would choose to reject me or my guy, or view us through a lens of shame, should not have the advantage of our company. It has nothing at all to do with sharing the details of our sex life with them. That is of course something that can remain private. The fact that we are a couple cannot be hidden. It is a public fact. It is proper for it to be a public fact.

And if the livelihood of friends or family depends on publicly rejecting me or my guy, or if they earn their keep through making gay people feel shameful about the gender of who they love, then I wish them whatever utter, crushing, destitution might befall them by my coming out. They don't deserve my company, and even more so they don't deserve a career based on provoking the kind of self-loathing and family judgement that frequently leads young gay people to the point of suicide.

And if my family did all of these things in the public eye, I would use whatever spotlight their public profile provided to denounce them.

So yes, I would require my guy to be out.

Well said, bankside. Thanks.

 

[theFallenGod]

It comes down to the fact that I am a human being... I refuse to be someone's "dirty little secret"

If you can't treat me as an equal and demand I hide myself because of your insecurities... Then have a nice life.

 

[Kyanimal]

Excellent posts FunFunk, Bankside, and FallenGod!! And I agree with everything you've said!!

Now ... let me try to untangle this a bit ...

Yes, my immediate family knows I'm gay, knows "My" Kev, and, I suspect, even like him more than they do me!

And, my Dad has been Very vocal, and very much "out", about the Methodist Church not only accepting Gays, but also ordaining them as ministers. And, that was even before I came "Out" to him!

What I was trying to offer was support, understanding, empathy, for AsianDream's cultural/social situation, and his perspective on the Public's "Right to Know", which does not exist, even though "The Public" thinks it does.

I'm 60. So ... when I was growing up it truly was a different era, atmosphere, than it is now. And, this isn't just about my being Gay! It's also about "The Public" thinking they had a "Right" to JUDGE me (and everyone else). Oh, Look! Chaz was SMOKING Cigarettes! Chaz was drinking Alcohol!! I heard Chaz SWEAR!!! Chaz wasn't dressed "Properly"!!!! Chaz was seen in a pool hall!!!!! Chas was Hitchhiking!!!!!!

Can you imagine what the "Buzz" would be if I got caught Skinny Dipping? Smoking Weed?? Let alone Sucking Dick????

So, yeah!, MY "rep" would reflect on my social standing, and my Family's "rep" as well, given the "business" they were in.

It didn't take much to stir up a "scandal", as small as it might be. Therefore, I was quite sensitive to "The Public's" impression of me, and would "automatically" avoid any "misconceptions" (unadulterated Truth)!

None of this was a reflection on "My" Kev, nor our relationship. It was a reaction to the snoopy Public, and it being None of their Damned business!!

I am, and have been, OUT to friends and immediate family, but only those that could be Trusted. As far as the General Public WAS concerned, and who knew when/where "They" might be, "They" were something to be guarded against.

I hope that's making some sense ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz