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Femmephobia in the gay community

I don't care what anyone else does, but I go out of my way to put forward a masculine, rough appearance, because it means nobody is going to mess with me. Who do you think is going to be attacked first, the thin guy with the pink braids, or the one who looks like he came off an oil rig. I've found that exploiting other people's fear is a great self defense mechanism. People are much less likely to physically and verbally assault someone who looks like they can and will hurt them.
 
I'd classify myself as bi, rather than gay, but my boyfriend (or the guy I've been seeing) is very, very effeminate, and I am masculine. I have nothing against fem guys, and he's an excellent lover.
 
I want to ask a serious question, not trying to ruffle feathers or be offensive, but what do we all mean when we use terms like fem or femminine, fem acting, or femminine characteristics????
I see guys with femminine characteristics as just that,effeminant guys, it's not a big deal.
But if I was to discribe a "fem", it's someone who is loud, abnoxious, you know the rest.
So my "phobia" isn't an opposition to guys with femminine characteristics, it's a dislike (not hatetred or fear) of loud, obnoxious assholes who use "I'm Fem" as an excuse.
Is this just a matter of labels, semantics, or?
 
Ok...not sure if I should post this but...

This is a topic that's close to my heart. Like a lot of gay men I have some traits that are effeminate. My voice for one. Despite years of speech classes inflicted on me by well meaning people...My voice still sounds they way it sounds, I still have my lisp. (By the way, having a lisp has nothing to do with being gay...it has to do with the way the roof of your mouth is shaped.)

I read these tragic stories of these poor kids that decide that the only way out is to kill themselves. It breaks my heart. I cry for the life lost. The life never lived. Because if they could just make it through the pain they would find that life does get better. If only...If only they knew this...if only the world was a kinder place, the wouldn't have to be so strong. Because you see, takes a lot of courage to be a fem guy. Some of manage to do it, some don't. That's way I cry when I read about these kids. That could have been my short life story. It wasn't because I didn't the courage to take my own life.

Anyway, the point is...I really wish everyone just try and look at each person for what they have to offer. Look past the superficial. The differences that in the long run don't matter all. Just try and treat everyone the way you'd want to treated.

That's my lecture for tonight. I'm going to bed now, I'm very tried.
 
The Fly said:
I want to ask a serious question, not trying to ruffle feathers or be offensive, but what do we all mean when we use terms like fem or femminine, fem acting, or femminine characteristics????
I see guys with femminine characteristics as just that,effeminant guys, it's not a big deal.
But if I was to discribe a "fem", it's someone who is loud, abnoxious, you know the rest.
So my "phobia" isn't an opposition to guys with femminine characteristics, it's a dislike (not hatetred or fear) of loud, obnoxious assholes who use "I'm Fem" as an excuse.
Is this just a matter of labels, semantics, or?
Click to expand...

Well I raised that question on the previous page. Not everyone in the thread seems to mean the same thing when using those words.
 
Rolyo85 said:
- Then there are the ultra unpleasant activists who are so thirsty for breeder approval, that they are ready to cut anything out of themselves to fit with the heteronormative crowd. To them everything that the straights don't like is undesirable, and what's more anti-heteronormative than a guy acting "like a girl"?
Click to expand...

Worse yet, people who fall into this group tend to follow a line of thinking that goes something like this, "Shit, they almost approve of us, but not quite. Quick, let's drop the T from LGBT! Sorry T's, throwing you under the bus so I can get what I want!"
 
Why do some gay guys hate feminine guys? Big question. Most of the reasons have been addressed already: internalised homophobia, a rabid desire for 'normalisation', and good old fashioned hatred of something different.

I do think a big part of it, though, is this gender-role stuff. It's no longer acceptable to express gender-role assumptions about women. It's not acceptable to say "you should let your husband decide everything" or "You shouldn't be working, you should be at home looking after the kids". Some guys still say it, sure, but it's a dying attitude, and one we're conscious of. That said, i think we still fail to question gender-roles when they're applied to men. No one blinks when we're given the tall, square jawed, muscled ideal of what a man should look like. No one cries 'sexism!' when someone mentions 'Real men' and then lists a series of attributes they should have like aggression and dominance.

I think there's a real burden on men to conform to this stupid ideal. Even some queer men suffer from it, and i think it's one of the causes of this in-group discrimination. Some guys who are gay or bi, still buy into the gender-role assumptions. They only top, because it's manly. They work out, because it's manly. They beat people up because it's manly. They openly express disgust for women, because sexism is manly. Seriously i've had gay guys respond to me mentioning women, with "eww, vagina?", followed by a rant about how gross women are. It's offensive to women, and to men, including this bisexual guy who felt kind of like I was being made to feel less 'queer' than all the 'pure gays'. i'm looking at you, dude from 'The New Normal'...

These assumptions are more than just irrational: they're dangerous. They feed sexism. They place a burden on men to conform and thus may feed homophobia, misogyny, low self esteem, poor body image, self loathing, isolation, suicide, and discrimination. When we accept that we should change our looks or behaviour, we're making our own lives harder. When we allow or encourage this kind of attitude in magazines, television, movies, on forums, in conversation etc, we're making everybody's life harder.

As rolyo85 said: being queer, we should know better, and accept people for who they are. That doesn't mean we should love everyone. I don't. Some people irritate me, and i'm sure i irritate them. But at the end of the day, we are who we are, and we're all different, and that's just dandy.

And before we spout off about looks or behaviour or labels, I think we need to ask ourselves: am i expressing who i am and what i like, or am i feeding an atmosphere where people feel compelled to conform to an ideal? Because there's a difference between "I like muscled guys who are dominant" and "I like REAL MEN!" The first is an objective truth, the second is a pure expression of the fantasy in your head that could stoke insecurity and self loathing in others. And believe it or not, it's not just "the offended party's problem". We actually have responsibilites to one another, first as human beings, and secondly as members of minority communities who often struggle just to accept ourselves.

I'm going to end by admitting that i bought into all this when i was younger. 'Queens' irritated me with their bitchiness, and they reminded me of how straight people see me, so i often bad mouthed feminine guys. Now i'm 28 and I know to seperate the personalities that irritate me, from the person's identity. So to everyone who has endured that crap in their lives: I'm sorry.

Thus endeth my rant on the subject, lol.
 
Oh and one last thing: i like 'femme' guys the same as any other kind of guy. If a guy is facially my type, then i'll find him attractive. If a guy is interesting, clever, and nice, then i'll like him. It doesnt matter if the guy is traditionally masculine or feminine. A cute, interesting guy who wears eyeliner, or a dress, or is soft spoken, is just as hot to me as a cute, interesting guy in jeans with a deep voice and stubble.
 
MindBlast said:
Worse yet, people who fall into this group tend to follow a line of thinking that goes something like this, "Shit, they almost approve of us, but not quite. Quick, let's drop the T from LGBT! Sorry T's, throwing you under the bus so I can get what I want!"
Click to expand...

Well, while what you describe is s a nasty reason, I sort of also don't think the Ts should be part of the LGBTs. And not because they don't deserve equal treatment - god knows they need it even worse than we do - but simply because I fail to see sufficient connection between sexuality and gender identity, so I think the two should be separate, same as sexuality and women's rights are, or racism and xenophobia (perhaps a more accurate example). But this is off-topic of course.
 
Rolyo85 said:
What kind of idiotic bullshit is that? First of all, yes, it's documented. Second, not transsexuals, but drag queens - a world of difference. Third, there is NOTHING in common between either drag queens and femme boys, OR transsexuals and femme boys.

Seriously, why are you on a gay forum, Pat?
Click to expand...

It is a question many have been asking since December 2010.
 
Although I am masculine, I've learned to ignore guys whom are femininophobic or femmephobic. They are some of the silliest people I've encountered in my life. They will justify their idiocy on some of the most pathetic antidotes. It's like watching a dog lick and bite at an open wound, instead of leaving well enough alone they keep "picking at it"...
 
[STRIKE]Femme[/STRIKE]phobia in the [STRIKE]gay[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]community
[/STRIKE]

1st worlds ways make ans keep create

rest classfied

thankyou
 
To me the guys who want to be femine are a turn-on, but the guys wo are half and half I can do without.
 
That guy in the"Stargate" movie with the long hair is totally sexy, I love guys like that.
 
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