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Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Papal Infallibility is only in the areas of Faith and Morals, not in anything else. As for the decision being rigged...I think you'd have a hard time proving that one.

There are very few Dogmas that are in fact made in Ex-Cathedera. Once Dogmas are set in stone, they are not to be questioned.

Church Traditions as in the big "T" or the little 't"? The ones that are the big T's are unchangeable, and the little t's are changeable. Now tell me what Traditions of the Church are you talking about, ie; specify exactly which ones....that will make a lot of sense, and I can understand what is being spoken of...not so easy when spoken in general. Also tell me which Papal Bulls you are talking about specifically, not in general.

The rigging of the Council is something that was shown to me by an Augustinian and confirmed by a Jesuit -- and I figure if one of the "pope's shock troops" confirms it, it's no joke.

I don't know the bulls specifically, but they speak on the matter of not being required to violate one's conscience.

At any rate, I don't worry about it much, since any possibility of Rome's bishop speaking infallibly even as defined ended in 1054.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

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I love it! ..|


Though the whole "zombie Jesus" thing just puzzles me.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

^Rising from the dead... much like zombies are supposed to do... puzzles you?
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Heh -- I like it.

For accuracy, though, there should be a white wedge labeled "Leviticus? What's that?" :D

I'm glad some of them can actually identify the bible. We'll work on on specifics later.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Of course they can identify it -- it's the thing they pick up and wave at Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons who come to the door. :p
I guess I've been doing it wrong. I use a nail gun.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Damn you Kul and a couple more JUBbites above, posing themselves Carl Sagan's question and all that: you are forcing me to write an opuscule aren't you? :mad: :rolleyes:
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Damn you Kul and a couple more JUBbites above, posing themselves Carl Sagan's question and all that: you are forcing me to write an opuscule aren't you? :mad: :rolleyes:
Opuscule? YOu know, they have a cream for that.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

Opuscule? YOu know, they have a cream for that.

Since you are still around YOu should know that, too often, they just do not work for the plumper ones :cool: :mrgreen:
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

the idea that there were no scientific advances between the fall of the Roman Empire and the European Renaissance is a little silly... innovation is almost always cumulative and gradual.

some of the biggest advances during that time period came from highly religious Muslim nations in the middle east.

There were no such thing as 'muslim nations' during the middle ages, the nation-state is a modern invention. While it is true that after the fall of Rome scientific progress diffused from Islam to Christianity (a trend that would not be reversed until the Florentine Renaissance), none of the muslim lands were 'highly religious'. When Saladin left Jerusalem during the 3rd crusade, the focus of the Islamic world shifted from exultation of Allah to organizing the economic and political chaos left behind by the crusaders. The former crusading kingdoms of Antioch, Tripoli, Edessa, et al became a magnet for disaffected Christians and Muslims, who abandoned religious fundamentalism after centuries of bloodshed, favoring instead a return to the classical legacies of Rome, Greece, and Alexandria. Religion, during this time, was subverted in favor of science, a trend that led directly to the Islamic Golden Age (750 - 1300BC) and its advances in astronomy, medicine, trigonometry, and geometrical optics. The age of muslim enlightenment ended in the mid-13th century, when a rebirth of Islamic fundamentalism reacted against the intellectual elites by destroying libraries and madrasahs throughout the Middle East and North Africa, and plunged the muslim lands into their very own Dark Ages, which have arguably lasted until this day.

In the Christian West, the end of the Roman empire marked a return to tribalism, feudalism, and constant warfare, with religion often invoked as rallying cry against decadent excesses (and the scientific advances that made it possible). Philosophers and scientists were targeted as heretics, and either executed or exiled to the -then- more progressive Muslim East. For the roughly 1000 years of the Dark Ages, Europe 'forgot' the earth was round (something the ancients knew very well), practicing medicine was equivalent to witchcraft, alchemy (a precursor to modern chemistry) was branded as 'occultism', and the written works of Plato, Aristotle, Hero of Alexandria (who discovered steam power), Galen, and Ptolemy, once a cornerstone of civilization, passed into obscurity, and then into legend. It was only during the Italian Renaissance, which shifted the balance of power away from the Vatican into the hands of wealthy merchants, and so favored Humanism over Christianity, that science and philosophy rose again to prominence.

To highlight the idea that religion drove human civilization back into the cave, realize that almost all of the scientific 'discoveries' made between the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution had already been discovered by the ancient world. The idea of the atom, the engineering of vast interior spaces, machines that increased productivity, free market economies, and state investment in infrastructure all had their inception with the Greeks, the Romans, and the golden age of Alexandria. This means that as a direct consequence of the religious fanaticism of the Dark Ages, human civilization is about 1000 years behind where it ought to be. The collective loss of reason experienced during that time set us back quite a bit. It is probably true that, had classical advances in science been allowed to flourish from 476-1400BC, we would have colonies on Mars by now.

TL;DR: the world is a shittier place today because religion was allowed to reign unchecked for way too long.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

There were no such thing as 'muslim nations' during the middle ages, the nation-state is a modern invention. While it is true that after the fall of Rome scientific progress diffused from Islam to Christianity (a trend that would not be reversed until the Florentine Renaissance), none of the muslim lands were 'highly religious'. When Saladin left Jerusalem during the 3rd crusade, the focus of the Islamic world shifted from exultation of Allah to organizing the economic and political chaos left behind by the crusaders. The former crusading kingdoms of Antioch, Tripoli, Edessa, et al became a magnet for disaffected Christians and Muslims, who abandoned religious fundamentalism after centuries of bloodshed, favoring instead a return to the classical legacies of Rome, Greece, and Alexandria. Religion, during this time, was subverted in favor of science, a trend that led directly to the Islamic Golden Age (750 - 1300BC) and its advances in astronomy, medicine, trigonometry, and geometrical optics. The age of muslim enlightenment ended in the mid-13th century, when a rebirth of Islamic fundamentalism reacted against the intellectual elites by destroying libraries and madrasahs throughout the Middle East and North Africa, and plunged the muslim lands into their very own Dark Ages, which have arguably lasted until this day.

In the Christian West, the end of the Roman empire marked a return to tribalism, feudalism, and constant warfare, with religion often invoked as rallying cry against decadent excesses (and the scientific advances that made it possible). Philosophers and scientists were targeted as heretics, and either executed or exiled to the -then- more progressive Muslim East. For the roughly 1000 years of the Dark Ages, Europe 'forgot' the earth was round (something the ancients knew very well), practicing medicine was equivalent to witchcraft, alchemy (a precursor to modern chemistry) was branded as 'occultism', and the written works of Plato, Aristotle, Hero of Alexandria (who discovered steam power), Galen, and Ptolemy, once a cornerstone of civilization, passed into obscurity, and then into legend. It was only during the Italian Renaissance, which shifted the balance of power away from the Vatican into the hands of wealthy merchants, and so favored Humanism over Christianity, that science and philosophy rose again to prominence.

To highlight the idea that religion drove human civilization back into the cave, realize that almost all of the scientific 'discoveries' made between the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution had already been discovered by the ancient world. The idea of the atom, the engineering of vast interior spaces, machines that increased productivity, free market economies, and state investment in infrastructure all had their inception with the Greeks, the Romans, and the golden age of Alexandria. This means that as a direct consequence of the religious fanaticism of the Dark Ages, human civilization is about 1000 years behind where it ought to be. The collective loss of reason experienced during that time set us back quite a bit. It is probably true that, had classical advances in science been allowed to flourish from 476-1400BC, we would have colonies on Mars by now.

TL;DR: the world is a shittier place today because religion was allowed to reign unchecked for way too long.

In your account you are ignoring the impact, calling it "devastating" would be softening it, of the Mongol invasions, an impact not just on material life, but in the minds and the breaking in the continuity with the civilized heritage that had come from far older times than the Muslim era itself. Just think of the moralIST backlash right after WWII, during the neoVictorian 1950s, or the XIXth century (the "Victorian" era) after the Enlightenment and Napoleonic turmoil: had it not been for the parallel and sustained development of democracy and of science, and of technology to articulate both and made them prevail over Bible&fists, we would be living in a world featured in the wet dreams of the nuts who parasite our supposedly sinful system and society to strive to bring about a fairytale blessed era that didn't exist even in the Bible, less in the world that composed the Bible itself.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

I haven't heard that whole wall of text, but the highlighted jumped out at me as flatout untrue and characteristic of the renaissance revisionist view of the middle ages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth)

there was no "return" to the feudal state so much as it was an evolution from the Roman system (and it was probably as much a cause of the fall of the Roman Empire as it was a result from). wealthy senators and ex-military leaders sitting on giant farm estates stopped paying taxes and started raising their own armies as Western Roman soldiers retreated from Britain and Gaul... from there, it's a short hop till they start declaring themselves Kings.

Just like communist "democracies" were "an evolution" from liberal democracies.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

I haven't heard that whole wall of text, but the highlighted jumped out at me as flatout untrue and characteristic of the renaissance revisionist view of the middle ages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth)

there was no "return" to the feudal state so much as it was an evolution from the Roman system (and it was probably as much a cause of the fall of the Roman Empire as it was a result from). wealthy senators and ex-military leaders sitting on giant farm estates stopped paying taxes and started raising their own armies as Western Roman soldiers retreated from Britain and Gaul... from there, it's a short hop till they start declaring themselves Kings.

I think people might be confusing flat earth with earth-centred-solar-system.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

The "educated classes" never set the general tone of an era, especially in eras in which they are much farther severed from the rest of the population.
It's like saying that, today, since "educated people" do not doubt about the reality of evolution (in a general way, not even entering into darwinism and the "ape" controversy) as a driving force in nature and history, creationist views are irrelevant.

The mere presence of more or less "educated" or "enlightened" views doesn't account for its force; that is why it is not puzzling that the "cultured" Germany up to the 1920s ended up in the Nazi regime: simply because a Thomas Mann, a Magnus Hirschfeld or a Max Planck can not account for the general level of education of a whole country, and therefore have no determinant influence, when any, in the political and economical course or derive of that country.

Beliefs are about guts, not about reason, and beliefs, faith is what ultimately drives populations... even if those guts only send forth shit, it keeps the body alive and working.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

I haven't heard that whole wall of text, but the highlighted jumped out at me as flatout untrue and characteristic of the renaissance revisionist view of the middle ages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth)

there was no "return" to the feudal state so much as it was an evolution from the Roman system (and it was probably as much a cause of the fall of the Roman Empire as it was a result from). wealthy senators and ex-military leaders sitting on giant farm estates stopped paying taxes and started raising their own armies as Western Roman soldiers retreated from Britain and Gaul... from there, it's a short hop till they start declaring themselves Kings.

The Empire was already effectively feudal due to the patronage system: anyone who wanted rights and privileges protected had to have a patron, generally one of those wealthy senators, to speak on his behalf. So when the central authority went, the system in place was already basically feudal.

Institutions of learning also depended on patronage. So when the budgets of those wealthy senators were suddenly faced with the need for more than just token security forces, they went Republican: defense spending went up, and everything else got cut.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

I haven't heard that whole wall of text, but the highlighted jumped out at me as flatout untrue and characteristic of the renaissance revisionist view of the middle ages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth)

there was no "return" to the feudal state so much as it was an evolution from the Roman system (and it was probably as much a cause of the fall of the Roman Empire as it was a result from). wealthy senators and ex-military leaders sitting on giant farm estates stopped paying taxes and started raising their own armies as Western Roman soldiers retreated from Britain and Gaul... from there, it's a short hop till they start declaring themselves Kings.

While the small intellectual elite did in fact believe the Earth was a sphere (see Thomas Aquinas' writings on the subject), the majority of the population did not. The masses had no access to education, so all knowledge was limited to monasteries and did not extend to the average citizen of the Middle Ages. This was in stark contrast to the classical world, where education in all areas of human endeavor was a pre-requisite for any man who wished to enter public life.

Also, it's a little ridiculous to think feudalism 'evolved' out of the Roman system. The basic requirements for feudal states had been present in the West since the time of Pericles. The reason it never became a social current was because repressive tyrants were always checked by revolutions, and most importantly, because until the fall of Rome, all the citizens of a polis were more or less equal under the law. Among the many populist causes Caesar championed, for example, was the establishment of a legal system for addressing farmer's grievances against the optimates who owned the land. Granted, that was a more a political maneuver than a genuine act of justice, but it had the effect that no one 'landlord' could oppress peasants indefinitely without incurring the wrath of the Emperor (after all, revolts had the unwelcome effect of disturbing the flow of goods into state coffers, so preventing them was paramount).

By the way, the rise of kingdoms had nothing to do with the reason why the Dark Ages were 'dark'. Despotic rulers, if sufficiently atuned to public sentiment, usually managed to sustain economic and scientific progress throughout their domain (see Caesar, Augustus, Claudius, Marcus Aurelius, Trajan, Hadrian, Alexander, the Ptolemies, etc). It wasn't kings that plunged Europe in darkness, it was religious fanaticism. In fact, the only difference between the rulers of the middle ages and those of the ancient world, is that the latter paid only lip service to religious doctrine, while the former fully embraced it as a road to salvation (hence the Crusades). Nor is it true that the empire's fall led inevitably to social regression. Empires had come and gone since man first discovered agriculture, but never had there been such intellectual vacuums left in their wake.
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

While the small intellectual elite did in fact believe the Earth was a sphere (see Thomas Aquinas' writings on the subject), the majority of the population did not. The masses had no access to education, so all knowledge was limited to monasteries and did not extend to the average citizen of the Middle Ages. This was in stark contrast to the classical world, where education in all areas of human endeavor was a pre-requisite for any man who wished to enter public life.

I can imagine a "Far Side" style cartoon where a monk in a field radios ahead to a monastery that a couple of knights are on their way up . . . .
 
Re: Funny anti-religious Internet pics

By the way, the rise of kingdoms had nothing to do with the reason why the Dark Ages were 'dark'. Despotic rulers, if sufficiently atuned to public sentiment, usually managed to sustain economic and scientific progress throughout their domain (see Caesar, Augustus, Claudius, Marcus Aurelius, Trajan, Hadrian, Alexander, the Ptolemies, etc). It wasn't kings that plunged Europe in darkness, it was religious fanaticism. In fact, the only difference between the rulers of the middle ages and those of the ancient world, is that the latter paid only lip service to religious doctrine, while the former fully embraced it as a road to salvation (hence the Crusades). Nor is it true that the empire's fall led inevitably to social regression. Empires had come and gone since man first discovered agriculture, but never had there been such intellectual vacuums left in their wake.

There was no dark age in Europe after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

The Eastern Roman Empire continued to flourish (as, Byzantium) until its fall to Ottoman conquest in the 15th century.

The structure of the (Catholic) church through its monasteries provided schools, universities, welfare for the poor and hospitals that today would be provided by government whereas, the king collected taxes to pay for his court's comfort and to provide for an army and avoided interfering in matters administered by the church.

Likewise, in the Byzantine Empire the (Orthodox) church provided similar services that served the common good, leaving the emperor to focus on protecting the empire.

The great universities of Europe were originally established as religious institutions such as Oxford University, and Paris University. According to legend Oxford university was founded in 872 when Alfred the Great happened to meet monks there and had a scholarly debate that lasted several days. In reality it grew up in the 12th century when famous teachers began to lecture there and groups of students came to live and study in the town. The university was given a boost in 1167 when, for political reasons, the English king ordered all students in France to return home continuing their education at Oxford.
 
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