g0ys.org (Thoughts)

[hotdog1846]

Re: g0y?

Fascinating post, Ned. Thanks.

I posted earlier, in jest, that the movement must have been started by recently outed Evangelical preachers. Apparently I was right!

It sounds like an effort for gay Christian conservatives to "have their cake and eat it too" -- engage in homoerotic activities but not upset the promotion of the ideology of modern-day Christian conservatism of male superiority in the nuclear 1-man-1-woman family, and reject all other forms of social structure besides that definition of the nuclear family.

*Edit* I just went back and looked at Ned's cake. Funny!

And also have nobody find out about their homoerotic activities. And to not adopt a gay identity, which -- to Evangelicals -- is one of the most evil things a person can be. In conservative Evangelical circles, having homosexual urges is considered wrong but forgiveable, but adopting a "gay" social identity (i.e. just declaring yourself openly using the word "gay"), dating men openly, etc is considered one of the most evil, depraved things possible. To Christian conservatives, a "gay man" is sin personified.

So it's basically gay subculture, Christian conservative style. Y'know it had to happen -- there are too many Christian conservatives, and homosexuality too pervasive a part of humanity, for it not to.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: g0y?

heehee.. but it's nothing about self-hate.

hotdog, thanks for that.

OK.. I'm off to get coffee.

Naked.

with my BF, who's also naked.

And we're going to be having gay sex after.

nuthin' g0y about it.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

Again this would be an opinion of another person's outlook based on a rather prejudiced understanding, created out of antipathy towards religious conservatives.

To enable us to get a firm handle on Mike's understandings, it is also necessary for us not to project our own deeply felt prejudices towards those who do not share our more open perspectives. Does this sound familiar?

 

[chatolandia]

Re: g0y?

Just out of curiosity. Isn't the description of their behavior is that of a closeted homosexual? I mean, no one knows, they go to church, and do everything in hiding? Doesn't the Bible warns about doing things in hiding?

 

[hotdog1846]

Re: g0y?

I also note in Mike's profile that he describes himself as being Hispanic. Hispanics are by nature very conservative and this does impact on the way that many Hispanics view life. We Greeks are similar, in that we choose to be discreet enough to where our relationships matter much more than the labelling that normally convicts most of us into being something that fails to describe who we really are.

Aren't the two situations completely different, kallipolis?

My understanding of Hispanics is there is a HUGE social stigma on being gay, partly because of a large amount of machismo expected of men, and a persistent denigration of women and femininity. (Sorry if that offends anyone here who's Hispanic.)

My understanding of Greeks is they are relatively open-minded and don't place much stigma on being gay. They look past that. Even straight Greek men aren't afraid to walk arm-in-arm in public.

Am I wrong?

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

The Greek character is a lot more complex that appearances suggest. The Greek male is notoriously famous for being open to homosexual relationships. For the Greek male the word gay conjures up the thought of being less than masculine, or even feminine. In this respect we prefer to avoid discussing our complex sexual makeup.

The Hispanics that I have encountered in Spain or in London are as uncomplicated as the Greek, when the friends and family are at a distance.

 

[hotdog1846]

Re: g0y?

Thanks for the explanation, kallipolis.

Perhaps I'm noticing a regional difference between American Hispanics and European Hispanics, where the stigma on a gay identity is much stronger in American Hispanics than European Hispanics.

However, I'm noticing a similarity between Christian conservatives, Hispanics (American and European), and Greeks -- the promotion of masculinity over femininity, hence a stigma against males that are too feminine -- which is, in truth, present to some degree in most cultures, as I understand.

 

[J-23]

Re: g0y?

We've all gone through the "I like guys... But I'm not gay" phase. You know... "I don't look like RuPaul, therefore it's impossible for me to fall under the category of gay."

You'll grow out of it.

 

[sb]

Re: g0y?

when I go to gay bars etc I always see hiv/aids awareness posters, free condoms and lube.... I have never ever seen anything promoting barebacking.
So what if some gay men have a lot of sexual partners... a whole heap of straight men and women do also. People are allowed to do that if they want.
I can be a fucking bitch... that doesn't mean that other gay men are. My behaviour doesn't represent the gay community... and other people's behaviour doesn't represent me.
give me freaks, drag queens, recreational drug users, promiscious men, leather men etc... I would rather all of them before having to spend time with g0ys who are basically gutless pussies who should be fucking grateful that the freaks etc gave them everything they have today.
how can we get equality when we have faggots who think that gay men are inferior.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

Struggling to create Utopia is no mean feat and Mike's efforts should be applauded, even when some of us recognise that it will also entail him suffering much at the hands of those for whom he strives. Have'nt some of us been here, before. Or was that time, such a long time past?

 

[hotdog1846]

Re: g0y?

I appreciate efforts to understand my positions as much as I marvel at the hostility evident in those unwilling to accept views other than their own.

I contend that only time will determine who is right and concede that for the sake of my children and the next generations I hope that I am right. I pray there is a time when there is no coming out process, when one is free to love who they choose without explanation or artificial, archaic labels, when thee are no "gay" and "straight" bars and clubs but simply bars and clubs, when same sex and opposite sex couples attend the same churches with their families, are afforded the same rights, when we are all truly equal.

In the mean time, I would hope those fighting for the "gay" label and cite its inclusiveness can accept that with that label comes a large sexually perverse group of individuals deluded in the belief that true freedom is limited to sexual freedom; uninhibited, unhealthy sexual practices ranging from rimming to glory holes to barebacking.

The one thing I want to add to this admirable vision for the future is that the vision values femininity as much as masculinity, hence its female members as much as its male members, hence its transgendered/transsexual members as much as its male/female/heterosexual/homosexual members.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: g0y?

You think a world where gay men sneak around to have sex and police what kind of sex they have (ANAL IS FORBIDDEN) is a "Utopia?"

You need to read that book again.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

hotdog,

Yes, the issue can so often be narrowed down to perceptions of femininity, which would be rejected by most Greek males involved in a homosexual relationship.

From my own experiences it is clear that the Greek male can assume the passive role and yet still not accept that he is gay. Most of my longer terms partners have moved on into marriage and children. In each case they played the passive role, and were happy in the relationship. I maintain a discreet distance from these former partners, but nevertheless telephone them on their name days and at Christmas. In each case they are happy to receive my call.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

Utopia is also the outcome of all that we dream, will create a world where discrimination in all its forms will be a distant memory. This would also apply to all forms of discrimination, between homosexual persons.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: g0y?

In the mean time, I would hope those fighting for the "gay" label and cite its inclusiveness can accept that with that label comes a large sexually perverse group of individuals deluded in the belief that true freedom is limited to sexual freedom; uninhibited, unhealthy sexual practices ranging from rimming to glory holes to barebacking.

And I would hope that those with their heads up their tushies who still insist that "gay" is a label and compare it to "Uninhibited sex" that they find distasteful would accept that "g0y" people are all having sex that someone else finds just as distasteful and no amount of trying to place yourselves above anyone else is going to make a difference to the people they're trying to impress.

"gay" does not equal "rimming" anymore than it equals motor oil, although I see alot more motor oil than rimming in my little gay world.


Funny, though.

There are plenty of straight people who partake in rimming, sex clubs, swingers clubs, fisting, water sports, bondage, promuscuity, beatiality and even fornicating on SUNDAY, but I've never heard of the "Str0ight" movement. I guess there are straight people who just kinda accept that there are people who are different that don't reflect on who they are.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: g0y?

a world where discrimination in all its forms will be a distant memory.

And a good way to acheive that is to say "GAy people are all sexual perverts who lick eachother's asses and dress in drag and suck dick through glory holes" and then invent words to separate ourselves from those people who DESERVE to be discriminated against.

 

[J-23]

Re: g0y?

In the mean time, I would hope those fighting for the "gay" label and cite its inclusiveness can accept that with that label comes a large sexually perverse group of individuals deluded in the belief that true freedom is limited to sexual freedom; uninhibited, unhealthy sexual practices ranging from rimming to glory holes to barebacking.

Oops. How silly of me. I completely forgot that there are no heterosexual people who engage in unhealthy sexual practices. I mean, the idea of a straight man hiring a female prostitute to have sex with him? Preposterous! A man and a woman who have just met at a party... having unprotected sex without first discussing their sexual history? That's certainly never happened! And everyone knows that straight couples only have vaginal intercourse. They never participate in the more unsavory varieties of sex.

...

You really need to get over it. No matter what you are, you're going to have a negative stigma attached to you. From a brief glance at your profile, I see that you're American. That means that the rest of the world views you as greedy, uncultured and ignorant. Better start calling yourself Am0rican. I also see that you're Hispanic. Unless you want everyone to know that you're a lazy illegal immigrant, I'd recommend that you begin identifying yourself as Hisp0nic. To add to all of this, going by your username, you shop at Hollister. Obviously, you're a spoiled, elitist, stuck-up preppie. You really ought to wear a plain white cotton T-shirt and plain white pants. This way, no one will pass any judgements on you based upon your style of dress.

Isn't it fun to eliminate stereotypes your way?

 

[kallipolis]

Re: g0y?

Jasun,

Sometimes our choice of words can expose us for being less than appreciative of the rights of our fellow human to be who they are. We can appear judgemental. I plead guilty to this charge. Have you been less than perfect, in this regard?

 

[J-23]

Re: g0y?

Personal attacks are par for the course, I guess. I can take it, but I will not stoop to your level.

By the way, at no point have I supported the "g0y" label anymore than the "gay."

So you're funny comments about my ethnicity and username are lost on me.

No one is attacking you and the comments aren't meant to be funny. I'm just showing you that people are going to pass judgement on you whether you like it or not. You can either be a coward and ask not to be associated with gay people, Americans, Latinos, etc., or you can take a stand a prove the stereotypes and prejudices wrong.

 

[-live-]

Re: g0y?

my point of view is g0ys just a way of syaing your not part of the sterotype that some people see being gay as. there isnt any harm in it at all.