Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands

[DJ1990]

It is just me or does Arabic sound like somebody is spitting?

 

[winterknight]

I will quote Rumi at anyone I think needs to hear it, including Muslims.

 

[Corny]

Corny doesn't seem to see this.

um hello? I'm an atheist. I do respect religion and religious people though.
I see that religion can do good, and I see that they also do great harm. But I don't hate all people of a faith for the actions of a few- that's what you do.

But I think it unfair to demonize Christianity, while giving Islam a free pass—which you did, whether or not you will admit it.

And that is very insulting. I am very critical about almost any religion, I don't give anyone who does harm in the name of any god a "free pass".

But I am also very critical with haters and call them out on it, and just because it's a religion that the uneducated label as in general violent and bad without any qualms doesn't mean I will back off.

A climate of fear, prejudice and hate only leads to things like this:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_..._muslim_teen_beaten_mocked_by_classmates.html

And that's why I am very pissed with people spreading those sentiments.

 

[Corny]

The trouble is that we don't get any exposure to "sane Islam", if you know what I mean. We only see the nutty side of it.

well that is how scare-mongering works. and that's why it is so important to educate yourself from different sources.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I will quote Rumi at anyone I think needs to hear it, including Muslims.

Wait a second, weren't the people who demanded the punishment of Gillian Gibbons also 'peace-loving' Sufis?

And now that I think of it, didn't an Ottoman Sultan ban the Mevlana sect from Istanbul because they were too orthodox for his tastes?

 

[Corny]

In your case, you probably don't have any exposure to liberal Christians, so maybe you think most Christians are a bunch of nuts.

What THE FUCK .. are you talking about? I never said anything like that, nor did I ever deny that the majority of christians are good people.
I have seen more liberal christians in my life than nutjobs, as I have seen more liberal muslims in my life than I have seen nutjobs.
No matter which religion, most people can live in peace with each other. I am holding both to the same standard - unlike you do according to your arguing here.

One thing we can agree on: we both hate seeing people victimized. I can tell this by "reading between the lines" of your posts.

so why do you victimize basically every muslim for the deeds of a few?

 

[Corny]

you still didn't learn a thing.

i rest my case.

 

[fetaby]

It's not so much the People, as the Religion, itself.

When I think of the word Islam, the picture of Turbans, unshaved faces, the Koran, and women dressed in burkas come to mind—not crazed-eyed terrorists.

I can't get that picture of Muslim women, wearing head-to-toe black burkhas in 100 degree weather, out of my mind, Corny.

It's nothing less than torture.

Those are the victims I see.

http://www.mwnuk.co.uk/news.php?id=21

 

[french]

Europe, due to their immigrants, will probably see a lot more homophobia than it has experienced in the recent past. Dare I say, the "Golden Age" for us is coming to an end in Europe.

And maybe here in Canada too, because we allow in a lot of immigrants from homophobic nations.

But America.... I see a bright future for you guys, because American immigrants are primarily from Latin America, which is beginning to see a rise in gay rights and attitudes toward homosexuality are changing.

But I don't blame Islam... Islam doesn't tell anyone to go up to someone and beat them up. Nor does it tell them to harass others. Rather, it is just the actions of a few extremists that make it miserable for everyone else.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Back to topic.

 

[Telstra]

Europe, due to their immigrants, will probably see a lot more homophobia than it has experienced in the recent past. Dare I say, the "Golden Age" for us is coming to an end in Europe.

And maybe here in Canada too, because we allow in a lot of immigrants from homophobic nations.

But America.... I see a bright future for you guys, because American immigrants are primarily from Latin America, which is beginning to see a rise in gay rights and attitudes toward homosexuality are changing.

But I don't blame Islam... Islam doesn't tell anyone to go up to someone and beat them up. Nor does it tell them to harass others. Rather, it is just the actions of a few extremists that make it miserable for everyone else.

blame on Saudi culture cover faces from desert wind then became cover everything up no matter the weather conditions

And why do dumb humans copy the culture without thinking.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

But I don't blame Islam... Islam doesn't tell anyone to go up to someone and beat them up. Nor does it tell them to harass others.

Actually, it does.

 

[Corny]

Back to topic.

yes, I wonder why those gay bashers love the netherlands .. oh wait .. i don't!

dutch bible belt

 

[french]

I don't know about that one, French.

Latin-Americans, in my experience, are quite homophobic. Gawd, if I had one dollar for each time I've been called "maricon" or "joto", I'd surely be a rich man by now.

I hope you're right.

Maybe the younger ones will bring a new experience.

When I lived in the USA, I lived in a Hispanic-majority area, and I did just fine! but then again, unless someones sees my personality, they wouldn't be able to tell I'm gay right away so maybe that is why.

blame on Saudi culture cover faces from desert wind then became cover everything up no matter the weather conditions

And why do dumb humans copy the culture without thinking.

You hold the same mentality as homophobes, but for a different reason.

The whole reason Muslims wear hijab is for modesty.

Also, as an undergrad Sociology major, I once did a survey on 75 Muslim women, and 73 of them liked wearing the hijab! So, let's not bash them if it's what they want.

Actually, it does.

Show me Quran/Hadith/Tafsir where it says to beat up a gay person in the streets. I challenge you to find even one Islamic scholar who says it is permissible to beat up homosexuals on the streets!

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

yes, I wonder why those gay bashers love the netherlands .. oh wait .. i don't!

dutch bible belt

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I'm sure you know where Amsterdam is. It's nowhere near the purple areas.

I guess you must be accusing Dutch Christians of things they haven't participated in just to feel better about those wretched Muslims.

Remember, I live in Amsterdam.

 

[Corny]

I didn't say that it happened in the area. I'm just saying that they are not the only homophobes in the country.
It needs a certain climate in a society so that things like that can thrive.

 

[french]

Just for some clarity on the Islamic position on homosexuality...

It is true that they deem it sinful, and it is true than in an Islamic country, under Sharia law, the punishment can be death.

But, we have to take several implications into consideration...

1. Muslims have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to privacy. What someone does behind closed doors in their own homes is no one else's business. Even during the time of Muhammad, Ibn Uthymeen seen some girls dancing and drinking alcohol in front of a guy. This is considered sinful in Islam, and a punishment with a minimal of lashing, due to intoxication. Yet, Ibn Uthymeen was unable to do anything about it because they had done it in the privacy of their own homes!

So homosexuality is completely okay if done in the privacy of one's home... It just can't be publicized.

2. It is unlawful for Muslims to randomly take "justice" in their own hands. It is the state's obligation to do so. Therefore, any Muslim who is beating up homosexuals on the streets would actually be considered a sinner.

Islam is nowhere near a gay-friendly religion. But, it also values privacy and Muslims have an obligation to not make assumptions. If the whole world became Muslim today, and an Islamic state were created, we wouldn't be able to hold hands and be public about our homosexuality. But, if we had a lover and confined the fact that they were our lover, and we did all our acts in privacy(as anyone does now, anyways) then we would be okay!

Historically speaking, Islam has a far better record on treatment of homosexuality than Christianity. It's just hard to see this and realize this in light of the fact that most Muslims are very homophobic. Islam is vehemently against homosexuality, but also vehemently against invasion of privacy rights and intermingling with personal affairs done behind closed doors. It would be like having the USA military policy "don't ask, don't tell", but having it as an entire cultural implication, not just for military! Sure, it is against our values, and sure, it isn't something we are used to... But, it isn't dreadfully horrible. It just creates an underground lifestyle that is a bit... Weird for us and our culture!

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I didn't say that it happened in the area. I'm just saying that they are not the only homophobes in the country.

There's very little gaybashing in those places. 2009 in Amsterdam recorded 371 anti-gay related incidents. Remember, Amsterdam is not that big.
That's probably more than all the bigger cities in the purple area put together.

It needs a certain climate in a society so that things like that can thrive.

You are swapping around cause and effect.

The current climate was created because of the 9-11, 7-7, Atocha trainstation, the cartoon riots, the teddybear controversy, the El Moumni controversy, the murder of Theo van Gogh, the announced murder of Ayaan Hirshi Ali and Geert Wilders, the 'Hofstadgroep', the banning of the play of 'Aischa', the sexual molestation of girls by Moroccan teenagers in public swimming pools, etc.

The people are very angry about everything they had to forgo because of all the Islam-related problems, and it's getting to get a lot worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better.

 

[Telstra]

When I lived in the USA, I lived in a Hispanic-majority area, and I did just fine! but then again, unless someones sees my personality, they wouldn't be able to tell I'm gay right away so maybe that is why.


You hold the same mentality as homophobes, but for a different reason.

The whole reason Muslims wear hijab is for modesty.

Also, as an undergrad Sociology major, I once did a survey on 75 Muslim women, and 73 of them liked wearing the hijab! So, let's not bash them if it's what they want.




Show me Quran/Hadith/Tafsir where it says to beat up a gay person in the streets. I challenge you to find even one Islamic scholar who says it is permissible to beat up homosexuals on the streets!

the same mentality ? no way no way
modesty yes but it is still a culture thing.

so before the cloth was invented, what do they cover their face with? animal skins ?

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Harke, would you be kind enough to summarize the video in English for us?

A man who has been to a shop named "Gays and Gadgets" says goodbye to his friends, and is then told too "Bugger off!" off-screen, by two passing streetpersons.
They argue and he calls the police. They attack.