Gay Conversion Therapists Claim Most Patients Fully Straight By The Time They Commit Suicide

[peeonme]

I can't, but I'm not so quick to give up the right to choose.

What the hell are you smoking? If you can't, then you don't have the right, you are what you are.

 

[zombiekiller]

What the hell are you smoking? If you can't, then you don't have the right, you are what you are.

What I'm saying is there's always the possibility that there are people who chose to be gay or straight. Who they decide to sleep with has nothing to do with me. It is morally neutral. It shouldn't matter if it's a choice or not.

 

[peeonme]

What I'm saying is there's always the possibility that there are people who chose to be gay or straight. Who they decide to sleep with has nothing to do with me. It is morally neutral. It shouldn't matter if it's a choice or not.

Who one sleeps with has no bearing on a choice of what gender they are attracted to. One who like guys can sleep with a girl, I have done this, he can have sex with that girl. At the end of the day he is a gay man who decided to have straight sex.

 

[zombiekiller]

I guess what I'm trying to say in too many words is we shouldn't only be concern with what affects us directly. I may be gay in that I'm attracted to guys a lot more than girls, whether being gay can be a choice or not should have no bearing on what rights people should have.

When we get into a debate with fundies on whether it is a choice or not, we lose sight of the fact that being gay or not or choosing to be gay or not is morally neutral. It shouldn't be a debate topic at all.

Whether I chose to be gay or not should have no bearing on what rights I should or shouldn't have. I like guys now. I reserve the right to switch side later.

 

[mikey3000]

Who one sleeps with has no bearing on a choice of what gender they are attracted to. One who like guys can sleep with a girl, I have done this, he can have sex with that girl. At the end of the day he is a gay man who decided to have straight sex.

And that is his CHOICE! just as it is yours to never act on your passions, or for me to act on mine. We all have that choice. Gay or straight, i will never let another individual, dictate my choices to me.

 

[MrPerfectMan]

Actually, we should never get into the debate of whether it is a choice or not. Even if it is a choice, it's none of their business.

The problem with getting into the debate with fundies on whether it is a choice or not is there are many things we perceive to not being a choice but actually hurt others. Pedophilia is an example.

Say I am a straight guy who decided to be gay. Why does that matter?

Straight people think being gay is a choice, but they never talk about how irresistibly attracted they are to their opposite sex spouse, as if they could just turn that off. Also, they act like sex for them is super holy and pure. They'd almost have you believe all they do is cuddle and hold hands to get pregnant. Also, conception is only possible a few days a month, you can't tell me these holy straight couples aren't getting hot and heavy under the sheets any other day of the month! I'd like to see the stereotypical homophobe couple's reaction to this point...

I went out last week with a guy and sat a foot away from a couple that kept gawking at us the whole time, shaking their head at us as we walked in. Then later on in the night the bf sensually put his foot up in her lap and rubbed it against her leg. I imagine they're the type that bang each other every night, but it's such an act of purity for them!

Ok, rant done.

 

[zombiekiller]

And that is his CHOICE! just as it is yours to never act on your passions, or for me to act on mine. We all have that choice. Gay or straight, i will never let another individual, dictate my choices to me.

Thank you. You worded it better than I did.

By getting into the argument about whether it is a choice or not with fundies, we inadvertently agree with them that if it is a choice then having sex with another man is somehow wrong.

If a fundy wants to get into a debate with you (not you specifically, just you in general) about whether being gay is a choice or not, just say it doesn't matter if it's a gay or not. So what if it's a choice to be gay? It should not matter at all.

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Straight people think being gay is a choice, but they never talk about how irresistibly attracted they are to their opposite sex spouse, as if they could just turn that off. Also, they act like sex for them is super holy and pure. They'd almost have you believe all they do is cuddle and hold hands to get pregnant. Also, conception is only possible a few days a month, you can't tell me these holy straight couples aren't getting hot and heavy under the sheets any other day of the month! I'd like to see the stereotypical homophobe couple's reaction to this point...

I went out last week with a guy and sat a foot away from a couple that kept gawking at us the whole time, shaking their head at us as we walked in. Then later on in the night the bf sensually put his foot up in her lap and rubbed it against her leg. I imagine they're the type that bang each other every night, but it's such an act of purity for them!

Ok, rant done.

Funny. My boyfriend and I get looks with disgusts all the time, too, when we go out.

 

[peeonme]

And that is his CHOICE! just as it is yours to never act on your passions, or for me to act on mine. We all have that choice. Gay or straight, i will never let another individual, dictate my choices to me.

Let me try this one last time, of course it is a person's choice as to whom they fuck. I can fuck a hole in my mattress, I guess I have fucked my fist many times. I have fucked guys and girls. All by choice.
At the end of all of this "by choice" fucking, I am still a gay man, not by choice, but by birth. I can fuck a female, sometimes it was easy, other times I had to imagine I was with a guy to stay hard or have an orgasm.
When I fucked guys, it was always hot and I had no problem with staying hard or reaching an orgasm.
This to me spoke loud and clear about my sexuality. I am gay. Tried to change it and couldn't. I have never met any one who has.

You can fuck a porcupine by choice, I guess.

 

[zombiekiller]

Let me try this one last time, of course it is a person's choice as to whom they fuck. I can fuck a hole in my mattress, I guess I have fucked my fist many times. I have fucked guys and girls. All by choice.
At the end of all of this "by choice" fucking, I am still a gay man, not by choice, but by birth. I can fuck a female, sometimes it was easy, other times I had to imagine I was with a guy to stay hard or have an orgasm.
When I fucked guys, it was always hot and I had no problem with staying hard or reaching an orgasm.
This to me spoke loud and clear about my sexuality. I am gay. Tried to change it and couldn't. I have never met any one who has.

You can fuck a porcupine by choice, I guess.

And let me repeat one more time. By getting into a debate with a fundy whether being gay is a choice or not, whether you like it or not you are agreeing with them that it does matter in regards to what rights a ought to have depending on their choice.

Or are you saying that we should not have the same rights IF being gay is a choice after all?

 

[peeonme]

And let me repeat one more time. By getting into a debate with a fundy whether being gay is a choice or not, whether you like it or not you are agreeing with them that it does matter in regards to what rights a ought to have depending on their choice.

Or are you saying that we should not have the same rights IF being gay is a choice after all?

I am not debating fundies, I am debating gay men on a gay forum who seem to think that their sexuality was a choice.
There is no IF in the matter, being gay is not a choice.
If you can't get this in to your head, then maybe you would make a good fundy.

 

[zombiekiller]

I am not debating fundies, I am debating gay men on a gay forum who seem to think that their sexuality was a choice.
There is no IF in the matter, being gay is not a choice.
If you can't get this in to your head, then maybe you would make a good fundy.

I see.

Well, believe what you want to believe. On a personal level, I'm convinced I can change. I just haven't been motivated enough to try LOL.

 

[MrPerfectMan]

I see.

Well, believe what you want to believe. On a personal level, I'm convinced I can change. I just haven't been motivated enough to try LOL.

I kind of see what you mean. I don't think it's impossible to change, but I don't think most people should try. Though my very secular university talked about one successful study where it was done, but I don't feel like citing it here. The point remains, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[mikey3000]

I am not debating fundies, I am debating gay men on a gay forum who seem to think that their sexuality was a choice.
There is no IF in the matter, being gay is not a choice.
If you can't get this in to your head, then maybe you would make a good fundy.

Maybe for some it's a choice, others it isn't. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Didn't you just say that you have slept with women? Aren't you still married to one?

 

[peeonme]

Maybe for some it's a choice, others it isn't. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Didn't you just say that you have slept with women? Aren't you still married to one?

I also said that after all of the straight sex that I was still gay. At one time I thought that I could change because I had been taught as a boy that homosexuality was learned behavior, a sin that one falls in to.
It took me another 40 years to admit to myself that I was as queer as a 3 dollar bill.
If some can change, it's news to me. All I have ever heard from this forum and others like it is that being gay is not a choice.
I believe that no one chooses their sexuality, they choose their activities.
If you can change go for it, you also are married to a woman, aren't you?

 

[mikey3000]

Yup I am. My sexuality has changed. I never had a sexual interest in men till my mid thirties. And when I found myself sexually attracted to men, I set out to understand why. I kept her abreast of my findings and we talked (and fought) it out. We reached an agreement that satisfied both if us and she helped select my bf. Now, after several years, we have all agreed, they both have joint custody of...me! Our situation is not for everyone, not many could handle it, but it works great for us. He adores me and my family, and we all adore him.

 

[peeonme]

Yup I am. My sexuality has changed. I never had a sexual interest in men till my mid thirties. And when I found myself sexually attracted to men, I set out to understand why. I kept her abreast of my findings and we talked (and fought) it out. We reached an agreement that satisfied both if us and she helped select my bf. Now, after several years, we have all agreed, they both have joint custody of...me! �� Our situation is not for everyone, not many could handle it, but it works great for us. He adores me and my family, and we all adore him.

I am glad that it has worked out so well for you, do you recall a precise moment when you made the choice to be attracted to men?

 

[mikey3000]

Actually it wasn't so much of "attraction" as "hmm, why am I so miserable and lonely?" Yes, i remember it well. I was craving male affection.

 

[zombiekiller]

Yup I am. My sexuality has changed. I never had a sexual interest in men till my mid thirties. And when I found myself sexually attracted to men, I set out to understand why. I kept her abreast of my findings and we talked (and fought) it out. We reached an agreement that satisfied both if us and she helped select my bf. Now, after several years, we have all agreed, they both have joint custody of...me! �� Our situation is not for everyone, not many could handle it, but it works great for us. He adores me and my family, and we all adore him.

You lucky bastard. My boyfriend won't let me have anyone else.

 

[justaguy]

I've actually posted numerous times already that I'm over gays going on and on and on about how they didn't choose to be gay.

But why? Many gay guys struggle with their sexuality, thinking it is abnormal and contrary to how they should be. For many, knowing that it is not something they 'choose' is comforting. They may be deeply religious, or conservative, or wanting to please their parents, or whatever the reason is for not wanting to be gay. They try their hardest not to be gay and are sometimes deeply unhappy. It never works. Admitting that it is not something they choose is often the final piece in the puzzle to acceptance, of yourself and from others.

So there are actually a whole bunch of people who 'GIVE A FUCK' about it.

 

[justaguy]

Yup I am. My sexuality has changed. I never had a sexual interest in men till my mid thirties. And when I found myself sexually attracted to men, I set out to understand why. I kept her abreast of my findings and we talked (and fought) it out. We reached an agreement that satisfied both if us and she helped select my bf. Now, after several years, we have all agreed, they both have joint custody of...me! �� Our situation is not for everyone, not many could handle it, but it works great for us. He adores me and my family, and we all adore him.

I think yours is an unusual experience Mikey. Most gay guys I talk to say they have had gay feelings since childhood, and in their heart always knew they were gay.