Gay Conversion Therapists Claim Most Patients Fully Straight By The Time They Commit Suicide

[justaguy]

Maybe for some it's a choice, others it isn't. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Didn't you just say that you have slept with women? Aren't you still married to one?

But gay guys can sleep with women just as a straight guy can sleep with a man. That doesn't define your sexuality. What defines it is what goes on in your mind and your heart at the time

 

[peeonme]

Actually it wasn't so much of "attraction" as "hmm, why am I so miserable and lonely?" Yes, i remember it well. I was craving male affection.

Did you choose to crave male attention?

 

[justaguy]

I don't think it's impossible to change

I do. If you are truly gay, and not just bisexual.

 

[peeonme]

I do. If you are truly gay, and not just bisexual.

I am amazed, I can understand str8s thinking a gay can change, I have never heard it from gays or bi guys, a lot of us tried to change,
some died by their own hand as they were told it was a choice. I feel like I have gone back in time on this thread.

 

[justaguy]

I am amazed, I can understand str8s thinking a gay can change, I have never heard it from gays or bi guys, a lot of us tried to change,
some died by their own hand as they were told it was a choice. I feel like I have gone back in time on this thread.

I think you misread my post. I believe it is impossible for a truly and totally gay guy to change. I agree with you.

 

[peeonme]

I think you misread my post. I believe it is impossible for a truly and totally gay guy to change. I agree with you.

I am sorry, in my attempt to agree with you I seem to have come across as to the contrary, we are both on the same page.

 

[justaguy]

I am sorry, in my attempt to agree with you I seem to have come across as to the contrary, we are both on the same page.

Cool

 

[zombiekiller]

I am amazed, I can understand str8s thinking a gay can change, I have never heard it from gays or bi guys, a lot of us tried to change,
some died by their own hand as they were told it was a choice. I feel like I have gone back in time on this thread.

I'm perplexed by what I'm seeing. The point of our fight isn't and has never been to convince the christian right that we can never be changed. If you've been believing this, then you've been mislead. We want to have our choice, not their choice. We want people to know that human sexuality, regardless of which way they're leaning, is morally neutral. We want christian fundamentalists to butt out and stay out of our sex lives.

Think of what you're saying. On the one hand, I have christian fundies telling me I have to change to being straight. On the other hand, I have you telling me I absolutely cannot change. You both are just 2 sides of the same coin. You both want to take my choice away from me.

Let me repeat. Human sexuality is morally neutral. It's like taking a walk in the park. Not everything has to be morally right or wrong. Wanting to stay gay or to change is also morally neutral. It's the pushing, the taking advantage of people's religious belief, the manipulation to change people's sexuality that we should be fighting against.

Also, let me repeat. I don't know if I can change. I have not tried. At this point in my life, I've no inclination to change. I'm much too happy with my boyfriend to change. That said, if some point in the future I decide to want to change, there ought to be nothing wrong with that. What part of giving people free choice don't you understand?

 

[bankside]

I'm perplexed by what I'm seeing. The point of our fight isn't and has never been to convince the christian right that we can never be changed. If you've been believing this, then you've been mislead. We want to have our choice, not their choice. We want people to know that human sexuality, regardless of which way they're leaning, is morally neutral. We want christian fundamentalists to butt out and stay out of our sex lives.

Think of what you're saying. On the one hand, I have christian fundies telling me I have to change to being straight. On the other hand, I have you telling me I absolutely cannot change. You both are just 2 sides of the same coin. You both want to take my choice away from me.

Let me repeat. Human sexuality is morally neutral. It's like taking a walk in the park. Not everything has to be morally right or wrong. Wanting to stay gay or to change is also morally neutral. It's the pushing, the taking advantage of people's religious belief, the manipulation to change people's sexuality that we should be fighting against.

Also, let me repeat. I don't know if I can change. I have not tried. At this point in my life, I've no inclination to change. I'm much too happy with my boyfriend to change. That said, if some point in the future I decide to want to change, there ought to be nothing wrong with that. What part of giving people free choice don't you understand?

Well put!!

 

[justaguy]

On the other hand, I have you telling me I absolutely cannot change.

Yes, and peeonme is right. You absolutely can't change. If you are gay, you can choose a straight lifestyle if you want (unhappily), but you're still gay, because you are wired to be attracted to men. You have a choice of lifestyle, but not sexuality.

Let me repeat. Human sexuality is morally neutral. It's like taking a walk in the park.

I agree, but I don't think that's anything to do with the argument.

Not everything has to be morally right or wrong. Wanting to stay gay or to change is also morally neutral.

I believe you're confusing sexuality with lifestyle.

Also, let me repeat. I don't know if I can change. I have not tried. At this point in my life, I've no inclination to change. I'm much too happy with my boyfriend to change. That said, if some point in the future I decide to want to change, there ought to be nothing wrong with that. What part of giving people free choice don't you understand?

I think if you're gay, you just can't wake up one morning and say ... 'Right, from now on I shall be straight. I will not be attracted to men any longer, and instead will enjoy having sex with women more.'
That's the part of giving free choice to people I don't understand. Because your sexuality isn't a choice. Only your lifestyle can be a choice. But if you choose a straight lifestyle when you are sexually gay, then the chances are high you will be unhappy. I guess, if you are bisexual, then that's a different story because you can flipflop and choose a lifestyle and be sexually fulfilled regardless.

 

[zombiekiller]

Yes, and peeonme is right. You absolutely can't change. If you are gay, you can choose a straight lifestyle if you want (unhappily), but you're still gay, because you are wired to be attracted to men. You have a choice of lifestyle, but not sexuality.





I agree, but I don't think that's anything to do with the argument.



I believe you're confusing sexuality with lifestyle.



I think if you're gay, you just can't wake up one morning and say ... 'Right, from now on I shall be straight. I will not be attracted to men any longer, and instead will enjoy having sex with women more.'
That's the part of giving free choice to people I don't understand. Because your sexuality isn't a choice. Only your lifestyle can be a choice.

Never say never. I am confident that one day science will crack the code of human sexuality and changing who you are attracted to will be a matter of flipping a switch.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Never say never. I am confident that one day science will crack the code of human sexuality and changing who you are attracted to will be a matter of flipping a switch.

If it takes science to crack the code of human sexuality and changing who you are attracted to, then peeonme and justaguy are correct.

 

[justaguy]

Never say never. I am confident that one day science will crack the code of human sexuality and changing who you are attracted to will be a matter of flipping a switch.

Believe it or not, I understand where you are coming from in your argument. Presumably, if they find something, it would require some sort of gene manipulation. We just have to have faith that the decent side of the world would not let that happen, and also that people would not want to go through gene manipulation and mess with their bodies when there is no need to. At the end of the day, we're both for gay rights

 

[peeonme]

I'm perplexed by what I'm seeing. The point of our fight isn't and has never been to convince the christian right that we can never be changed. If you've been believing this, then you've been mislead. We want to have our choice, not their choice. We want people to know that human sexuality, regardless of which way they're leaning, is morally neutral. We want christian fundamentalists to butt out and stay out of our sex lives.

Think of what you're saying. On the one hand, I have christian fundies telling me I have to change to being straight. On the other hand, I have you telling me I absolutely cannot change. You both are just 2 sides of the same coin. You both want to take my choice away from me.

Let me repeat. Human sexuality is morally neutral. It's like taking a walk in the park. Not everything has to be morally right or wrong. Wanting to stay gay or to change is also morally neutral. It's the pushing, the taking advantage of people's religious belief, the manipulation to change people's sexuality that we should be fighting against.

Also, let me repeat. I don't know if I can change. I have not tried. At this point in my life, I've no inclination to change. I'm much too happy with my boyfriend to change. That said, if some point in the future I decide to want to change, there ought to be nothing wrong with that. What part of giving people free choice don't you understand?

This thread was based upon conversion therapy, my argument was that it did not work and that human sexuality was wired in at birth.
My posts had nothing to do with morality, it was about the fact that no one decides to be gay or straight.
If anyone has ever decided their sexuality, I would love to hear from them.

You say here that you don't know if you can change, fine.
Earlier in this thread you made this statement:

Well, believe what you want to believe. On a personal level, I'm convinced I can change. I just haven't been motivated enough to try LOL.

Well, which is it? In one post you are adamant and convinced, in another you don't know.
As usual with you, you can't get your story straight (or your sexuality).
You need not reply, I don't need to hear another story.

 

[kallipolis]

Human beings not only lie to others but to themselves..self deception, born out of fear of not wanting to live their life in freedom, to be who they are...

...I have met several married men, with children who chose to deny their homosexual self until, their forties when their children had grown into adults....when they chose to face their self imposed demons...and jump the deep end....

Whether ones homosexuality is nature, or nuture is beside the point for by 2

 

[kallipolis]

Human beings not only lie to others but to themselves..self deception, born out of fear of not wanting to live their life in freedom, to be who they are...

...I have met several married men, with children who chose to deny their homosexual self until, their forties when their children had grown into adults....when they chose to face their self imposed demons...and jump the deep end....

Whether ones homosexuality is nature, or nuture is beside the point for by 2

I'll complete this by adding that sexual orientation is never a choice whereas, sexual behaviour is always a choice.

Over the entrance to the temples of ancient Greece the following aphorism was always written in stone:

Know Thyself and Become What You Are

An invitation to live a happy, fulfilling, and healthy life.

 

[gsdx]

Actually, we should never get into the debate of whether it is a choice or not. Even if it is a choice, it's none of their business.

Don't tell me what "debate" I should or shouldn't get into. If a guy is gay he knows he never decided to be gay. The whole idea of conversion therapy is to return one to his "normal" sexuality. This implies the gay part of him was his choice and his "fault"

Indeed. Being gay is not a choice. Being a Christian is.

They don't seem to get that.

 

[peeonme]

Indeed. Being gay is not a choice. Being a Christian is.

They don't seem to get that.

I chose to be a Christian, I did not chose to be gay. I guess since I am a Christian that I am considered to be one of the "they",
but it would seem that we agree, so not all Christians should be lumped together.
Neither should some bigot try to discredit all of Christianity by focusing on some conman selling snake oil.

Zombie uses every thread that he can to either toot his horn about how good he has done, or, to attack Christians.

 

[zombiekiller]

LOL you guys crack me up.

 

[peeonme]

LOL you guys crack me up.

From reading your posts I would say that you were cracked up before this.
Are you still gay?