Gay Marriage Fails In New York

[metta]

NY State Senator Eric Adams

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCHkqVbN3jg[/ame]

You can thank him here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-York-State-Senator-Eric-Adams/80559174013?ref=ss



NY State Senator Diane Savino (clip in previous post above): http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-Diane-J-Savino/136884736636?ref=nf


NY State Senator Craig Johnson:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YfELI5n_LQ&feature=channel[/ame]

johnson@senate.state.ny.us

Website:http://www.senatorcraigjohnson.org/

NY State Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1criD7cMfs&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.nysenate.gov/senator/ruth-hassell-thompson

NY State Senator Jose M. Serrano
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHDk_gAUupM&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jose-Serrano/6652093062?v=wall&ref=search

Senator Tom Duane

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5AXg9R6HpQ&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.tomduane.com/

Senator Liz Krueger:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GmL1VKPpDg[/ame]
http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Y...888694?ref=search&sid=637239391.3254185146..1


Senator Velmanette Montgomery

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6idl3SBaoWE&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.facebook.com/NYStateSenatorVelmanetteMontgomery?ref=search&sid=637239391.1225871933..1

Senator Daniel Squadron:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcdg21xIYXU&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.nysenate.gov/senator/daniel-l-squadron


Senator Eric Schneiderman:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_oUaaicLas&feature=channel[/ame]

http://www.schneiderman.org/show.php?page=home

Senator Jeff klein:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_faxM8hEcK0&feature=channel[/ame]
http://www.nysenate.gov/senator/jeffrey-d-klein

​

 

[hotatlboi]

The fact that they are treated poorly is their fault in one way. They are not fighting hard enough for their rights by staying hidden in the closet. That is not to say it is solely on their shoulders but I cannot sit around and feel sorry for a gay person who is whining about how hard life is if they're not out, proud and fighting to make it better.

I am sorry, but I am really a hard ass when it comes to that. If you understood my situation you would know why laziness and excuses don't fly with me.

I'm sorry, but I just find telling gay people that it's their own fault people have irrational hatred toward them incredibly insulting.

 

[saymyname]

I'm sorry, but I just find telling gay people that it's their own fault people have irrational hatred toward them incredibly insulting.

It's obviously not their OWN fault, but the more people that come out, the more minds will change. The point is that they aren't doing anything to help the situation.

Anyways, this is bullshit and I'm pissed. But I won't get pessimistic. Conservatives are not the majority. And just because us queers are a minority does not mean that we don't have a lot of allies. We do. But this state by state bullshit will not work. It has to be taken to the supreme court, at a time when we have a 'liberal' president, and 'liberal' majority of every other branch.

 

[hotatlboi]

but the more people that come out, the more minds will change.

I agree with that, that part is not what I took issue with.

 

[Joshua_me]

I guess what I'm dealing with right now is just a feeling of being "tired".

It's really as simple as that.

I'm not 20 anymore, guys. I feel as if I've been fighting all of my adult life for something that's just so slow in coming that after awhile I find myself tempted to just give up.

What's the point, really ? It's like pushing some giant boulder up a hill that never ends...

The world is filled with narrow-minded, bigoted fucks. That's just the way it is.
What can any of us really do about it ?

Jasun, Stacy, Elvin... The three of you are amongst the people I respect the most on JUB, and I admire the spirit and the fire that each of you has on this issue. We've all been here a long time and we've all been at this a long time, but at the end of the day, what is really accomplished ?

We can't fight the world, we can't change it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "giving up the ghost", not giving up the fight, but maybe I've arrived at a point in my life where my realistic expectations have been modified.

A person can only get knocked down so many times before a royal case of the "fuck it's" start creeping in.

...Just the way I am feeling at the moment.

 

[StlKj]

The fact that they are treated poorly is their fault in one way. They are not fighting hard enough for their rights by staying hidden in the closet. That is not to say it is solely on their shoulders but I cannot sit around and feel sorry for a gay person who is whining about how hard life is if they're not out, proud and fighting to make it better.

I am sorry, but I am really a hard ass when it comes to that. If you understood my situation you would know why laziness and excuses don't fly with me.

I'm sorry, but fuck this noise. Those of you who are talking about closeted individuals as though they're just sitting back, being lazy and whiny need to get the fuck off your high horses. Many people in the closet are still confused about who they are, and they are living in fear of losing everything and everyone they love by risking being themselves. You can't ask people who don't love themselves to stand up and be proud of themselves--that and a fucking Hallmark card won't get them shit.

The coming out process doesn't just get passed over quickly because you want them to suddenly be confident and take on the fight. Would it be better if all gays and lesbians felt strong enough to stand up and come out together? Sure it would, but placing the blame on them for their conditioned fear, depression and/or self-loathing doesn't do shit except take the victims of hatred and show them no compassion at all.

 

[TickTockMan]

Anyways, this is bullshit and I'm pissed. But I won't get pessimistic. Conservatives are not the majority. And just because us queers are a minority does not mean that we don't have a lot of allies. We do. But this state by state bullshit will not work. It has to be taken to the supreme court, at a time when we have a 'liberal' president, and 'liberal' majority of every other branch.

In a couple of years it shall come to pass.

 

[StlKj]

Fuck it. Not worth it. Some of the shit I've read in this thread is no better than the shit those who would keep us down like to spew.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I never said that this entire American marriage equality fight is being defeated solely because some people are not ready to come out. I simply agreed that it is safe to say that it can be a contributor to people's bigotry.]

I was the one who said that.

I don't think that the ONLY reason that we don't have laws protecting us is that we're not all out.

but I think if we were all out, we'd have laws protecting us.

 

[StlKj]

And I wouldn't for one moment presume to tell someone in a wheel chair to suck it up and deal with it based on my personal experiences as a gay man.

Guess that's where we're different.

 

[hotatlboi]

I took on one point in the thread and continued to give my views on that topic. Meanwhile, I have been telling anyone that will listen how disgusted I am with Americans. How sick to my stomach it makes me that this is still happening in 2009. How absolutely confused I am that the gay community is seen as an offshoot and not part of the whole human race. I am gathering thoughts and trying to figure out ways to fight alongside this community in whatever way I can.

Do I want a medal? A pat on the back? No. But I'd appreciate not having my friends call me names based on one side of a large argument I chose to focus on.

It was not my intention to display any personal animosity. If you were offended, I apologize.

However...

I am not pointing fingers

I guess I kind of felt like you were. You're saying it's the gays fault they are hated, which is 100% bullshit. I can agree with your point that they could be more proactive in trying to change minds and combat the hate, but they are not the source of it, nor did they bring it on themselves, and I guess that's kind of what it felt like you were saying.

And that you know it's the right course of action for every 15 year old to just suck it up even if they are going to be kicked out of their house is just not an responsible thing to be suggesting imo. People do need to work proactively to combat the hate, but there are many people who are so mentally persecuted and confused (through no fault of their own) that they don't even know who they are, much less how they would begin to assert themselves toward others on this issue.

 

[hotatlboi]

I'm glad I had people in my life who got in my face and said "do not let this stop you from being whoever and whatever you want to be."

I agree, at some point everyone has to take charge of their life and stop living it just as others want, but what you have to understand is that because of the environments of hate many people are raised in, for many people this is something that psychologically it's going to take them a long time to accept. It isn't going to happen overnight.

 

[Piquechampion]

Mmm, metta you know I respect you and your unwavering commitment to the gay marriage fight, but

The post you made with all the speeches on youtube made my computar crash

Next time if someone is going to post such a heavy loaded post, please some warning

 

[StlKj]

Again, fuck it. Not worth it. I'm out of this thread.

 

[SilverWolf]

I'm not trying to speak for anybody and if I'm wrong correct me, I'm just trying to understand everyone.

What I think Stacy and others are saying (if I'm wrong correct me) is that those who can come out and say that they are gay with nothing but arguments and feelings hurt can make a big difference and are different than those who if discovered are gay would placed in danger.

Ex. 30 year old accountant who makes enough money to live comfortably and is able to care for himself, and accepts that he like men but hides his gayness from friends and family to make his family "proud" and to avoid hurt feelings. He could change minds about gay rights if he was honest.

Ex. 2 15 year old boy who discovers men instead of women. Has deeply religious parents and attends Christian school. If he comes out he could be disowned and his school life might become hell. No one is saying he should come out

Ex. 3 30 year old man who is living comfortably and can take care of himself but is raised to be Catholic and cannot accept he is gay. No one is saying he should come out right now, just do it when or if he can accept himself

Every guy is different and his coming out is unique to him. But if you can do it without placing yourself in danger, you could help gay rights move forward by giving a face and name to those "disgusting fags" that people hate. It would show that their beliefs and attitudes are hurting those they care about, know and might love. Of course their hate and ignorance might still blind them, but their is a chance coming out could change something. The "freaks and perverts" would suddenly be John, Michael, Suzy, Mark, who live by you, who had a positive impact on your life. The "local sinner" suddenly becomes 10 and and they see can how their attitudes are hurting those around them, not just nameless, faceless homos Which is why it so important for men and women to come out (if they can without placing themselves in danger) and be united.

Again, I'm not trying to speak for anybody and if I'm wrong correct me, I'm just trying to understand everyone.

 

[hotatlboi]

^ that's an excellent post and way to put it. I agree completely.

 

[flashforward]

I'm sorry but there are too many idealistic posters in this thread. I came out at 20 and lost more than 1/2 of my friends and while I wasn't "disowned" from my family, it put a strain on my relationship with most of them that still hasn't totally recovered. It's to the point where the best I can be with some of them is uncomfortably "cordial," while the bridge is totally burned with others.

Sure I've made a few new friends who accept that I'm gay, but I've still encountered too many people who looked at me like I was no better than vermin or a space alien upon finding out and whose faces immediately get defensive as soon as I'm around...then there are those who give me this sort of awkward "oh....!" type reaction and don't speak to me as much as they did beforehand....or worse, treat me nice in a way similar to how they would treat someone who is impaired or needs charity.

Sorry if I'm not 100% militant or politically-social 100% of the time, but I am only human and negativity from people who you came to care about isn't something that can always be easily shrugged off. It can be unnerving and does begins to take a toll.

Yes coming out can change some minds and I would generally encourage people to do it. It's important to have a sense of self and dignity but I would NEVER lead people who're conflicted about whether or not they should come out to believe that everything will be roses if they just DO IT or condescend them with stock lines about "If they really care about you, they'll accept you." If only emotions and life were that cut and dry. And frankly I resent the idealistic implications that some people like to perpetuate because I know better than that. I've experienced the total opposite. Sometimes you have to be real: coming out is a crap shoot. You may have a huge weight lifted off your shoulders, and find that everyone loves & supports you as much as they ever did...if you're lucky even more. Or you may come out and lose some or everything you hold dear which CAN be devastating and demoralizing and have to literally start over from the bottom. You have know your situation and be prepared for anything.

Some minds are already made up about certain things. Just knowing a gay person on a personal level doesn't always lead others to enlightenment. Sad to say that it sometimes it fuels their bigotry and just gives them a target.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Well, Flashforward, I'd personally rather be hated for who I am than loved for being someone I'm not.

But I'm an asshole.

 

[sixthson]

A wedding is a symbol of marriage, whether it is a big church wedding or a private matter before a justice of the peace. A wedding is a public expression of what has already happened in the hearts of two people who love each other and are committed to one another. What we see in this thread and many other threads, is not much more than political muscle flexing. It gets reduced to who is the better gay.

I have my doubts about how sincere many are about marriage...gay or straight.

 

[metta]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrsZk35XBeQ&feature=sub[/ame]