Gay Obama-haters

[Kulindahr]

.... D: !!!!!!!

Are you gay, too? Because I don't think that can work! Gay people would be shunned by white supremacists just as much as Jews and black people. I do hope your real reason for starting this thread is NOT to convince people that the White Way is the Right Way...

So true... I've yet to meet a white supremacist who plans to eliminate the gays just as soon as he's killed off the "niggers".

It can be said of Jubbers to count on NickCole to strut out onto the stage and start to spew out complete crap.

His record isn't that consistently wrong; he just comes across as Johnny one-note.

Bush was an asshole but he knew how to get shit done. He was always wrong, of course, but he believed he was right and he didn't care what anyone else thought. He was reelected by sheer luck.

Not even Bush was talented enough to be "always wrong". For example, his 'ground zero' speech was inspiring, even judged one of the most inspiring speeches by a U.S. president (not that he knew where to go from there). And when he had John Bolton tell the U.N. that the U.S. wasn't going to surrender constitutionally-protected rights just to make the rest of the world happy, that was right on target. Then... ... ...
I'll get back to you.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

Not even Bush was talented enough to be "always wrong".

But he sure worked hard at it.

For example, his 'ground zero' speech was inspiring, even judged one of the most inspiring speeches by a U.S. president (not that he knew where to go from there).

Well, that one was kind of hard to screw up. Everybody was on his side at that point. Even I was on his side. He didn't have to be right. He just had to say all the right things.

And when he had John Bolton tell the U.N. that the U.S. wasn't going to surrender constitutionally-protected rights just to make the rest of the world happy, that was right on target.

I suspect he didn't want to give the rights up to the UN so he could take the credit for destroying them himself.

Ahhh well. I didn't literally mean he was ALWAYS wrong. Just he was wrong so often that the times he was right didn't amount to much. I don't expect Obama will be much better. What puzzles me is whether he's doing it on purpose or whether he's doing it out of cowardice.

 

[NickCole]

Not even Bush was talented enough to be "always wrong". For example, his 'ground zero' speech was inspiring, even judged one of the most inspiring speeches by a U.S. president (not that he knew where to go from there).

Who judged that as one of the most inspiring speeches by a US President? And what did it inspire? Bush knew where he wanted to go from there and it was the wrong place; it was the American people who didn't know where they wanted to go, and where they went wasn't good. Look where we ended up, in a pointless war, torturing, denying Due Process, diminished standing in the world, deeper in debt and in the middle of an economic crisis brought on by deceitfulness from borrowers and lenders.

Bush's Ground Zero speech was just like Obama's appearances that get people saying he's The One We've Been Waiting For or that they're proud of him.

There's a big difference between inspiring and seducing.

When will Americans grow up and stop being so easily fooled by costumes and props and a good stage set.

 

[palemale]

My two cents on this. First, Obama was my first choice in the primaries and I don't regret voting for him then or in the general election. Although I was very enthusiastic about his election, I never subscribed to the "Obama as messiah" theory. He is a politician after all, although I think one of the more principled and honest ones to be elected to POTUS, or any higher office, in quite a long time. We live in a society where money talks and corporations rule. Corporate influence on the Democratic Party is way too powerful, but at least important constituencies in the Democratic Party, i.e. labor unions, environmentalists, community activists, peace groups, civil rights groups (gay, minority, civil liberties) etc., provide somewhat of a counterbalance. These groups must keep the pressure on the Obama administration, and be relentless about it.

Particularly on the economic front, Obama has put in too many holdovers from the Clinton administration who are too chummy with Wall Street and corporations (Summers, Geitner, etc.). We can only partly lay the blame for the economic mess on Republicans, every President from Reagan to "W", including Bill Clinton, are to blame. Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for many years in that period and went along with the policies that have ruined the economy.

As for the deficits Obama has amassed, anyone who thinks the stimulus package Obama got passed wasn't necessary is just plain foolish and ignorant of history. I think the reason the Great Depression was so severe is that it occurred early in the Hoover administration, which chose to do nothing and follow a laissez faire economic policy. When Roosevelt became POTUS, the Depression had been raging for almost 3 1/2 years. While I don't think the Obama stimulus package went far enough, I think it slowed the bleeding and prevented a greater economic catastrophe.

Unfortunately, Obama still has to deal with a Congress populated with right wing Republicans and moderate to conservative Democrats who stand in the way of progress. The result is often not pretty. But remember what Otto Von Bismark said, "laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."

 

[hotatlboi]

Yes, as a matter of fact I am gay and also a white supremecist.

Gays in general are not the problem with the white race. The ones who do not reproduce are.

I want to grow up and have a family and children one day, even though I'm gay. Race before sexual orientation is important to me.

Want to know some more interesting facts?

I am gay, and I also endorsed Prop. 8.

As far as I know, having different political opinions doesn't make me ineligible for this board, neither does supporting anti-(gay marriage) legislation.

I am gay, so I should have as much right as anyone else on this board. I can be gay and have conservative views, can I not?

I can't think of anything to respond to this with except, good luck with that.

 

[Críostóir]

I think white supremacists should be kicked off this site completely. No toleration for intolerance. I don't make those decisions here. But my general attitude to white supremacists is: eat shit and die, you worthless scumbags. And I am QUITE white myself--almost vampiric in my pallor, in fact, with 100% Northern European ancestry.

Bush was and is a total shithead with no redeeming features whatsoever. He should be in prison for the rest of his life for what he's done to this country. His crimes are much worse than Bernie Madoff's, and THAT guy got 150 years (well-deserved, in my opinion).

Barry O has been in office for six months and you're dissing him because he hasn't fixed the results of eight solid years of plundering the national treasury, getting us into stupid unnecessary wars, and general fuckups? I got news for you, we're going to be living with the toxic waste (literal and figurative) of the [STRIKE]Cheney[/STRIKE] Bush Administration for DECADES to come.

It's easier to mess things up than it is to put them back together. Always.

 

[Críostóir]

It's also interesting what some people think are "conservative views." The views NightOwlGate is espousing here are the very ones we fought WWII to defeat. There's nothing conservative about them. I can only hope that conservatives and liberals alike will team up to denounce and defeat NOG and his ilk again, should the need arise.

You're the enemy, NOG, of everything America stands for. That's not conservative. That's just plain evil.

 

[Runewell]

It's also interesting what some people think are "conservative views." The views NightOwlGate is espousing here are the very ones we fought WWII to defeat. There's nothing conservative about them. I can only hope that conservatives and liberals alike will team up to denounce and defeat NOG and his ilk again, should the need arise.

You're the enemy, NOG, of everything America stands for. That's not conservative. That's just plain evil.

 

[NickCole]

What you have to keep in mind is that usually when our nation faces disasters (such as the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks), the President's Approval Rating tends to increase exponentially. Part of it IS seduction. But nobody knew that his speech would result in things like the Abu Ghraib Incident. We are only human and none of us can predict the future.

Well, I'm human as well. I was in NYC on 9/11 and although I opposed Bush much more stridently than I criticize Obama today, when I met up with my bf and friends that evening I said we have to give Bush a chance. This might change him and his administration, and we need to pull together as a nation no matter who's President and give him our support.

I watched Giuliani respond in live TV broadcasts and even though I'd been increasingly critical of him for months, after 9/11 I was glad I'd voted for him. He was a leader and also a human being talking to us as fellow citizens in a crisis we had to figure our way through, flawed like any human but he did right by us. Then I watched Bush give that Ground Zero speech live. And I saw what Bush & Co were doing. I didn't know the details of what they had in mind but I saw it was nothing but a show, all pretense from Bush's outfit to the bullhorn to the pile of rubble they chose to the firefighter standing beside him, it was costumes, props and a set. I watched Bush, his demeanor, his eyes and facial expression, the tone of his voice, and I knew that fundamentally he did not care. It was pretense, a show, and something other than dealing with the terrorists who'd done that was on the Bush & Co agenda. That night I told my friends Bush hadn't changed and was up to no good. Giuliani was inspiring in the way he spoke to us forthrightly and approached the problems facing NYC after 9/11; Bush was nothing but a seducer, and even though seducers convince you they care about you and whatever it is they've discovered you care about, the truth is they never really care about anything or anyone but themselves and their own (usually hidden) agenda.

But aside from all that, someone here stated that Bush's Ground Zero speech has been judged as one of the most inspiring by any US President, and that's a judgement that is --or ought to be-- made in the context of what it inspires, not just how it feels the day it's delivered. It's like judging Obama's race speech in Philly as inspiring without knowing if it inspired any change at all in race relations or understanding. JFK's Inaugural Speech can be judged as inspiring because of what it inspired (to this day, people still mention having been inspired by it into public service); MLK's I Have a Dream speech can be judged as inspiring because it inspired a greater boldness and confidence in fighting for civil rights and, for many of my generation, to this day MLK's dream that people be judged by the content of their character rings clear as inspiration. But what did Bush's speech inspire?

 

[palemale]

Kudos Críostóir, I agree, except not ready to kick NOG off JUB. He may be persuadable.

NickCole, Guiliani is an asshole. Always was, always will be. After 911, he wanted to cancel the elections and remain mayor. You should read the last case the Federal Court of Appeals issued in a 1st Amendment case against NYC during the Guiliani administration, it's 23rd decision. Harshly, and uncharacteristically, critical of Guiliani's disregard for the 1st Amendment rights of the citizens. He recently missed the wedding of the gay couple friends he stayed with after his divorce with some lame excuse. The obvious reason is that he wants a future in an increasingly reactionary Republican Party.

NightOwlGate. Can't you see what a dead-end ideology white supremacy is? In the first instance, any ideology based on hating other groups is simply self destructive. White supremacists are angry at the world and their place in it. It is a nihilistic belief system which posits that one's only path to self betterment is through government destruction of the rights of others. You say you want children. Why would you want to teach your children that whites (except Jews) are superior to other races. They will, as they grow up, see that in fact Jews and Asians as a group do better than non-Jewish white groups educationally and economically. What will it do to their sense of self-worth when they see that there are blacks, asians and latinos who are more successful them them. Don't you think it will harm their self esteem to see that people whom their father has taught them are sub-human and inferior to white people are smarter and more successful then them. Our reactionary courts are methodically dismantling affirmative action programs, so you soon won't have that crutch to explain your lack of advancement.

Of course, the more likely scenario is that you will have children who are smart, get themselves educated, and will realize how wrong you are and you will forever have a source of tension in your relationship with your children. I have a friend whose father is extremely racist. My friend is educated and, of course, voted for Obama. He has a terrible relationship with his father, finds him to be an embarrassment and tries to have as little contact with him as possible. My friend is married with children. Do you want to end up being an old man whose children want to restrict your contact with your grandchildren to shield them from your racist views.

 

[popsicles101]

the war wasn't exactly pointless and neither was the torture... we found out a few terrorist attacks from the tortured terrorists. I'd rather have one terrorist suffer than innocent people killed. As for the war that was definitely not pointless. If we hadn't done anything there would be more terrorist attacks than ever and Saddam would still be alive killing by the hundreds... so i'd say it wasn't pointless. I agree with how you want "Americans to grow up and stop being easily fooled by costumes and props and a good stage set" because that's exactly what happened with Obama. The only good thing Obama is, is a good public speaker.


This is to NickCole by the way...

And NightOwlGate i completely agree with everything you say... im gay and im all for prop 8!!

 

[palemale]

Popsicles honey, you need to inform yourself. I'm appalled at the level of support I have seen on this site justifying torture. What is wrong with you guys? Anyone who justifes torture is either hostile to democracy and the rule of law, or simply ignorant about it. Civilized countries don't torture, it is a violation of international law, US law, and common decency. It neither makes this country safe, and has produced no useful information, if anything it has produced tons of misinformation.

Keep in mind, our government prosecuted Japanese military officers and others who waterboarded American servicemen.

Those of you who endorse torture need to drag yourselves out of the dark ages and into the 21st century.

 

[popsicles101]

i don't want to start an argument but i feel torture is only just under certain circumstances.... if a terrorist was going to blow up an entire building with thousands of people inside (basically 9/11) i would torture him to save those thousands of people. I think it's "hostile to democracy" not to torture to save thousands and i think that Civilized Countries would rather have one terrorist suffer than to let those thousands of people just die because you don't have the balls or the means for justification to torture a terrorist for the greater good..

 

[palemale]

Popsicle, the evidence from our recent bout of torture shows that those being tortured provided false information in order to stop the torture. As a result, the CIA sent numbers of agents out on wild goose chases all over the world. While real terrorists were plotting to blow up thousands of people in buildings, our agents were chasing phantom terrorists engaged in non-existent plots.

The real reason the US tortured, however, was not to stop terrorists from blowing up buildings, but to find a link between Iraq and Al Queda to justify the war against Iraq. A war about which, I might add, Bush and Co. lied to the American people to build support for it. Democracy cannot survive if a government continually lies to the people. Democracy can only survive if it has the consent of an informed citizenry and follows the rule of law.

 

[Alpha1851]

He's immoral. He supports abortion, which is murder IMO.

Okay. But you're just expressing your moral opinion, just like some folks believe gay marriage is immoral. Even if I concede that life begins at conception, I don't think it matters. "We" snuff out people all the time. People who commit crimes are sometimes sentenced to death. There are times when hospitals will not keep someone alive if it's not beneficial to the person and the care is to expensive. Some doctors will overload their dying patients w/ morphine in order to ease their pain--but morphine also kills them quicker. Oregon has legalized physician assisted suicide. Plenty of civilians have died while we raged war. Sometimes after invitro, the doctor will take out some of the eggs that are fertilized so the mother doesn't have a litter of kids.

Really, how is your opinion any different from those who believe that homosexuality is a sin and that children are harmed when they're raised by same sex parents? It's all just moral reasoning. Great if you've fleshed out your reasoning in your mind, but to state that Pres. Obama or anyone else is immoral, just pushes it for me.

I also find it hard to believe that someone who refers to President Obama and his administration as "ObamaCo" is actually hopeful that President Obama will impact our nation in a positive manner. Bias comes across loud and clear.

On point, I'm disappointed w/ the Democrats in general for not taking the reins. Most of them seemed terrified of being Democrats.

 

[Kulindahr]

But he sure worked hard at it.

Personally, I don't think Bush worked hard at anything in his life.

Who judged that as one of the most inspiring speeches by a US President?

US News, as I recall. They did a piece on presidential speeches, and the GZ speech made the top ten. Reagan's "Tea down this wall!" speech was in there, as was the old "We have nothing to fear but fear itself", and "Ask not what your country can do for you...."

 

[Kulindahr]

<hey, what part of Oregon constitutes as "Redneck Land"? I live in SW WA.>

Northern coast, up to Warrenton. Everything between Lincoln city and Warrenton is pretty redneck.

It's also interesting what some people think are "conservative views." The views NightOwlGate is espousing here are the very ones we fought WWII to defeat. There's nothing conservative about them. I can only hope that conservatives and liberals alike will team up to denounce and defeat NOG and his ilk again, should the need arise.

You're the enemy, NOG, of everything America stands for. That's not conservative. That's just plain evil.

 

[Kulindahr]

the war wasn't exactly pointless and neither was the torture... we found out a few terrorist attacks from the tortured terrorists. I'd rather have one terrorist suffer than innocent people killed. As for the war that was definitely not pointless. If we hadn't done anything there would be more terrorist attacks than ever and Saddam would still be alive killing by the hundreds... so i'd say it wasn't pointless. I agree with how you want "Americans to grow up and stop being easily fooled by costumes and props and a good stage set" because that's exactly what happened with Obama. The only good thing Obama is, is a good public speaker.

The military adventure in Iraq was totally pointless. There were no terrorists coming from Iraq, and the only relationship between Iraw and terrorist organizations was a business relationship: Iraq rented out training camps, but they rented them out to anyone and everyone.

Invading Iraq inspired more terrorists; it didn't reduce the number at all. The only benefit it has had WRT terrorists has been to give them a target close at hand... and thus perhaps avoid anything serious over here.
But what it has done more is deepened hatred of the U.S. among a substantial population, inspiring more people to turn terrorist and making us less safe in the long run.

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

He's kinda busy with the whole FIXING EVERYTHING GEORGE W. BUSH DID TO FUCK UP THE EARTH IN THE PAST 8 YEARS

While relevant, that excuse is old. Think of another reason to think he's a saint.

To the OP - I don't hate Obama. The only person I "hate" in this world is Jennifer Lopez. BUT ANYWAY - Obama is just doing an "OK" job in my opinion. He hasn't been in office even a year, so until I see real results of things he's doing, I won't say yay or nay.
But if you hate him just because he's black, that's pathetic.

 

[Kulindahr]

Would it be okay to hate Obama 'cause he's hot... but straight?