On Topic Discussion Glee actor Mark Salling, 35, found dead

[luckynumbah7]

I have little to no interest in understanding the inner mullings of predators [for clarity's sake I'm lumping viewers and creators of child porn altogether], so thanks but no thanks. They're monsters. Lock em up. Chemically castrate em. Let em hang themselves. Problem solved from where I'm sitting. This is America, prison is how we deal with criminals, not giving them ink blot tests and studying their brain waves.

Mmm. And what about the people who watch no child porn and have no children? Quite a few people avoid having children when they suspect their character or upbringing could prove problematic, so avoiding the situation entirely seems more than reasonable. I'd think understanding how the various ticking manifests would help speed along the management process. Though I don't know that talking to the people who've failed at it is going to be much help.

 

[peeonme]

Re: Mark Salling dead

That ain't gonna happen, my friend. And, as with any other 'deviation', it cannot be cured. It cannot be treated. I mentioned somewhere above that even chemical castration doesn't work. The desire remains until death.

At one time we didn't harvest organs from donors, there was no way to prevent polio, schizophrenia could not be controlled and the list goes on. Waiting until someone gets caught most often leaves a history of victims. We just had a person sentenced here in Michigan who had over 200 victims.

There has to be a better way, starting with offering help to those who have committed no actual crime such as child porn or child sex but are fighting demons. Some kind of a support network might help, drug companies are always coming up with new cures or ways of treating people.

I realize that perhaps my position is unpopular, anger makes us think in an irrational fashion. But anger and prisons come after lives are ruined and damage is done, why should we not be pro-active?

 

[luckynumbah7]

That support network better be heavily monitored.

When have drugs ever changed anyone's sexual desire? Not the frequency but the desire itself. I'm certain that's been tried on many a group, it never works.

 

[peeonme]

That support network better be heavily monitored.

When have drugs ever changed anyone's sexual desire? Not the frequency but the desire itself. I'm certain that's been tried on many a group, it never works.

Perhaps not the desire, but the urge or drive. It goes without saying that I am no scientist. But, if we headed to the warning of nay saying negative people, we would not have air-ports. With the number of victims that we hear of be it at Penn. State or the Olympics
or just some one in his cave lusting after the victims that he sees on the net, I think that the problem should be looked at from every angle possible.

 

[johaninsc]

I have little to no interest in understanding the inner mullings of predators [for clarity's sake I'm lumping viewers and creators of child porn altogether], so thanks but no thanks. They're monsters. Lock em up. Chemically castrate em. Let em hang themselves. Problem solved from where I'm sitting. This is America, prison is how we deal with criminals, not giving them ink blot tests and studying their brain waves.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Perhaps not the desire, but the urge or drive. It goes without saying that I am no scientist. But, if we headed to the warning of nay saying negative people, we would not have air-ports. With the number of victims that we hear of be it at Penn. State or the Olympics
or just some one in his cave lusting after the victims that he sees on the net, I think that the problem should be looked at from every angle possible.

Can't force an adult to take medication and there's lots of things that lower sexual drive naturally. Granted, that's mostly masturbation and all sorts of exercise unless you want to aim for high stress, though some pills side effects may lower/totally kill the drive. Far be it for me to sneer at someone requesting said medication but reigning in sexual actions are a brain thing. And it's about time people acknowledge that someone's failure to regulate their own actions are exactly that. Not 'they couldn't help their actions because there's a boner involved', which is a sentiment I see so often expressed by people I'd like to incarnate it and hang it from the nearest rafter. That sentiment slides, and it's used no matter the sexuality. If people think they're not giving away excuses they need to reconsider all the angles something may apply to. Last I checked sex drive never commanded anything, it's limited to dribbling a little and distorting the undies.

Not that you said it did, but people should stop wishing for a magic pill and get off their damn ass and deal with their own shit.

 

[LeicsDom]

When have drugs ever changed anyone's sexual desire? Not the frequency but the desire itself. I'm certain that's been tried on many a group, it never works.

My sexual desire has dried up completely on several occasions when I have been on prescription drugs.
Lack of desire is only a complete lack of frequency

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

At one time we didn't harvest organs from donors, there was no way to prevent polio, schizophrenia could not be controlled and the list goes on. Waiting until someone gets caught most often leaves a history of victims. We just had a person sentenced here in Michigan who had over 200 victims.

There has to be a better way, starting with offering help to those who have committed no actual crime such as child porn or child sex but are fighting demons. Some kind of a support network might help, drug companies are always coming up with new cures or ways of treating people.

I realize that perhaps my position is unpopular, anger makes us think in an irrational fashion. But anger and prisons come after lives are ruined and damage is done, why should we not be pro-active?

I do think there should be alternatives to how we handle a lot of “conditions” in our society, there’s definitely room for understanding for a lot of these and maybe there is some here, but personally not for me.

At the same time even as a society if we were open to treat these people and aid them. Knowing these people have these thoughts and desires, what do we do then? Even during the process you can’t just trust someone’s word that they haven’t done anything to a child and even if they haven’t, people lie about the most inconsequential things.

And even then, having this information on someone, do we keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t do anything? I mean would the doctors and authorities be at fault if someone was looking for help under these conditions and they didn’t keep an eye on this individual, then something actually happened?

There is a lot to even consider when it comes to dealing with these people for treatment.

 

[gsdx]

I do think there should be alternatives to how we handle a lot of “conditions” in our society, there’s definitely room for understanding for a lot of these and maybe there is some here, but personally not for me.

Some 'conditions' are completely invisible. For every person like Salling who got caught, there are thousands and thousands of others who go through their entire lives with nobody knowing their obsession, even close family members or spouses.

 

[KaraBulut]

I have little to no interest in understanding the inner mullings of predators [for clarity's sake I'm lumping viewers and creators of child porn altogether], so thanks but no thanks. They're monsters. Lock em up. Chemically castrate em. Let em hang themselves. Problem solved from where I'm sitting. This is America, prison is how we deal with criminals, not giving them ink blot tests and studying their brain waves.

Ah yes. Like they used to do to gay men. The Alan Turing solution.

 

[luckynumbah7]

My sexual desire has dried up completely on several occasions when I have been on prescription drugs.
Lack of desire is only a complete lack of frequency

There's a difference between desire and drive. Desire is what you want, drive is how much you want it. you'd still get desire in brief flashes, it just wont contain sexual content, depending on how things are for the individual.

Unless you believe you lost your gayness once you lost interest in sex? My sex drive occasionally does a runner, doesn't mean desire's not in there somewhere. Relationships are about more than sex.

Granted, I separate sex and that kind of 'be together forevah, or five minutes, whichever come first' relationship as a matter of course most days but there's not a whole hell of a lot of people who do that. A lot of men think they do, and they don't do it very well.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Ah yes. Like they used to do to gay men. The Alan Turing solution.

Loving the same gender =/= watching child porn (along with sexually abusing a woman, a fact that many here seem to have conveniently forgotten, no doubt because of his dreamy eyes and killer cheekbones )

 

[luckynumbah7]

I do think there should be alternatives to how we handle a lot of “conditions” in our society, there’s definitely room for understanding for a lot of these and maybe there is some here, but personally not for me.

At the same time even as a society if we were open to treat these people and aid them. Knowing these people have these thoughts and desires, what do we do then? Even during the process you can’t just trust someone’s word that they haven’t done anything to a child and even if they haven’t, people lie about the most inconsequential things.

And even then, having this information on someone, do we keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t do anything? I mean would the doctors and authorities be at fault if someone was looking for help under these conditions and they didn’t keep an eye on this individual, then something actually happened?

There is a lot to even consider when it comes to dealing with these people for treatment.

I think you might be giving not enough credit to personal agency. No one should trust anyone's word as it stands, that doesn't change just because someone is a bit more honest.

It's not 'someone is adrift at sea', it's 'someone is adrift at sea with a motor and some backup oars.' There's many ways to not rape, such as avoiding temptation entirely. And there's many, many ways to limit alone time with children. Such as leaving the area and not getting jobs that work with kids. Oh, and being honest with yourself. I imagine you manage it the same way you manage other things you know you shouldn't be doing in real life.

It would be fairly simple, depending on the numbers of course, to voluntarily electrically monitor the whereabouts of individuals in relation to children and accusations. Since kids are rarely left alone a microchip would be a sterling start for 'were you with the child in this place at this time pertaining to these accusations". Responsible adults know who they've left their children in the hands of, generally speaking. It isn't as if a chipped list would be public, as they haven't done anything. And I imagine it would assuage personal fear of lapse to know there's people willing to watch your back, as it were.

Personally, I'd like a chip so Roomie can find my sorry ass when I'm lost. Oodles of uses for one.

 

[peeonme]

Can't force an adult to take medication and there's lots of things that lower sexual drive naturally. Granted, that's mostly masturbation and all sorts of exercise unless you want to aim for high stress, though some pills side effects may lower/totally kill the drive. Far be it for me to sneer at someone requesting said medication but reigning in sexual actions are a brain thing. And it's about time people acknowledge that someone's failure to regulate their own actions are exactly that. Not 'they couldn't help their actions because there's a boner involved', which is a sentiment I see so often expressed by people I'd like to incarnate it and hang it from the nearest rafter. That sentiment slides, and it's used no matter the sexuality. If people think they're not giving away excuses they need to reconsider all the angles something may apply to. Last I checked sex drive never commanded anything, it's limited to dribbling a little and distorting the undies.

Not that you said it did, but people should stop wishing for a magic pill and get off their damn ass and deal with their own shit.

You make a good point, perhaps some form of therapy would help if there were to be no fear of being sold out. If the condition of pedophilia could be separated from the term of child molester and treated like any other mental problem it would be a place to start.

It is not known how many pedophiles exist, there are many that never act upon their urges or desires. They might be compared to a person that has a predisposition to addictions of some kind, but has never tried a substance. It takes one drink, one snort to start a process that they are not aware even exists.

The difference being of course that most pedophiles are aware of their preferences, they might be in denial and tell themselves that they would never act out, and then one day an opportunity presents its self. As with all drives and desires once they do it, the next becomes easier, they become bolder.

Perhaps, just perhaps if they had been in therapy and getting treatment for an antisocial mental problem, they would not have acted out. But, we will never know with the system that we now have in place.

 

[luckynumbah7]

You make a good point, perhaps some form of therapy would help if there were to be no fear of being sold out. If the condition of pedophilia could be separated from the term of child molester and treated like any other mental problem it would be a place to start.

It is not known how many pedophiles exist, there are many that never act upon their urges or desires. They might be compared to a person that has a predisposition to addictions of some kind, but has never tried a substance. It takes one drink, one snort to start a process that they are not aware even exists.

The difference being of course that most pedophiles are aware of their preferences, they might be in denial and tell themselves that they would never act out, and then one day an opportunity presents its self. As with all drives and desires once they do it, the next becomes easier, they become bolder.

Perhaps, just perhaps if they had been in therapy and getting treatment for an antisocial mental problem, they would not have acted out. But, we will never know with the system that we now have in place.

Not all of it is due to an antisocial mental problem. Power, easy release, an imagined emotional connection, none of that hinges on the antisocial per se. I doubt there's much overlap as someone with an antisocial personality chooses antisocial behavior. I doubt they'd usually be around kids voluntarily for. Lengths of time, let alone anyone else. Emotionally stunted, however, is a different ballgame entirely. They are social, but they're not read as socially mature/adequate. Which has fuckall to do with scheming adult intelligence put to bad usage.

I really don't agree with the addiction model. It misses the point that the drive itself didn't shift at all. It's not that actions are addicting, it's that people give up trying not to do something in the first place. To have an addiction something must be introduced, and the fascination is already there.

Now, I could see how an outside influence/action might exacerbate lack of control/matters. That I could call an addiction. But not the thing itself.

 

[luckynumbah7]

The difference being of course that most pedophiles are aware of their preferences, they might be in denial and tell themselves that they would never act out, and then one day an opportunity presents its self. As with all drives and desires once they do it, the next becomes easier, they become bolder.

Denial is a choice. As is acceptance and managing yourself. Therapy does nothing for those who intend to deny, is the thing, which is why I don't believe therapy is likely to help unless it's voluntary. (Or in a control-your-life settin, that kinda setting things might seep in anyway. There's certainly many a prisoner who've claimed to have found God, and I'd even believe a few of 'em. Numbers, y'know) Otherwise there's just someone sitting in a room insisting this is all an innocent mistake because x/y/z excuse while the other participants demand Responsibility is taken.

People still seem to be assuming a feeling is an action.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I think you might be giving not enough credit to personal agency. No one should trust anyone's word as it stands, that doesn't change just because someone is a bit more honest.

It's not 'someone is adrift at sea', it's 'someone is adrift at sea with a motor and some backup oars.' There's many ways to not rape, such as avoiding temptation entirely. And there's many, many ways to limit alone time with children. Such as leaving the area and not getting jobs that work with kids. Oh, and being honest with yourself. I imagine you manage it the same way you manage other things you know you shouldn't be doing in real life.

It would be fairly simple, depending on the numbers of course, to voluntarily electrically monitor the whereabouts of individuals in relation to children and accusations. Since kids are rarely left alone a microchip would be a sterling start for 'were you with the child in this place at this time pertaining to these accusations". Responsible adults know who they've left their children in the hands of, generally speaking. It isn't as if a chipped list would be public, as they haven't done anything. And I imagine it would assuage personal fear of lapse to know there's people willing to watch your back, as it were.

Personally, I'd like a chip so Roomie can find my sorry ass when I'm lost. Oodles of uses for one.

The things I know I shouldn’t be doing aren’t on the same level as having desire for children sexually or emotionally. Quelling those things aren’t equal to me simply not stealing something or doing another act against the law.

As for my point about monitoring, it wasn’t meant to be a suggestion. It’s not something I am actually for as the off chance that the person is actually innocent and their life is being monitored because of the chance that they might actually be a predator. My point is that helping these people isn’t simply just taking them to see specialists and that’s it. For the sake of argument and generalizing, not every person has these desires and getting help is a predator but not everyone that is getting help is innocent.

People relapse on alcohol and drugs even when getting help, so what do we do with people seeking help for these feelings and/or desires? There is a chance of them caving to these feeling or desires. Do we do nothing and chance more victims? Or do we do something like monitoring? Which is scary even on the off chance the person is innocent and is being treated like they are guilty.

And monitoring isn’t the only example of something I wouldn’t be for if such a thing started to happen. Maybe I’m just not thinking of a good alternative about how these people should be “handled” if they were to seek help. Maybe some things I’m not thinking of.

But prevention measures and expecting parents to keep their eyes on their children all the time isn’t something I have a lot of faith in.

 

[peeonme]

Lucky, I am not sure which of your posts to address, the use of terminologies, diagnoses or what ever is of little value as I am a lay man, my point still remains that if we as a society choose to do more than have horror stories about child sex offenders on our evening news or a suicide report of an actor who was found with kiddie porn then maybe offering treatment to those who desire to help themselves would be a good option.

I take an interest in abnormal behavior in people for a good reason, I grew up around abnormal people. The question in my mind has always been 'why them?'. Nature? Nurture? Could they have been helped? Did they learn their behavior? Did they have a choice? Where they fighting it?

I have done some reading as a neighbor gave me her text books a number of years ago, when it came to pedophilia there was more than one 'type'. Some were conditioned (as in having their first definitive sexual experience with a child in an institution) some were opportunists, never on the hunt for a victim but acting out when left alone with a child. Some were emotionally stunted and couldn't form an emotional bond with an adult.

Whatever the cause or type, to wait until they have a victim rather than to intervene at their request, laying aside our hatreds an animosities with the intent of actually keeping them from harming a child seems like a dull witted approach to me.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

Re: Mark Salling dead

I'm going to be that bitch to express my complete and utter lack of shock that a man who had possession of child pornography is getting a lot more sympathy on social media than.... nevermind I can't even do it tonight. Our culture is really fucking shitty sometimes.

For real.

 

[luckynumbah7]

The things I know I shouldn’t be doing aren’t on the same level as having desire for children sexually or emotionally. Quelling those things aren’t equal to me simply not stealing something or doing another act against the law.

As for my point about monitoring, it wasn’t meant to be a suggestion. It’s not something I am actually for as the off chance that the person is actually innocent and their life is being monitored because of the chance that they might actually be a predator. My point is that helping these people isn’t simply just taking them to see specialists and that’s it. For the sake of argument and generalizing, not every person has these desires and getting help is a predator but not everyone that is getting help is innocent.

People relapse on alcohol and drugs even when getting help, so what do we do with people seeking help for these feelings and/or desires? There is a chance of them caving to these feeling or desires. Do we do nothing and chance more victims? Or do we do something like monitoring? Which is scary even on the off chance the person is innocent and is being treated like they are guilty.

And monitoring isn’t the only example of something I wouldn’t be for if such a thing started to happen. Maybe I’m just not thinking of a good alternative about how these people should be “handled” if they were to seek help. Maybe some things I’m not thinking of.

But prevention measures and expecting parents to keep their eyes on their children all the time isn’t something I have a lot of faith in.

What makes you think I was comparing it to other acts that aren't sexual? There's a big difference between "sounds like fun" and "ethical exploration of subjects". theres all sorts of people running around not doing what Catches the fancy in unethical sexual ways.

Sexuality isn't a drug or an alcohol. It doesn't act like a drug or alcohol, either. Not everything that feels good is addicting. Why are people assuming one sexual proclivity is automatically addicting while their own sexuality is immutable so's contains no addiction whatsoever? I'd say it's a language barrier but the speakers are largely English.

The monitoring was for the innocence. In order to treat someone like they're guilty there must be a punishment of some kind. The ability to confirm whereabouts is not a punishment in itself. Restricting those whereabouts without a previous action could be considered a punishment but only if the restriction was enforced by an outside party. Otherwise it's a personal choice to avoid.

And I wasn't relying on parents, god no. Parents are idiots, by and large. I was relying on the general need for a parent to know where the kid should be at a given point to match it with proposed events should a concern from said kid come to light. Can't blame something on a reputation if they're not available, after all.