Hate to be the bearer of bad news but

[Runewell]

lol. I came along a little late. I get what fabulouslyghetto is trying to say, and, though it doesn't apply to me--a black gay man--I don't really disagree. I do understand he's not trying to say ALL black gays hate themselves, but that an alarming number of black gays seem to be invisible because of the way black America responds to homosexuality. I agree that blacks aren't the only ones who react strongly to the issue, but then again, whites in America are a larger group, and therefore a bit more diverse than blacks are as a whole.

So if we keep this issue STRICTLY to blacks, then there is sort of a pattern that emerges. I, for one, did experience lots of negative things said about gays, not in my immediate family (meaning mom, dad, brother), but in my larger, more extended community. Seems I was one of the lucky ones. And from what I've read here, the black gays that are here seem to be a well-informed, lucky bunch as well, so of course it doesn't apply to all. But still guys, can you really say that fab doesn't come from a place of truth?

 

[Apollo]

So I said some black gays are racist. Is that untrue? I don't feel so defensive about my race that I can't point out some of our ills.

For the 20th time, if I'm wrong somewhere, can someone point it out?

I don't see where you said black were racist in your OP. Really, just pay attention to the red.

 

[lilman]

wow fabghetto.......... right now i'm just at a loss for words, you really dont understand how much weight your op held do you? Its understandable that you feel the way you do about yourself and its understandable that you have problems getting other black men gay or str8 to accept you for who you are, i mean look at how many of us on this thread you've already pissed off

 

[SonOfSlobone]

lol. I came along a little late. I get what fabulouslyghetto is trying to say, and, though it doesn't apply to me--a black gay man--I don't really disagree. I do understand he's not trying to say ALL black gays hate themselves, but that an alarming number of black gays seem to be invisible because of the way black America responds to homosexuality. I agree that blacks aren't the only ones who react strongly to the issue, but then again, whites in America are a larger group, and therefore a bit more diverse than blacks are as a whole.

So if we keep this issue STRICTLY to blacks, then there is sort of a pattern that emerges. I, for one, did experience lots of negative things said about gays, not in my immediate family (meaning mom, dad, brother), but in my larger, more extended community. Seems I was one of the lucky ones. And from what I've read here, the black gays that are here seem to be a well-informed, lucky bunch as well, so of course it doesn't apply to all. But still guys, can you really say that fab doesn't come from a place of truth?

Well, to state the obvious, there are differences in the black community just as in the white community. Income, education, rural vs. urban, etc. A kid growing up in Greenwich Village is going to hear different things than somebody from rural Alabama.

But there's also a black culture that isn't exactly the same as anything white people have, right? The church, a different attitude to family, etc. So I can see where that could get kind of oppressive if you're "different."

Hopefully all this is changing anyway, but it's good to know where things are right now. I'm glad fabulouslyghetto posted the topic, it's a lot to think about...

 

[Treborf]

But I know about more than "myself." I actually pay attention to what's going around me. You'd be surprised what you can learn when you tear yourself away from the mirror for more than 5 minutes.

Man, just stop. You're not smart enough to be condescending.

As a black gay male who doesn't hate himself, I disprove your very first sentence, without even having to tear myself away from the mirror. And literally, none of the gay black men I know hate themselves. So does that mean that there are no black gay men who hate themselves? No, of course not. Only a fool assumes his or her experiences speak for everybody else's. But that's exactly what you're doing.

If you and most of the black gay men you know hate themselves, then you should have posted that. And then everybody else could have chimed in on their experiences, and we all could have had real dialogue. But you weren't looking for that, were you? No, you just wanted the chance to speak from on high, and got all pissy when folks called BS.

This thread needs a mercy killing.

 

[Jersey Domino]

Man, just stop. You're not smart enough to be condescending.

As a black gay male who doesn't hate himself, I disprove your very first sentence, without even having to tear myself away from the mirror. And literally, none of the gay black men I know hate themselves. So does that mean that there are no black gay men who hate themselves? No, of course not. Only a fool assumes his or her experiences speak for everybody else's. But that's exactly what you're doing.

If you and most of the black gay men you know hate themselves, then you should have posted that. And then everybody else could have chimed in on their experiences, and we all could have had real dialogue. But you weren't looking for that, were you? No, you just wanted the chance to speak from on high, and got all pissy when folks called BS.

This thread needs a mercy killing.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

wow fabghetto.......... right now i'm just at a loss for words, you really dont understand how much weight your op held do you? Its understandable that you feel the way you do about yourself and its understandable that you have problems getting other black men gay or str8 to accept you for who you are, i mean look at how many of us on this thread you've already pissed off

huh? the op doesn't apply to me. all of my friends are straight and in 5 years of being out none of them have had a problem with my homosexuality.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Do any of you see a link between homophobia, hypermasculinity, and the misogyny that seems to run through the black community?

Apparently those things are imaginary.

I think some of the black folks that have appeared out of thin air need to enroll in some college classes. The only reason they're offended (aside from my lack of the PCesque "some") is their ignorance. They don't know the problem exist and they're angered that someone has stated something they SHOULD know.

The experts are on my side, they must be wrong too.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

As a black gay male who doesn't hate himself, I disprove your very first sentence, without even having to tear myself away from the mirror. And literally, none of the gay black men I know hate themselves. So does that mean that there are no black gay men who hate themselves? No, of course not. Only a fool assumes his or her experiences speak for everybody else's. But that's exactly what you're doing.

Reading comprehension fail? I said these aren't my experiences. I'm still waiting on someone to show me where I'm wrong as a whole. A few cases don't disprove the overall statement.

This thread needs a mercy killing.

No, your ignorance needs a mercy killing. See the above recommendation to take some college courses.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

So, after two pages of me saying "I don't mean all" we're still stuck on that?

Funny how it's okay to lump republicans together without all the PC flags but now all of a sudden we need 'em.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Obviously you meant it or you wouldn't have said/typed it.

That doesn't make any sense. You're my Ace Boone and you don't fit the bill. Nor do I. Nor anyone I socialize with.

If I had known you girls were gonna be hung up on the phrasing I would've written it more carefully.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We're getting along. I'm just waiting to see if the naysayers will present a coherent argument before page 3. Apparently everything is fine except the lack of the word "some." No one is disagreeing with the body, just that opening sentence.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I have no problem with you or this thread really. I just did not care for the notion that only the black gay community is suffering from this.

Of course not, one look in Coming Out/Relationships and the Straight/Bi Dudes forums will tell ya' that

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

What is the point of this thread?

Take your pic. I referenced internal and external homophobia, religion, stds, self-hatred, racism.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I understand, but are you trying to raise awareness? Create a discussion? or try to inform people of something?

All of the above, the same thing anyone does when they make a topic. Obviously this is news to some people so they can either stress over one sentence or pay attention to the other paragraghs they were apparently unaware of.

A lot of people assume that their personal experiences reflect everyone else's which is why people are so judgmental of downlow men and guys who marry women.

The irony is they're contributing to the problem, those guys live that way because they were pushed against the wall by hetero society and they turn around and get the same treatment from us.

A lot of people look down on guys who aren't out and guys who don't embrace their homosexuality, we assume if it's easy for us it must be easy for everyone.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

A lot of people look down on guys who aren't out and guys who don't embrace their homosexuality, we assume if it's easy for us it must be easy for everyone.

This is probably a topic for another thread, but -- there are different degrees of outness.

I was closeted for a long time, but never in my own mind. I always knew I was gay, but I just hated the idea of discussing it with people whose opinion didn't matter to me. I had lots of sex but I kept it to myself.

Not too different from the down low guys -- except probably most of them won't even use the word gay when thinking about their sexuality. And if they're bisexual, then yes, they get contempt from both the gay world and the straight world.