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Healthcare going forward

Not quite the same order...but yeah Trump pissed on Biden's EO to reduce drug prices.

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rareboy said:
Not quite the same order...but yeah Trump pissed on Biden's EO to reduce drug prices.

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Here's the thing that I don't get... he is so incoherent that it was hard to tell whether he's pissed that Americans pay more or whether he's pissed that every other country pays less.

Here's the EO summary from the White House website:
  • The Order directs the U.S. Trade Representative and Secretary of Commerce to take action to ensure foreign countries are not engaged in practices that purposefully and unfairly undercut market prices and drive price hikes in the United States.
  • The Order instructs the Administration to communicate price targets to pharmaceutical manufacturers to establish that America, the largest purchaser and funder of prescription drugs in the world, gets the best deal.
  • The Secretary of Health and Human Services will establish a mechanism through which American patients can buy their drugs directly from manufacturers who sell to Americans at a “Most-Favored-Nation” price, bypassing middlemen.
  • If drug manufacturers fail to offer most-favored-nation pricing, the Order directs the Secretary of Health and Human Services to: (1) propose rules that impose most-favored-nation pricing; and (2) take other aggressive measures to significantly reduce the cost of prescription drugs to the American consumer and end anticompetitive practices.
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Just a reminder: when Biden provided a list of drugs that Medicare should negotiate lowered pricing on and when Harris mentioned investigating price gouging during the inflation, there was an outcry from the Republicans about the "free-market", "price-fixing" and socialism. I must have missed the Republican outcry about Trump's assault upon the "free market".

This is another example of performative nonsense. Presidents don't set drug prices and if he tries to do so, drug companies will just threaten to pull their patented drugs from the US market.
 
It just isn't how it works.

The prices we pay in Canada for our drugs don't drive the price up in the US.

In large part it is about how Canada, with universal health care has effectively negotiated deals that of course don't have the hundreds of middlemen adding layer after layer to the cost of meds in the US.

Trump tried something like this the first time and it got batted down in the courts. This will as well.

This was all about not wanting to give Congress a win on drug pricing...to impress upon the people of the US that he alone can fix things using the power of a king.

This is just going to die from HHS not having any power to enact anything. In fact the real agenda given JFKjr. may be to help ensure that drug companies lose business, preferring that A. People Die or/and B. that they turn to quack 'medicines.
 
rareboy said:
...This is just going to die from HHS not having any power to enact anything. In fact the real agenda given JFKjr. may be to help ensure that drug companies lose business, preferring that A. People Die or/and B. that they turn to quack 'medicines.
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A bit of background on the (messy) US system.

When the negotiations were going on for the 2010 Affordable Care Act (ACA), in order to get big Pharma on board with the reforms, the Obama Administration agreed to not negotiate for discounted Medicare D drug pricing. It did impose some taxes on pharmaceutical companies that sell brand name drugs to Medicare/Medicaid.

The 2022 Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) undid some of the ACA restrictions. It allowed Medicare (CMS) to directly negotiate discounted pricing agreements with the pharmaceutical companies.

The drugs that Trump was rambling incoherently about - GLP1 inhibitor drugs (Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, et al)- are brand name drugs that cost about $1,000 per month. The Biden Administration was looking into having Medicare/Medicaid cover these drugs in certain circumstances but the Trump Administration undid the Biden Administrations proposals! In fact, Trump undid other Biden Administration actions that were intended to make drugs cheaper for Medicare/Medicaid recipients.

Since the 2022 IRA already allowed Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate for better drug prices (much like the UK and Canada currently do), that leaves the private market. Presidents don't have the legal authority to permanent force drug companies or pharmacy benefit managers to lower their prices. In fact, this concept is an anathema to traditional Republican free market ideology.

What Trump is claiming is that the US pays more because other countries pay less. That's not the case. The US pays more because our private insurance market isolates Americans from how much drugs cost. An executive order isn't going to fix that. It would take an effort from Congress to restructure the market in a way that won't damage the economy in the process. That Congressional action is going to require that Americans throw out most of the current obstructionist Republicans in the Senate. It's also going to take reform of campaign finance since Big Pharma contributed $16,054,355 to politicians (almost 55% to Republicans/45% to Democrats) in 2024 through 116 PACs. The largest Pharma group, PhRMA, gave $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund.

This is another example of populism taking over the former Republican Party. We need to stop referring to it as the Republican Party. It's the Trump Party and the Party is subject to the whims and executive orders of a mentally unwell President. Until Republicans in Congress return to their purported ideas about economic restraint and the role of government, they are a danger to the long-term economic stability of the United States.
 
Kulindahr said:
They haven't been republican since Newt Gingrich.
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It could be argued that both parties have been on an ideological purge spree since the 1990s. It's why terms like "liberal east coast Republican" and "blue dog Democrat" are only found in history books.

The MAGA/Trump takeover of the Republican party has been faster and more dramatic. 6 years ago, we were listing the Rogue's gallery of people who hung out with Trump- like Mike Lindell. Now, that collection of alcoholics, criminals, sexual predators, former porn models and racists are the party.
 
KaraBulut said:
It could be argued that both parties have been on an ideological purge spree since the 1990s. It's why terms like "liberal east coast Republican" and "blue dog Democrat" are only found in history books.

The MAGA/Trump takeover of the Republican party has been faster and more dramatic. 6 years ago, we were listing the Rogue's gallery of people who hung out with Trump- like Mike Lindell. Now, that collection of alcoholics, criminals, sexual predators, former porn models and racists are the party.
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And if they believe in a republic at all, it's the Republic of Venice, where the rich merchants and nobles ran things.
 
I guess they figure that as long as they can intubate a preganant woman and put her on life support until her baby is born
that's fine.


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rareboy said:
I guess they figure that as long as they can intubate a preganant woman and put her on life support until her baby is born
that's fine.


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It didn't seem to get much publicity, but there was a big uptick in stillborn babies among pregnant women who had Covid, because the virus attacks the placenta and cuts off the blood supply to the fetus. There was a fair amount about this locally, and I never understood why there was not a bigger deal made of it. Vaccinating pregnant women help to prevent it.

Mengele Jr and the entire republican fascist mob are on a murderous rampage to kill as many people as they can. They are personified evil.
 
cityboy-stl said:
It didn't seem to get much publicity, but there was a big uptick in stillborn babies among pregnant women who had Covid, because the virus attacks the placenta and cuts off the blood supply to the fetus.
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True.

There's another factor: The mortality of pregnant women with COVID was 14 time higher than in pregnant women without COVID That was the reason for the recommendation for COVID vaccination in pregnant women.

Now that the 99% of people in the US have either had COVID or have been vaccinated for COVID, we don't know whether a pregnant woman contracting COVID is still at high risk. But why would we want to find out by not vaccinating pregnant women?
 
I haven't been able to find comparable charts for Canada or other countries with universal healthcare.

I do know though, that after eliminating the bureaucracy and overheads of private health insurance, provinces like Ontario then moved on to restructure health services, eliminating duplication of hospitals and staff in order to pare the overhead costs to the minimum.

This still continues with mergers to bring several hospitals under a single administrative umbrella and the regionalization of a lot of services like laboraories, cancer care, etc.
 
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