The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    PLEASE READ: To register, turn off your VPN (iPhone users- disable iCloud); you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

Healthcare going forward

On Topic: Healthcare is not moving forward. Wait and compare the stats for morbidity and incapacity/disability prior to this Administration and when Pence leaves office in 4 years. Ironically, POTUS and his gang are decimating their own fucking base.
 
I would note that the reason that single payer works in Canada is because it is the responsibility of each province as well as the Feds.

Canada also moved to VAT to fund its obligations in health in addition to personal and corporate income tax, which effectively means that all citizens contribute to the pool.

The US couldn't even shift to single payer at this point if it wanted to. It can only expand Medicare and try to broaden the risk pool to the greatest extent possible.

The US could develop the public option...but ....nah....that just ain't gonna happen in a country run by the banking/insurance complex.

It just isn't.

Ever.

Going.

To.

Happen.
Medicare works because it is limited to social security recipients so a portion of the monthly benefit can be diverted as premiums for the Medicare coverage. That procedure is not available with respect to others not receiving social security. Medicaid cannot be expanded.
 
Well, if anyone listened to Charles Krauthammer, certainly no "snowflake" liberal , who was on Fucker Carlson's show the other night.... he believes that despite Obamacare's deep flaws the ultimate victory will be for single payer, within the next seven years. He called it essentially inevitable.... whatever concoction Republicans wind up coming up, if they even can get anything to reconcile Senate Republicans with the House GOP, will be tossed aside and the US will join all the other developed nations in the world and move to single payer. This is a serious conservative, not some oddball on the right with a wild, easily dismissive record. I don't agree with him on many issues but he doesn't come from the wacky world of the modern hard right. Saw it linked to in "The Week" online weekly newsmagazine.
 
On Topic: Healthcare is not moving forward. Wait and compare the stats for morbidity and incapacity/disability prior to this Administration and when Pence leaves office in 4 years. Ironically, POTUS and his gang are decimating their own fucking base.

Yes, that's what I think, too. He is screwing over the very people who handed him the election. I'm not sure how fast people will lose their health insurance coverage, but most likely, by the time November 2020 rolls in, his base will be hurting and sick and unable to pay their medical bills, and those states that turned red in the last election will flip back to blue again.

His other promises are mostly going up in smoke-- there will never be a wall built, there will never be a ban on any kind of immigration, and his tax reforms will only end up helping the wealthiest people and all that will trickle down to the masses will be urine.
 
Just so you'll know the number of people that could potentially be affected by what was passed yesterday:

Source

Kaiser Family Foundation's analysis:


If anything similar to the AHCA makes it through the process and the pre-existing condition clause is not restored to the legislation, this will revive discussions about the "public option" again. The for-profit health insurance market will become a more employer-based offering and their market will shrink over time.

I saw that 50 million to 129 million number and it struck me that the GOP has outdone Scrooge: who needs poorhouses? Just let them die!


 
Well, if anyone listened to Charles Krauthammer, certainly no "snowflake" liberal , who was on Fucker Carlson's show the other night.... he believes that despite Obamacare's deep flaws the ultimate victory will be for single payer, within the next seven years. He called it essentially inevitable.... whatever concoction Republicans wind up coming up, if they even can get anything to reconcile Senate Republicans with the House GOP, will be tossed aside and the US will join all the other developed nations in the world and move to single payer. This is a serious conservative, not some oddball on the right with a wild, easily dismissive record. I don't agree with him on many issues but he doesn't come from the wacky world of the modern hard right. Saw it linked to in "The Week" online weekly newsmagazine.

Wow, that coming from him is incredible. I can certainly see where we could combine Medicaid and Medicare into one system and extend coverage to everyone. To pay for it, they need to remove the current income caps they have on FICA and let the rich people actually pay their fair share. It makes no sense for a tax based on income to have any cap at all. That being said, I think we should have a flat tax for everyone, and there should be no deductions and no exemptions allowed. Everyone would pay into it and everyone would have a stake in the system.
 
I'm sorry but that seems to read to me that only government payments can cover the cost and that Medicaid was the tool. I would agree with that sentiment if you improve the tool to do the job properly.

He's wrong, BTW, with his "it's available to those who do not have assets": the cutoff for Medicaid being free is low enough that it ends up taking assets from people who really don't have any. A government program that makes people's children homeless in order to help the parents is hardly something to praise.
 
Which takes me to the point I made about the Charles Krauthammer interview on FOX with the awful Fucker Carlson... ordinarily I'd never watch anything anymore on the FOX conservative opinion shows at night especially. But when a noted non crackpot type conservative(admittedly getting rarer and rarer these days) like him basically say within seven years it will be an inevitability we are going to single payer like the rest of the developed world, it's something VERY compelling. As much as the awful bastards on the right, particular the "Freedom Caucus" bleat against "socialized medicine"... it's the current patchwork, still private dominated system that's in its death throes.
 
No it is you who fail to understand. Suppose you call an insurance company and say; "my house is on fire, so now I want to buy an insurance policy. I will pay you a few hundred dollars for the first premium and you can build a new house for me". Can you see something wrong with that?
So instead you call the health insurance company and say: "I have not needed health insurance before, but now I heed a coronary by pass. I will pay a few hundred dollars for the first premium and you can pay for my $150,000 operation."
Insurance companies insure against risk, insuring healthy people and charging premiums based on the statistical probability that some will become ill in the next year.
But none of this works if the company undertakes to "insure" people who are already ill. It is not a matter of risk, but of certainty. If that expense is passed to other insureds, they must pay that burden on top of the premium based on their own risk. Who could afford it? How compute the premium? Who can guess how many people with huge expenses will want policies? And why would any healthy person buy insurance if he can wait until he is sick?

Cute bit of story-telling, but it isn't relevant to the discussion. You're arguing from the position that selfishness and greed should be allowed to manipulate the system, which is exactly what everyone else here is opposing. Requiring insurance companies to cover everyone doesn't fit your little tale at all because they would already have insurance.

All you really do is demonstrate how immoral the insurance business is.
 
One modification to this scenario...

Pre-existing condition was seldom used proactively by the payers. It was almost always used retroactively.

So, in your auto accident scenario, it would be like you being in an accident where you were injured. Your hospital bill was $250,000. After receiving the bill, the auto insurance company then requests your driver record from the State and they find that you were in an auto accident 20 years ago. They then retroactively cancel your insurance and deny your current claim because you had a pre-existing accident.

Anything can be a pre-existing condition. Your physicians have you sign a "Release of Information" document that allows your insurance company to request your records without your knowledge or specific consent. If you get cancer, your insurance company might request those records and assign them to a reviewer. If they were to find a positive HIV test or that you were on a medication as a child that was associated with cancer, they can deny your claim citing a "pre-existing condition". Because their "reviews" were usually triggered after diagnosis with a serious illness or after a medication was prescribed for prevention of a recurrence, the patient is left uninsured.

Something that got lost in the flurry of regular repeal that the Republican Congress has been busy with while Trump keeps everyone distracted is a bill that one of my favorite Congresspersons, Rep Virginia Foxx of North Carolina, slipped under the radar. Thanks to Mrs Foxx's efforts, if you refuse to submit and provide genetic testing results to your employer, your employer has the right to increase your insurance premiums. By providing your DNA testing results to your employer, you will open new possibilities for pre-existing conditions that you didn't even know you had.

This reminds me of one of the letters I got from the Social Security disability people. It took six pages of verbiage to get to the point that they were denying a disability claim. I sent it to my U.S. senator and asked if it said what it seemed to, and they agreed that what it boiled down to was that because my disability began before I applied for benefits, I couldn't get benefits.
 
Which takes me to the point I made about the Charles Krauthammer interview on FOX with the awful Fucker Carlson... ordinarily I'd never watch anything anymore on the FOX conservative opinion shows at night especially. But when a noted non crackpot type conservative(admittedly getting rarer and rarer these days) like him basically say within seven years it will be an inevitability we are going to single payer like the rest of the developed world, it's something VERY compelling.

It makes one wonder if the conspiracy theory about Obamacare being designed to fail is true. Stop and think of the beauty of that, the ACA is really the most likely and only workable 'conservative' approach national healthcare, which is why it came out of conservative think tanks in the first place. Obama has essentially given the American people a taste of what everyone else has in the way of a national health care system and he has the conservatives actively attacking and proving that a conservative free market approach won't work! It's brilliant. As the numbers are showing the American people now want some sort of national healthcare, they just want one that is cheaper, single payer will be the eventual answer.
 
Horse-puckey.

They will cheerfully rescind coverage for the 47-year-old guy with cancer, because they find that he failed to disclose that he had acne in his teenage years.

And they get away with that because they spend a chunk of everyone's premiums on having fast-talking lawyers whose expertise lies in making the litigation process so expensive that almost no one can afford to challenge their ruling.

Though more realistically they won't point to acne, but to smoke inhaled from campfires or drinking coffee before age eighteen, something that they can claim caused the cancer but wasn't disclosed... kind of like the guy who tried suing my dad when he slipped on our front steps, despite the sign saying "Keep Off!" because the sign didn't disclose that there was ice on the steps (if my dad hadn't had one of the area's sharpest attorneys as a friend he got together with over coffee three or four times a week, the case would have gone forward, too).
 
I would note that the reason that single payer works in Canada is because it is the responsibility of each province as well as the Feds.

Canada also moved to VAT to fund its obligations in health in addition to personal and corporate income tax, which effectively means that all citizens contribute to the pool.

The US couldn't even shift to single payer at this point if it wanted to. It can only expand Medicare and try to broaden the risk pool to the greatest extent possible.

The US could develop the public option...but ....nah....that just ain't gonna happen in a country run by the banking/insurance complex.

It just isn't.

Ever.

Going.

To.

Happen.

About the only way to accomplish it would be what my dad argued as the only way: require every citizen and legal resident to do two years of national service, whether in the military or Peace Corps or Americorps or whatever; they would get medical coverage as government employees while serving and it would continue after because they would qualify as veterans. That way it would be phased in as everyone at age eighteen enrolled in national service. Under existing regulations anyone thirty-five or under would also be able to enroll in a two-year term of national service and get covered that way -- but everyone over thirty-five would be stuck with the present messy system.

My dad's lawyer friend, back when Hillary first tried to achieve a national health care system, argued for everyone who attended college or trade school to be covered, and if they finished a two-year program continue to be covered by "national alumni insurance". But again, a large chunk of the populace would be left out.
 
Well, if anyone listened to Charles Krauthammer, certainly no "snowflake" liberal , who was on Fucker Carlson's show the other night.... he believes that despite Obamacare's deep flaws the ultimate victory will be for single payer, within the next seven years. He called it essentially inevitable.... whatever concoction Republicans wind up coming up, if they even can get anything to reconcile Senate Republicans with the House GOP, will be tossed aside and the US will join all the other developed nations in the world and move to single payer. This is a serious conservative, not some oddball on the right with a wild, easily dismissive record. I don't agree with him on many issues but he doesn't come from the wacky world of the modern hard right. Saw it linked to in "The Week" online weekly newsmagazine.

I tend to agree. I see the current antics of the House GOP as serving to scare people enough that millions who would otherwise not favor a single-payer system will some to do so if only to stop the politicians from changing the rules every new election or so with the result that they may have insurance one year, two years later Congress could strip it away.
 
Wow, that coming from him is incredible. I can certainly see where we could combine Medicaid and Medicare into one system and extend coverage to everyone. To pay for it, they need to remove the current income caps they have on FICA and let the rich people actually pay their fair share. It makes no sense for a tax based on income to have any cap at all. That being said, I think we should have a flat tax for everyone, and there should be no deductions and no exemptions allowed. Everyone would pay into it and everyone would have a stake in the system.

A no-exemption tax system would be immoral, because it would take money away from people who don't really have enough to begin with. The individual exemption should be at least the federal poverty number, so anyone living below the poverty level doesn't get hit. Those on the bottom already pay lots of other taxes and fees, so letting them off the hook on federal income tax is just sensible.
 
It makes one wonder if the conspiracy theory about Obamacare being designed to fail is true. Stop and think of the beauty of that, the ACA is really the most likely and only workable 'conservative' approach national healthcare, which is why it came out of conservative think tanks in the first place. Obama has essentially given the American people a taste of what everyone else has in the way of a national health care system and he has the conservatives actively attacking and proving that a conservative free market approach won't work! It's brilliant. As the numbers are showing the American people now want some sort of national healthcare, they just want one that is cheaper, single payer will be the eventual answer.

I heard a Milton Friedman style economist argue for a single-payer system on the grounds that public health is a common asset. Given that Friedman argued for a reverse income tax for those on the low end of the scale, that's not as surprising as it seems at first take.
 
It makes one wonder if the conspiracy theory about Obamacare being designed to fail is true. Stop and think of the beauty of that, the ACA is really the most likely and only workable 'conservative' approach national healthcare, which is why it came out of conservative think tanks in the first place. Obama has essentially given the American people a taste of what everyone else has in the way of a national health care system and he has the conservatives actively attacking and proving that a conservative free market approach won't work! It's brilliant. As the numbers are showing the American people now want some sort of national healthcare, they just want one that is cheaper, single payer will be the eventual answer.
Yep... whether it's Medicare/Medicaid expansion or a fully new public system altogether(though that would probably be more doubtful than the first option) a truly conservative market approach just won't work. It's amazing how hard the right has been against "Obamacare" since it stems largely from the conservative/libertarian Heritage Foundation and the Mitt Romney administration's own health insurance initiative when he was governor of Massachusetts... the only direction they seem to be interested in going is that which would have precluded millions from even receiving the deeply flawed coverage available under Obamacare(properly of course, the Affordable Care Act or ACA) which is hardly a beneficial solution. I do know that the Republicans were unwilling to come to the table at all about helping make the ACA better. We got a flawed plan because it was the best option available to the Obama Administration... but was ingenious because it was so flawed and the right wing of the GOP just couldn't get the ACA out of their heads, spooked about its non-existent "socialized medicine". They got what they kinda wanted in the House(though the whole experience of rashly pushing a bill hardly any really understood or read through, far less honestly vetted and presented than the ACA put Trump and his GOP cronies in new heights of unmitigated gall and hypocrisy).. but the Senate essentially wants the ACA revived under a whole new name and branding. The "Freedom Caucus" asshats will never go along with the Senate's reworking of their bill.. even if something passes to save face, this is going to blow up bigly on the GOP as an issue and after seeing that disgraceful "victory" garden party on the White House lawn, will be so happy on the day the public option becomes a reality however long it takes. I feel really optimistic it truly will be sooner rather than later with the Charles Krauthammer statements ... coming from him, that day seems a hell of a lot more probable, not merely possible.
 
About the only way to accomplish it would be what my dad argued as the only way: require every citizen and legal resident to do two years of national service, whether in the military or Peace Corps or Americorps or whatever; they would get medical coverage as government employees while serving and it would continue after because they would qualify as veterans. That way it would be phased in as everyone at age eighteen enrolled in national service. Under existing regulations anyone thirty-five or under would also be able to enroll in a two-year term of national service and get covered that way -- but everyone over thirty-five would be stuck with the present messy system.

My dad's lawyer friend, back when Hillary first tried to achieve a national health care system, argued for everyone who attended college or trade school to be covered, and if they finished a two-year program continue to be covered by "national alumni insurance". But again, a large chunk of the populace would be left out.
Fortunately the Constitution prevents your totalitarian schemes such as mandatory national service, involuntary servitude and deprivation of liberty without due process. No, military draft is not a precedent, since the constitution specifically authorizes the raising of armies and a navy, which implies a draft if necessary.
 
I would note that the reason that single payer works in Canada is because it is the responsibility of each province as well as the Feds.

Canada also moved to VAT to fund its obligations in health in addition to personal and corporate income tax, which effectively means that all citizens contribute to the pool.

The US couldn't even shift to single payer at this point if it wanted to. It can only expand Medicare and try to broaden the risk pool to the greatest extent possible.

The US could develop the public option...but ....nah....that just ain't gonna happen in a country run by the banking/insurance complex.

It just isn't.

Ever.

Going.

To.

Happen.
You may be right and what you described, provincial controls, VAT, etc., I would enthusiastically endorse that approach here, as I consider myself a conservative who favours broad state autonomy in such matters. I just believe health care is a right under natural law, not a privilege. As for expanding Medicare, my understanding is that is how the Canadians did it; slowly expanding Medicare, (As it is also called in Canada.) under federal guidance and assistance with provincial initiates as well, to eventual universal coverage.
 
Well, not exactly. Dropping the public option was a negotiating point to get private insurance companies to support the legislation.

One of the problems with the ACA was the year that was spent getting various special interest groups to support the legislation. In order to get the insurance lobby on board, they dropped its biggest competition: a government insurance program that would have provided better cost control, lower premiums and better coverage than the offerings of the big payers like BCBS, United Healthcare, Cigna, etc.

If there's anyone to blame for killing the public option, it's Max Baucus and Jim Messina. Remember Ted Kennedy was expected to push the legislation in the Senate. When Kennedy was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, Baucus became the major player. Baucus had received millions in donations from the insurance industry and many of his former Senate aides went to work in the insurance industry.


It wasn't covered much at the time but there was a protest in one of the Senate hearings where liberal activists interrupted the proceedings to protest the fact that the public option wasn't being considered. Baucus had them arrested.

Further reading:
Thank you for your response. It was very informative and I don't disagree with it, necessarily. I actually think that the real stumbling block in the US was not only differing public attitudes and trust in government, but our differing party systems. As you point out, in the US, our system is much more consultative and has been so hamstrung with the widening political division, Left/Right, because of that fact. We also have a very weak party system were it is more like 535 individuals who run and rely on their personal ties to special interests whereas Canada as a parliamentary, party rule system, where the party is the most important entity of a campaign, and once in power, MP's are beholden to the party and it's leadership, much more than they are to any single special interests.
 
Back
Top