High gun ownership does equal high gun violence -UN Report

[HenryReardon]

Look Henry. If you can find a way that physically prevents anyone from being able to commit a homocide with a gun, it is STILL not going to see you reduce your gun deaths to as low as the rest of the developed world (minus mexico with its unique problems). This is because guns are an easy option for suiciders. Is it not worth getting rid of guns to protect people from harm to themselves as well as other people? Kids in the US are 13 times more likely to die because of access to guns, than their industrialised world counterparts.
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So what? Gun ownership is one of our basic rights and is likely to remain so.

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Yep. Now lets blame those Muslims for everything. Including the Kenyan Muslim Atheist Socialist in office right now....

Deliberately missing the point, as usual.

 

[Rolyo85]

So what? Gun ownership is one of our basic rights and is likely to remain so.

"Meh, that's how it is. Whatevs."

You know, that's sorta what slave-owners were saying too. Didn't work well for them.

 

[itsmejeff]

Except insulting people isn't a way to prove some non-existent and false point. Crime rates (and violent crime rates) are lower in most of Europe compared to the US. The post has been reported. Oh and Japan has a much lower crime rate.

What insult? you are wrong. io9.com/5933173/three-strange-theories-about-why-americas-crime-rate-is-so-low

Crime in the us is already declining. It has been for a long time. I know that liberals hate facts, but that is the truth. The resins are not even known as to why. It was thought to be economic, but crime rates actually dropped during the recession. The causes are not known.

Crime rates in Europe are increasing while they decrease in the us. Japan is a special case. It is a much more socially advanced--though rape happy--society. Japanese culture celebrates suicide. It allows losers to have an out with honor. The west considers suicide to be a sign of mental illness. Suicide booths would made everyone much happier and reduce violence.

Total nonsense. There is no desire "to strip freedom".

you want to institutionalize people who are not a threat to others. That is stripping freedom. Self harm is always acceptable.

 

[xbuzzerx]

What insult? you are wrong. io9.com/5933173/three-strange-theories-about-why-americas-crime-rate-is-so-low

Crime in the us is already declining. It has been for a long time. I know that liberals hate facts, but that is the truth. The resins are not even known as to why. It was thought to be economic, but crime rates actually dropped during the recession. The causes are not known.

Crime rates in Europe are increasing while they decrease in the us. Japan is a special case. It is a much more socially advanced--though rape happy--society. Japanese culture celebrates suicide. It allows losers to have an out with honor. The west considers suicide to be a sign of mental illness. Suicide booths would made everyone much happier and reduce violence.


you want to institutionalize people who are not a threat to others. That is stripping freedom. Self harm is always acceptable.

A statement like "US crime is decreasing while crime in Europe is increasing" is worthless in a situation where what we're talking about are murders and gun deaths, not the entire volume of crime, and also worthless when our violent gun death rate is 3-4x higher than in Europe.

 

[itsmejeff]

majority of gun deaths are suicides. All people have a right to die. Always. I think an exit bag is the better method (my method of choice), but I can force others to choose my method of death.

homicides by firearms generally involve people with a criminal record killing other person with a criminal record. normals die too, but most regular people do not have guns around to attempt to kill someone (murders are rarely planned, unlike the ones you see on television).

Likelihood of the average person being shot is incredibly small. it just does not happen much. And, if you are murdered, it will be someone you know most likely. You will not see it coming.

 

[bankside]

I have no ethical problem with self-directed euthanasia, assisted or not. I also have no ethical problem with preventing self-harm against the will of those who would do that. There is no right to self harm. It's a different concept from euthanasia.

 

[Kulindahr]

Our homicide rate is so much higher than any other developed country it is shocking. Much of the reason is our unregulated gun purchase system and the fact that regulation is patch work among the states instead of national. Our gun laws and gun culture, and culture of violence, is a national disgrace.

Same old lie... it doesn't improve with age.

 

[Kulindahr]

And i'm certain that access to guns from the US plays a pivotal role in the ranking of many of your regional neighbours who are higher up that list.

Very few weapons from the US get to those countries -- they get far more from each others' militaries, which leak guns like a gum machine 'leaks' gumballs.

 

[Kulindahr]

Durango, reality is above the US Constitution. Reason is above the US Constitution. The remaining children of Sandy Hook are above the US Constitution. The Second Amendment isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

The Second Amendment is reality: any human being denied the right to choose his/her means of self-defense has been declared to be livestock.

 

[Kulindahr]

That's precisely the reason we can't have a rational discourse about guns while the NRA dictates the pro-gun side of the debate. They oppose everything on the slippery slope that "well we know what you libs REALLY want is to take them all." So it doesn't matter what's proposed, how sensible it is or how limited it is-- they're against it because they "know" the next step is confiscation.

Leaders of the anti-gun organizations are on record that their goal is to take away all guns. Since liberals so blithely rely on those organizations for talking points, it is reasonable to assume they have the same goal.

 

[Kulindahr]

WEll the NRA is just filled with a bunch of conservative, red-neck, inbread, lunatics that want their own constitutional rights but deny it to others. They can go suck a fuck for all I care . I happen to be one of those people who believe that aslippery slope argument is a legitimate stance in most cases, (if applied correctly). Politics has always worked on trying to change things slowly, starting with small steps to ultimately reach a big goal.

Personally, I don't care if every gun were taken out every American's hand. I know that may be unconstituational of me to say, but I think the constitution is a crap document

So your view of government is that the uniformed folks with guns are righteous, and the rest of us are property.

 

[tigerfan482]

Very few weapons from the US get to those countries -- they get far more from each others' militaries, which leak guns like a gum machine 'leaks' gumballs.

Where do you think those militaries get their firearms? The United States is the world's largest exporter of firearms.

The Second Amendment is reality: any human being denied the right to choose his/her means of self-defense has been declared to be livestock.

That's a loose interpretation of it and of course I disagree. You can have laws regulating or limiting access to guns the same as you can have the same regulations for precision guided missiles or NBC weapons.

Leaders of the anti-gun organizations are on record that their goal is to take away all guns. Since liberals so blithely rely on those organizations for talking points, it is reasonable to assume they have the same goal.

Do you have any proof of any of this? I've not seen one piece of legislation proposed or introduced that aims to strip all weapons away from citizens.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well the NRA isn't filled with brainiacs. Nevertheless, I don't believe it's going to prevent anything even if it's passed. I guess time will tell. I just feel that these regulations are just dancing around the problem, sweeping dirt under the rug and calling the house clean. If you want any serious change at any time, you have to change people. That's not done by writing on a peice of paper.

Here is why comparing the US to those 'third world' countries is legitimate: what the US shares with them and not with Europe et al is a culture that believes that violence is a legitimate avenue to decision-making.

Regarding the NRA, I've been both disgusted and amused at the whole idea of the NICS being used for private sales. The reason is simple: so long as it was to be voluntary, the NRA has fought to open the NICS to private sales, but now that it's proposed being mandatory they oppose it... while on the flip side, anti-gunners have fought opening the NICS to private sellers until their recent flip-flop. What Schumer, et al ought to do is just call the NRA on what they've been proposing, namely letting private sellers use the NICS. Will that get universal coverage? No, but the figures show that better than four-fifths of all private sellers would use the system, a number that would grow with time.

 

[Rolyo85]

The Second Amendment is reality: any human being denied the right to choose his/her means of self-defense has been declared to be livestock.

Every time you say that, you insult directly me, the culture I come from, and the entire continent that it's a part of. And every time I point that out, you get silent. It's really depressing

 

[Kulindahr]

Sure, but do you think that someone extremely deranged will be incapable of getting their hands on such weapons? The school shooting guy didn't even use his guns. I've heard that often times, those guns aren't even registered to the murderer. I'm not entirely sure if that's accurate, but I have absolutely no reason to believe that this law will make much of an impact. Maybe I'm wrong, but meh.

Quite so. This is where Congress ought to apply its authority to discipline the militia (i.e. provide discipline for) and require that all firearms not actually being carried or explicitly made available for self- or home defense must be stored securely, since a well-regulated militia doesn't just leave firearms sitting around.

 

[Rolyo85]

Leaders of the anti-gun organizations are on record that their goal is to take away all guns. Since liberals so blithely rely on those organizations for talking points, it is reasonable to assume they have the same goal.

What they want is irrelevant. What matters is - as buzzer said - whether the PARTICULAR steps are a good idea or not. When the idea is no longer good, it will not be supported and it will not be implemented.

 

[Kulindahr]

Total nonsense. There is no desire "to strip freedom". Gun rights aren't part of freedom.

I'll accept that if you'll concede that speaking one's mind, supporting the candidate of one's choice, buying and selling at an agreed price, getting together to insist the government clean up its act, not having to testify against yourself, and a lot more are also not part of freedom.

 

[Kulindahr]

A statement like "US crime is decreasing while crime in Europe is increasing" is worthless in a situation where what we're talking about are murders and gun deaths, not the entire volume of crime, and also worthless when our violent gun death rate is 3-4x higher than in Europe.

If you don't look at the whole array of crime, you're avoiding the real issue.

 

[Rolyo85]

I'll accept that if you'll concede that speaking one's mind, supporting the candidate of one's choice, buying and selling at an agreed price, getting together to insist the government clean up its act, not having to testify against yourself, and a lot more are also not part of freedom.

And I'm sure we'll concede that when you show us a SINGLE first world country that bemoans its lack of guns and feels its freedom stolen.

 

[Kulindahr]

If we find the need to "defend" ourselves with guns we're living in our own prisons of fear.

No, it just means we read and/or watch the news.