Hillary says she will help struggling Americans. Why Should We Believe that she would?

[Hankerin1075]

I'm not pitting anybody against each other. The fact is an EMT makes 1495 per hour. Average. They should damn well make more. They should make way more than some loser changing my sheets.

 

[gsdx]

^ Wage unfairness for the EMT is not the issue here. The same can be said for teachers and police officers. They all deserve much more money than they are paid.

The issue here is that Trump is importing workers from other countries and paying them little more than the same wages that McDonald's pays their burger-slingers for cleaning a luxury 'hotel' and then campaigning about how horrible that is the his America and stating that he will put a stop to it. There are thousands of Americans who would do the job, but he would have to pay them a more reasonable salary. As stated earlier, he's hired around 250 people to work at Mar-A-Lago, and only 4 of them have been American citizens, and you can bet your ass that those 4 Americans aren't cleaning toilets or making omelets for breakfast guests. Rest assured. They're undoubtedly in supervisory positions.

The man is a hypocrite of enormous proportions.

 

[Kabluey]

What are you talking about? 13 an hour is darn good for vacuuming floors. Try some hard labor every once in a while. You might get 14. Don't be so obtuse.

You're not even making sense at this point. Hard work equals 14 per hour?
How is someone supposed to raise a kid on that, get sick on that, fix the car on that?
An economy that depends on wages that low while demanding a higher level of spending by citizens to function is broken.

Claiming 13 an hour is 'darn good' might be true in the third world. But in the developed world, it's miserable. It's less than the minimum in some.

 

[Hankerin1075]

You're not even making sense at this point. Hard work equals 14 per hour?
How is someone supposed to raise a kid on that, get sick on that, fix the car on that?
An economy that depends on wages that low while demanding a higher level of spending by citizens to function is broken.

Claiming 13 an hour is 'darn good' might be true in the third world. But in the developed world, it's miserable. It's less than the minimum in some.

That's almost double the minimum. If you want more money, make yourself worth more money. I can't live very well on those wages so I make myself worth more than that to my employer. That's how it works.

 

[Benvolio]

^ Wage unfairness for the EMT is not the issue here. The same can be said for teachers and police officers. They all deserve much more money than they are paid.

The issue here is that Trump is importing workers from other countries and paying them little more than the same wages that McDonald's pays their burger-slingers for cleaning a luxury 'hotel' and then campaigning about how horrible that is the his America and stating that he will put a stop to it. There are thousands of Americans who would do the job, but he would have to pay them a more reasonable salary. As stated earlier, he's hired around 250 people to work at Mar-A-Lago, and only 4 of them have been American citizens, and you can bet your ass that those 4 Americans aren't cleaning toilets or making omelets for breakfast guests. Rest assured. They're undoubtedly in supervisory positions.

The man is a hypocrite of enormous proportions.

OK, but Hillary is not less hypocritical in claiming that she will help struggling Americans while promising to continue immigration and amnesty. How does immigration help Americans, struggling or otherwize? Of course it does not and is not intended to.

 

[Hankerin1075]

dude you have your poles reversed. both these kinds of workers are underpaid, the wealth gap is huge.

but its really terrorizing for you to believe that because some workers belong to unions and ORGANIZE to FIGHT for higher wages, and many in America are paid less for more "important jobs" then you are doing nothing more than inciting class warfare between groups of poor working class people.

If you have a problem with people doing work for low wages you need to help ALL people who have low wages and stop thinking about yourself for a change.

Stop pitting low wage workers against each other when the common enemy is the wealthy, YOU MIGHT BE BETTER OFF!

Listen to yourself , IF YOU CAN.

Wealthy people are the enemy? The wealthy pay your salary and mine. The idiots in charge are wealthy, but that doesn't mean that being wealthy is a bad thing. Wealth has no inherent evil associated with it. I'd like to have a little money someday. When I do, I damn sure don't expect to be ridiculed or hated because of all my hard work.

 

[Kabluey]

That's almost double the minimum. If you want more money, make yourself worth more money. I can't live very well on those wages so I make myself worth more than that to my employer. That's how it works.

But there will always be the need for these jobs.
You're saying it's fine that certain American employers use people who do not get paid enough to live on.
That's a bit evil, really.

 

[Kabluey]

Wealthy people are the enemy? The wealthy pay your salary and mine. The idiots in charge are wealthy, but that doesn't mean that being wealthy is a bad thing. Wealth has no inherent evil associated with it. I'd like to have a little money someday. When I do, I damn sure don't expect to be ridiculed or hated because of all my hard work.

The wealthy get their money from the excess profit they draw from the economy. In the case of somewhere like Walmart, it's not really that Waltons who are paying the employees, it's the customers.

The only wealthy people who are seen as the enemy of the rest of society are those who act as though society is their enemy by undermining democracy, competition, labour, safety and the environment.
They need no protection or defending by the aspirational poor.

 

[Hankerin1075]

But there will always be the need for these jobs.
You're saying it's fine that certain American employers use people who do not get paid enough to live on.
That's a bit evil, really.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that jobs like those should pay less than more specialized/difficult jobs.

 

[Hankerin1075]

The wealthy get their money from the excess profit they draw from the economy. In the case of somewhere like Walmart, it's not really that Waltons who are paying the employees, it's the customers.

The only wealthy people who are seen as the enemy of the rest of society are those who act as though society is their enemy by undermining democracy, competition, labour, safety and the environment.
They need no protection or defending by the aspirational poor.

I agree with most of this statement. I don't know what "excess profits" are exactly but I am with you for the most part. If I make $10 more than all my monthly bills, is that excess money? What exactly do you see as excessive? How is it your place to decide?

 

[kallipolis]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that jobs like those should pay less than more specialized/difficult jobs.

How is it your place to decide?

 

[Hankerin1075]

How is it your place to decide?

Hilarious. The market decides, as it should, as you already know.

 

[kallipolis]

Hilarious. The market decides, as it should, as you already know.

You are not the market. One may well ask why a professional football player should receive more money than a physician, or a surgeon. That's how the cookie crumbles. Life's very, very unfair.

 

[Benvolio]

You are not the market. One may well ask why a professional football player should receive more money than a physician, or a surgeon. That's how the cookie crumbles. Life's very, very unfair.

It is not unfair. The player provides a service for millions of individuals and collects a small amount from each. The physician serves one at a time, but in the US is well paid for it. Both are rewarded by the market in proportion to the scarcity of their talent. Supply and demand. While liberals would like to be the dictators according to their biases and need for votes, in the end the market is the fairest system.

 

[Kabluey]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that jobs like those should pay less than more specialized/difficult jobs.

But not enough to live on.

 

[kallipolis]

The market is unfair for it rewards with enormous amounts of cash those who provide society with entertainment, whereas a physician, or surgeon providing health care services for the sick, infirm, and dying receives much, much less. Patently this is unfair.

The market is unfair, and that is a fact of life we all have to live with.

 

[Kabluey]

I agree with most of this statement. I don't know what "excess profits" are exactly but I am with you for the most part. If I make $10 more than all my monthly bills, is that excess money? What exactly do you see as excessive? How is it your place to decide?

Your ten dollars would not.

Objectionable excess profits are generally those that are gained in excess of regular returns on capital gained through illegal behaviour (for example cartels, predatory pricing, etc).

 

[gsdx]

OK, but Hillary is not less hypocritical in claiming that she will help struggling Americans while promising to continue immigration and amnesty. How does immigration help Americans, struggling or otherwize? Of course it does not and is not intended to.

You can't be hypocritical for something that hasn't happened yet. If she is elected and does the opposite, then that would be hypocritical of her. Trump is doing it as we speak. That makes him a hypocrite now.

 

[Hankerin1075]

But not enough to live on.

If you only have a worth of ten bucks, you should probably get a second job.

 

[Benvolio]

The market is unfair for it rewards with enormous amounts of cash those who provide society with entertainment, whereas a physician, or surgeon providing health care services for the sick, infirm, and dying receives much, much less. Patently this is unfair.

The market is unfair, and that is a fact of life we all have to live with.

That might be true with socialized medicine with the government regulating fees, resulting in the unfairness you describe. But in the US, doctors tend to have very good incomes and have the freedom to change their practices and locations. It would be unfair if the government did not allow tne football player to make the most of his rare talent. No one forces people to buy tickets.