Hillary says she will help struggling Americans. Why Should We Believe that she would?

[jbrown329]

Most higher earners utilise tax avoidance schemes drawn up by their accountants, to avoid paying taxes.

I draw your attention to Apple Inc. that has managed to land itself with a 13 Billion Euro tax bill imposed by the European Union, the result of Apple Inc, filing its EU wide profits in Ireland at an attractively low rate, through an agreement with the Irish Government.

I heard that it was something like .05%, I could be wrong. It might have been a smidgen higher.

 

[kallipolis]

I heard that it was something like .05%, I could be wrong. It might have been a smidgen higher.

In addition to Apple's failure to pay due tax in the EU on its profits accrued throught its EU sales, there is the old matter of using Ireland to park the profits of its USA sales:

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0521/451564-apple-tax-arrangements/

I quote:

Apple has confirmed that two of its Irish subsidiaries pay around 2% in tax, however the company rejected claims that its Irish operation was used to avoid liabilities in the US.

Appearing before a US Senate hearing on tax, Apple's head of tax policy Phillip Bullock confirmed that two Irish subsidiaries – Apple Operations Europe and Apple Sales International – paid approximately 2% in tax.

When asked about its reasons for operating in Ireland, CEO Tim Cook said that the company had received a “tax incentive arrangement” as part of its decision to establish here in 1980.

 

[Hankerin1075]

Then never go to a grocery store. Don't stop at a convenience store. Never stop for fast food. Never go to a restaurant. Because they couldn't function without those low wage workers.

In 1985, I could exist on minimum wage. Not possible today. Rent has gone up a minimum of 600%. Food/utility costs have went up exponentially. Minimum wage has only doubled.

I don't get what you are trying to say. What does me shopping for groceries have to do with any of this. Obviously I buy groceries and gas. Sometimes I buy fast food. Are you saying I shouldn't?

 

[kallipolis]

I heard that it was something like .05%, I could be wrong. It might have been a smidgen higher.

Ireland is now appealing the EU decision:

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ernment-split-apple-tax-bill-immediate-appeal

The article includes a map showing the tax rates in each EU country. Ireland's tax rate is attractive.

 

[jbrown329]

I don't get what you are trying to say. What does me shopping for groceries have to do with any of this. Obviously I buy groceries and gas. Sometimes I buy fast food. Are you saying I shouldn't?

Because those people should work for pennies. Why help them make a living?

 

[Hankerin1075]

Because those people should work for pennies. Why help them make a living?

They should be paid every penny they earn. No more, no less. Same as me and you.

 

[jbrown329]

They should be paid every penny they earn. No more, no less. Same as me and you.

In 1985 the federal minimum wage was $3.35hr. 31yrs later it's $7.25hr. In 1985 I paid $120 for a studio apartment. That same apartment goes for $500 today. In 1992 my ex and I rented a 2 bedroom house with a full basement on a corner lot (in a decent neighborhood) 2 blocks from 2 different grocery stores and it was $310 a month. That same house today would rent somewhere in the neighborhood of $800 a month, if not more.

 

[luckynumbah7]

They should be paid every penny they earn. No more, no less. Same as me and you.

My teacher would've had a mini fit explaining that 'me and you' is slang used in intimate situations between friends/family/colleagues or psychologically similar situations between two or more people where the similarities are of a sociological caste; which I suppose gets dumped under colleagues of a different stripe. Interesting try for including someone in the "We earn ours, pat pat pat. and they (that ever amorphous they) earn theirs" but I believe you were more than a little ham-fisted on that one. You lacked both an appropriate lead-in for an 'us-vs-them' and a cemented in-group dynamic for benefit of the doubt leeway. Should've stuck with a 'we' there and changed the sentence structures entirely.

Moneys received for work very often isn't indicative of the stresses and capabilities of what that work entails. Nor are wages received generally indicative of the job being completed adequately. What tends to occur instead is one being paid for the ability to go along to get along, n'let's not forget the ability to both creatively pass the buck along with the blame. Wage discrepancy has little to do with adequate completion to specs of a job or it's complexity, whatever that job happens to be (I've read and discussed work within and without a wide range of professions, there's no lack of incompetence to go with the overfilled bank accounts out-of-country). Seems more to with human behavior and greed. The disparity of pay can also be blamed in a large part on the 'menial job = little-to-no-effort' that gets bandied about. Also, not coincidentally, as people loath feeling residual guilt for fucking others over it's usually considered much better to make excuses for one's excess (and the strive for some of the particulars that go along with it) by considering that everyone else just ....isn't as ethically/morally superior, or learned, or driven. Out of all of 'em, driven is probably my favorite of the lies.

 

[Kabluey]

They should be paid every penny they earn. No more, no less. Same as me and you.

It's about paying a fair cost for the things you buy.
This means employers paying the actual cost of employing workers - like they do for electricity, and lawyers, and advertising time, and rent and land.
They don't often get other inputs for less than cost.

Every state and federal dollar spent on programmes to address the problems of poverty for the working poor is a dollar their employer didn't have to pay.

 

[jbrown329]

At Thanksgiving and Christmas, Walmart sets up barrels for food donations for their 'associates'. Because they don't pay them enough so the employees can't afford to buy the fixings to make the dinners.

 

[luckynumbah7]

It's about paying a fair cost for the things you buy.
This means employers paying the actual cost of employing workers - like they do for electricity, and lawyers, and advertising time, and rent and land.
They don't often get other inputs for less than cost.

Every state and federal dollar spent on programmes to address the problems of poverty for the working poor is a dollar their employer didn't have to pay.

I'm willing to bet 'fair cost' is up for dispute.

 

[Benvolio]

Wages like other prices are determined by supply and demand. If there are a lot of people available and able and willing to do the job, wages will br low. If there are few people available, the pay will be higher. In most jobs, experience helps the person to do a better job, so employers pay more to retain the people. Remember. Average wages in the US are still among the very highest in the world. The percentage of people paid only the minimum wage is low. It could be lower if we chose.

 

[Hankerin1075]

My teacher would've had a mini fit explaining that 'me and you' is slang used in intimate situations between friends/family/colleagues or psychologically similar situations between two or more people where the similarities are of a sociological caste; which I suppose gets dumped under colleagues of a different stripe. Interesting try for including someone in the "We earn ours, pat pat pat. and they (that ever amorphous they) earn theirs" but I believe you were more than a little ham-fisted on that one. You lacked both an appropriate lead-in for an 'us-vs-them' and a cemented in-group dynamic for benefit of the doubt leeway. Should've stuck with a 'we' there and changed the sentence structures entirely.

Moneys received for work very often isn't indicative of the stresses and capabilities of what that work entails. Nor are wages received generally indicative of the job being completed adequately. What tends to occur instead is one being paid for the ability to go along to get along, n'let's not forget the ability to both creatively pass the buck along with the blame. Wage discrepancy has little to do with adequate completion to specs of a job or it's complexity, whatever that job happens to be (I've read and discussed work within and without a wide range of professions, there's no lack of incompetence to go with the overfilled bank accounts out-of-country). Seems more to with human behavior and greed. The disparity of pay can also be blamed in a large part on the 'menial job = little-to-no-effort' that gets bandied about. Also, not coincidentally, as people loath feeling residual guilt for fucking others over it's usually considered much better to make excuses for one's excess (and the strive for some of the particulars that go along with it) by considering that everyone else just ....isn't as ethically/morally superior, or learned, or driven. Out of all of 'em, driven is probably my favorite of the lies.

They as in the ones being talked about by another poster. Us as in us. Simple Simon. You are reading way too much into my post.

 

[jbrown329]

Wages like other prices are determined by supply and demand. If there are a lot of people available and able and willing to do the job, wages will br low. If there are few people available, the pay will be higher. In most jobs, experience helps the person to do a better job, so employers pay more to retain the people. Remember. Average wages in the US are still among the very highest in the world. The percentage of people paid only the minimum wage is low. It could be lower if we chose.

I know, let's round up 50 million people and shove them into camps. Then there will be more jobs. Because your GODS known as corporations have moved MILLIONS of jobs overseas.

 

[gsdx]

Wages like other prices are determined by supply and demand. If there are a lot of people available and able and willing to do the job, wages will br low. If there are few people available, the pay will be higher. In most jobs, experience helps the person to do a better job, so employers pay more to retain the people. Remember. Average wages in the US are still among the very highest in the world. The percentage of people paid only the minimum wage is low. It could be lower if we chose.

Too bad Trump doesn't follow those rules. He brings in his own across-the-border workers so he can pay them as little as possible. Florida has thousands of people willing and able to do the jobs, but he won't hire them.

 

[luckynumbah7]

They as in the ones being talked about by another poster. Us as in us. Simple Simon. You are reading way too much into my post.

I think I'll wait for another reiteration of your "We're already paid what we're owed." I hear it means more if you just keep repeating it.

Unless you'd like to change your opinion, in which case I'm all ears, figuratively speakin'.

So is it choice A or choice B?

 

[Hankerin1075]

I think I'll wait for another reiteration of your "We're already paid what we're owed." I hear it means more if you just keep repeating it.

Unless you'd like to change your opinion, in which case I'm all ears, figuratively speakin'.

So is it choice A or choice B?

I don't understand what you mean. I have been very clear with every response. There are reasons for different wages. There are different types of people with different skill sets. Surely you don't think everyone deserves the same pay.

 

[Kabluey]

Wages like other prices are determined by supply and demand. If there are a lot of people available and able and willing to do the job, wages will br low. If there are few people available, the pay will be higher. In most jobs, experience helps the person to do a better job, so employers pay more to retain the people. Remember. Average wages in the US are still among the very highest in the world. The percentage of people paid only the minimum wage is low. It could be lower if we chose.

Average wages are misleading.
A town of 100 people with a single billion dollar earner might have an average wage of $10,000,000, but a median of just $10,000.

Wages, like everything else in the world have a basic cost.
If you pay less than the cost of goods or services (including employment) then that cost is borne by someone else.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I don't understand what you mean. I have been very clear with every response. There are reasons for different wages. There are different types of people with different skill sets. Surely you don't think everyone deserves the same pay.

You've been very clear, yes. That's why I asked the question, as it seemed to me you dislike (and so didn't) address the inequities of work vs output vs fair compensation for regarding a roof and one's daily bread. You implied along current societal assumptions, those which conveniently ignore earning money that cover basic necessities by labor. But others have considerably more patience for describing the particularly peculiar reality of the conceptualization of fair exchange than I do.

I dislike people's ability to whisper stock reasonings that have no actual thought attached to them; they're conveniently never, ever expounded upon. One is supposed to knowingly nod their head that such and such is so, that not to worry, hard work prevails, ect ect. And doing it while avoiding the impact of those excuses for a lack of living wage (excuses being; the job is too simple for a living wage, they don't need the money, they're wasteful by default, they didn't work hard enough, they certainly never sacrificed like I did...) ...all extremely comforting, I'm sure. At least going by how often I hear it. But it's both bullshit on-the-whole and self serving. It ignores reality, past and present, in exchange for a set of concepts that dangle the idea that worth, both monetary recompense for labor and non, should be judged in what's essentially a popularity contest that has jack-all to actually do with effort expended. And that it's, if not fine then at least an expected occurance when (not if, but when) people starve because they're...just not quick enough.

 

[evanrick]

I'm not pitting anybody against each other. The fact is an EMT makes 1495 per hour. Average. They should damn well make more. They should make way more than some loser changing my sheets.

\

who is the enemy? Someone of the working class or the person who makes it hard for you to find a better paying job because the business class has systematically attacked working Americans for decades?

get.
over.
yourself.