House OK's Debt Bill; Senate Rejects It.

[JayHawk]

That is their talking points and they are keeping people on their side using them... even the F one which is easily interpreted as racism.

And I got that one wrong on the 250k. I still thoroughly believe what I have been saying. Whether the taxes are raised or not raised business wants to know so they can go forward.

BP you always claim I dont read and comprehend and likewise I claim the same of you.

I already ceded that point. Are you that obsessed with gloating over a win?

Okay here ya go....


I cede that I was wrong on the 250K

Do you comprehend now?

 

[BostonPirate]

lmao!!!

of course the disclaimer of...

I still thoroughly believe what I have been saying.

is laying right there as well, but that was moving a mile for you, I admit.

 

[JayHawk]

lmao!!!

of course the disclaimer of...

is laying right there as well, but that was moving a mile for you, I admit.

I do still believe the other things I have been saying. You poo poo'ed it in another thread but I can not imagine making a business decision in this climate. I think that is the loss of confidence that is strangling our markets. You are much more qualified to hypothesize on that theory.

LOL at Jay's cartoon.

(@Pirate: he's not a bad guy, is he?)

Jay, you could teach the goosestep Republicans who come in here—the JayQueers and Laikas—a thing or two about critical thinking.

Even if we don't agree on the other stuff....

Thank you Johan... I am an ass often and argument to the point of insanity but I must. It is the only way to get to a final idea or to beat all of the bushes on a concept. (no pun intended)

I frequently get my dander up when insulted as I feel it is an unnecessary component n JUB and a poor method for winning an argument.

On different concepts all I can say is I try to understand. I wish America did too.

 

[BostonPirate]

I do still believe the other things I have been saying. You poo poo'ed it in another thread but I can not imagine making a business decision in this climate. I think that is the loss of confidence that is strangling our markets. You are much more qualified to hypothesize on that theory.

They already have as unstable an environment as you can imagine. I could not conceive of a way in which it could matter more or less to them one way or the other.

Business is not getting any more pork from the GOP. that is a HUGE reason they sent that letter demanding the Ceiling be raised without debate.

They also are aware that the GOP cannot deliver many promises to them anymore, as it takes a promise of amending the constitution just to get a simple GOP majority in a house of reps that has the majority party with aprox a fifty vote lead over the minority.

IF the guys that are getting paid millions to oversee billion dollar net profits quarterly are concerned about a two to five percent increase in taxes?

they are unable to compete globally and are indeed so big and badly managed that they DO need to fail.

American business has lost its edge, and the GOP cannot rig the system for them anymore than they already have. When we have a disparity between import and export tarrifs in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 percent with all of our trading nations, it is a statement on the quality of goods being offered, not the taxes.

 

[JayHawk]

American business has lost its edge, and the GOP cannot rig the system for them anymore than they already have. When we have a disparity between import and export tarrifs in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 percent with all of our trading nations, it is a statement on the quality of goods being offered, not the taxes.

SO it is purely Quality of goods and not cost of production that trumps all?

Side story about two years ago me and the BF worked towards dsigning software for the restaurant industry that would be effective and affordable for small business. There were several innovations over what Sysco pushes and it would have taken off I think had we pressed forward. That isnt the point. The point is to have software designs put together in the US it would have costed right around 3k a month for three months programming to get it built, tested and then debugged. Indian programmers found online did the same work for around 150 a month.

How do we compete?

 

[BostonPirate]

If the cost of production mattered, Bush's tax cuts would have proven fruitful.

No.. business is trying to wring as much as it can out of the gov't because it's easier than becoming more globally competitive.

really.

If a CEO and a CFo cannot forecast a quarter (three months profits) when we know what the tax rate is going to be for six months, its not the tax rate thats causing the distress.

its competition and its the market upheaval due to the variable interest instruments they are carrying that is causing them pause.

businesses project a quarter's net profit, and then budget accordingly during that period. How close their projections come to the actual net profit, control how stable their stock values are.

what are the foreseeable variables in the next six months? The tax rates are set through the end of 2012, so that is not the reason.

as for how we compete? the old fashioned american way. You make a superior product, you invest in education, and a skilled work force, and you pay them well.

That creates a better product. Theres only so many ways you can game the system, and they have run out of options. Now they either need to produce a competitive product, that people will pay more for, OR they create a cheaper and less effective product that the international community will not be interested in purchasing.

There was a time, in Pre Obama days, when american manufactured cars did not meet Chinese emissions standards. THAT is what caused the auto industry's market share loss, not the cost of labor, IMO

 

[JayHawk]

Will they sign this one?

The deal would increase the debt ceiling by more than $2 trillion in two stages which will last through the 2012 election, a key demand for Mr. Obama and Democratic leaders.

As for spending cuts, about $1 trillion over 10 years would be cut now from the federal budget. In addition, a new special congressional committee made up of members from both parties and both houses of Congress would be tasked with coming up up with $1.8 trillion in cuts by Thanksgiving. If the committee failed to reach the target, or Congress didn't pass the recommendations by the end of 2011, Congress would vote on a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, a key demand for many conservatives in the debt fight.

If the amendment fails, the deal calls for automatic spending cuts to defense and domenstic programs totally $1.2 trillion, with an accompanying debt limit increase.

President Obama: Deal reached on debt crisis

 

[Críostóir]

I have begun to suspect that I was too hasty in dismissing JayHawk as not worth arguing with.

I'm sorry, JayHawk.

 

[JayHawk]

Well thank you but unnecessary.. Honestly if people didn't get heated in CE&P it would be a bunch of boring gibberish...

I think as long as we dont act in way where we are unable to look at one another (electronically); Then we should be ok in the evil CE&P threads of JUB...

 

[MoltenRock III]

That's because Obama has caved each and every time. Odds on favorite again, C A V E!

Oh, lookie! Barry caved again!

 

[Críostóir]

Well thank you but unnecessary.. Honestly if people didn't get heated in CE&P it would be a bunch of boring gibberish...

I think as long as we dont act in way where we are unable to look at one another (electronically); Then we should be ok in the evil CE&P threads of JUB...

Thank you.

 

[Kulindahr]

@MoltenRock, Pirate, and JayHawk:

It looks like the tide's beginning to turn on one key issue.

An economist, a bald-headed guy named Ali something—a Republican—said on CNN today that the idea that "higher taxes hurts the economy" might have been a fraud from the get-go.

The thing is, it's a canard that's been repeated so often, over so many years, that it's become to be accepted as the truth.

In fact, he says, spending cuts hurt the economy more than tax hikes ever did.

(Damn Americans—it took us longer to figure this out than every other country in the world. Damn us!)

MoltenRock, this issue is one that might interest you the most....

Again, it's a matter of conditions, from how the economy is doing to balance of trade to unemployment levels..... And historically, it's obvious that there have been times when raising taxes was good for the economy.

 

[JayHawk]

I think it will turn also. However I am positive it will be wrapped up in "Tax Overhaul" and sold as a new way of doing business and not a tax increase when in fact it will be a tax increase for many who dont pay a dime.

 

[Kulindahr]

<nods head>

You're right.

And if you think of the larger picture, there were times that not only was raising taxes the right thing to do (WW2, for example) it ushered in a long period of growth and prosperity.

My OH tells me that a second leading Republican came out today, and said the same thing.

I believe the tide is beginning to turn, Kulindahr. It was common sense all along, really, wasn't it?

Now as for Grover Norquist: I've already obsessed on him too much already, but I submit to you that a man that would rather see his country completely ruined, rather than have to pay higher taxes, is selfish to the point of being a psychopath.

I've decided that no one should be allowed to sit in Congress who hasn't passed basic college linear algebra, a course on set theory, and one on equilibrium of biological systems. Those are not difficult, and they would benefit immensely when trying to understand what are basically systems-related issues.

I think it will turn also. However I am positive it will be wrapped up in "Tax Overhaul" and sold as a new way of doing business and not a tax increase when in fact it will be a tax increase for many who dont pay a dime.

Necessary, but not sufficient.