I am religious and Gay.. how do i survive without sex?

[Telstra]

Hey Handsome, hope all these different views hasn't intimidated you...?

I would like him to post more.
Interesting to read his points of view.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Yes, Handsome! I'm thirding ludolfo and Telstra.

While we may get carried away with our differences of opinions here on religion, we still care about you and your question.

I think you can be Muslim, gay and happy.

 

[*Handsome*]

If there is nothing wrong with being gay in Islam, why should you not marry a man?

(Unofficially, yes, but more importantly for you: in obedience to your faith.)

A man cant marry with another man in Islam.

You must understand this.
The Holy Quran and other holy books are man made. In fact all books and ideas are man made.
If you understand and believe that all are man made, you will solve your problems i think.

Oh, and the idea of "god" is from man, hence god is man made !!!!

i am not a stupid who is gone belive a book just because people said it is words of God.. But the facts written in holy Quran made me to belive that it is words of God and second my prayers always has been answered

There is your problem.
Can you prove that how god may punish you ?

after our death we are going to return to our God and he will punish and reward according to our deeds

OK, I was just trying to get a clearer understanding of your situation. You mean ANY sexual relation other than marriage is a sin in Islam, and especially if it is gay relationship, and that Shariah law is very oppressive, and there is also the fear they tell you will happen after you die if you do not do what they sayyou must.

First off Handsome you MUST take responsibility that you CHOOSE to believe this. That is first step. No one really is forcing you inside but yourself. I am aware that many children are drilled in these beliefs since being very small and this all becomes internalized, but as you see you are in hell ALREADY aren't you, because you very much would like to have relation with other male.

So this responsibility must then now involve you seeing through this indoctrination.

Have you ever taken psychedelics, or do you know anything about them? I am guessing they are a big sin in your religion?

Sharia law does not say you any thing as long as you are doing gay stuff (sex etc) in a room the punishment only applied if you did something which cause the society other wise Sharia Law belives the things people do hiddenly truly belong to God and God will deal with it because the purpose of any law is to make society clean and things happening in rooms does not make any sense with society .. and second in Pakistan there is no Sharia law is performed as i have mentioned in my first post the base of Pakistani law is British.

at the meantime i dont have any problem if any law punish me for being gay or having sex.. my only concern is the life after death, i dont want to be punish there because this life is temporary every one will die but the life after death is perminent and based on our deeds in this world

 

[*Handsome*]

So long as you use protection there is no need to fear HIV. Further more you should not fear the imaginary Allah because he dosen't exist and any god that would punish you merely for exorcising your natural sexuality is not a good god but a dictatorial monster that should be fought against. Over all I maintain that you should leave Islam because it's views on homosexuality are wrong and debunked by modern science and psychology. Plus it is not healthy to live a life of sexual deprivation.

If the religious stuff is purely your issue then the only way to deal with it is to leave your religion. There are many pro gay religions out there and why would you want to be apart of a sexist, racist, homophobic cult that encourages violence against disbelievers and many barbaric practices. It is really simple, you can't change being gay but you can change your religion.

Next in actuality it dosen't say that women get those boys. Men get both the boys and the girls. Women really don't get shit in the Islamic paradise except being devoted to their husbands. Hell in Islam the Hadith says that the majority of Hell's inhabitants are women.

You Abrahamics need to realize that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Science and psychology shows that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and to live a life of sexual deprivation of not healthy. Really all gay Abrahamics should leave these religions.

First of all the idea that some things are halal in Heaven but haram on earth is illogical. Either something is right all of the time or it is not. Really Mohammad only did this because he wanted to make it so that people live deprived lives on Earth waiting for Heaven where they will let loose instead of living their lives and doing what they wish here. It is the ultimate scam really.

Also one more thing Muslim men are allowed to have sex with women who are not their wives such as concubines and captures slaves of war and are allowed to rape captured women which is immoral. However being gay is not immoral so it just shows that Islam got these ideas wrong.

Again the fact that Islam would allow pedophilia as well as sex with slaves and captured women but not gay sex shows the depravity of Islam. You should not worship a god that does not allow you to express your sexuality and if hypothetically this evil god did exist then he should be fought against and hopefully killed not worshipped. Islam is wrong about homosexuality which is why you should leave it.

I better not reply back to you as some mature people discussing serious topic! whatever you have written is extrime and the things mostly available on anti Islamic websites to washed the brains of innocent people like "you" to make them against Islam otherwise i have studied Islam and practice it and found Islam as equal right religion for man and women (in some case women got more rights) and when we talk about Gay then there are rights for them too as long as they does not invloved them in sexual activity.. so you better study Islam from Quran not from anti Islamic websites!

Blessings..

 

[*Handsome*]

Yes, Handsome! I'm thirding ludolfo and Telstra.

While we may get carried away with our differences of opinions here on religion, we still care about you and your question.

I think you can be Muslim, gay and happy.

I would like him to post more.
Interesting to read his points of view.

Hey Handsome, hope all these different views hasn't intimidated you...?

some one try to made this thread anti Islamic so i decided to better stop replying as the normal thing from people coming who blame religion for the faults of belivers, then i decided to reply back as i dont need to care those people coz they are wrong i am not!!

Well, I used to be religious, and you guys really have to understand that God is very real to people who were raised very religious. Hell is very real to someone who had a fundamentalist upbringing.

The way Pentacostals say their dinner prayer is to talk as if God is in the room with them. They aren't acting: they actually have a circuit in their brains that fires up when they do their dinner prayer, so they feel the presence of God in the same way that...

Okay, try walking around your house with your eyes closed. It's easy enough to do. When you come up on a place where you know there is a piece of furniture that is always in the same place, it's almost like you can feel it there. It's not something that you feel physically, but you have the feeling of it being there because you KNOW it's there.

And the way people like that can actually genuinely believe that God is there, in actual fact, is similar. To them, they can't possibly believe that God is not there because, to them, he's there every day. You can call it a delusion however much you want to, but it's really drilled into them so deeply that you are wasting your breath.

The only thing that I have ever heard of curing people of religion is for them to have an awakening to become more educated about their religion. For them to take time to read and understand their religious scriptures helps them learn how wrong most people are about them. That's one of the great ironies of religion: the religious claim that these scriptures are the most sacred and important things in their lives, yet very few of them actually sit down to read them. If it doesn't cure them of religion, it will at the very least lead to them being more responsible citizens and more enlightened individuals. In many cases, their religion hangs itself in its own noose, but whether this happens or not is up to the individual.

The reason this works is that they learn that the religion they have always had is not like the one in the book. If they accept that the scriptures contain the authentic religion, they have to leave the religion they grew up with to assume it. It often just makes more sense to leave the religion and become an atheist, though.

If you are trying to preach to them about science and reason, though, you are wasting your time.

Well some how till last line was true, i believe in God not because Quran said me to do it.. it is because my prayers has been answered which make me to believe that God is all here..

Muslims do belive in science and Quran encourage them to study science and reached to those stars which shine at sky.

 

[Telstra]

A man cant marry with another man in Islam.



i am not a stupid who is gone belive a book just because people said it is words of God.. But the facts written in holy Quran made me to belive that it is words of God and second my prayers always has been answered



after our death we are going to return to our God and he will punish and reward according to our deeds



Sharia law does not say you any thing as long as you are doing gay stuff (sex etc) in a room the punishment only applied if you did something which cause the society other wise Sharia Law belives the things people do hiddenly truly belong to God and God will deal with it because the purpose of any law is to make society clean and things happening in rooms does not make any sense with society .. and second in Pakistan there is no Sharia law is performed as i have mentioned in my first post the base of Pakistani law is British.

at the meantime i dont have any problem if any law punish me for being gay or having sex.. my only concern is the life after death, i dont want to be punish there because this life is temporary every one will die but the life after death is perminent and based on our deeds in this world

ummm the Holy Quaran IS written by man and the words of man.
And why are you so special, only YOU know god and not me ?

Oh about your "prayers has been answered" what were they ?

 

[ludolfo]

A man cant marry with another man in Islam.




at the meantime i dont have any problem if any law punish me for being gay or having sex.. my only concern is the life after death, i dont want to be punish there because this life is temporary every one will die but the life after death is perminent and based on our deeds in this world

Hi Handsome. good to see you back here with us
I feel your biggest fear is what will happen after death. I get it that you feel loving other males in sexual way could get you permanent punishment?
I am curious Handsome, because I am not familiar with your religion. What are the quotes in the Koran where it says gay people will suffer after death?

 

[Telstra]

some one try to made this thread anti Islamic so i decided to better stop replying as the normal thing from people coming who blame religion for the faults of belivers, then i decided to reply back as i dont need to care those people coz they are wrong i am not!!



Well some how till last line was true, i believe in God not because Quran said me to do it.. it is because my prayers has been answered which make me to believe that God is all here..

Muslims do belive in science and Quran encourage them to study science and reached to those stars which shine at sky.

The result doesn't support your claims.
Zero modern scientific discoveries are coming from Islamic countries at the moment.

Anyway, maybe the Quaran need to be re-written to catchup with modern ideas.
And it need to get out of politics all together as god doesn't play politics.

 

[Brian Smith]

Well some how till last line was true, i believe in God not because Quran said me to do it.. it is because my prayers has been answered which make me to believe that God is all here..

Muslims do belive in science and Quran encourage them to study science and reached to those stars which shine at sky.

Hmm. That didn't come out as I meant it, then. I meant to say that appealing to science and a priori reasoning was, in my experience, ineffective at changing people's minds about religion. As far as getting people to think differently, I have found it to be a lot more effective to point out how drastically books like the Quran differ, based on a plain reading, from standard interpretation.

However, our conversation together was my first real opportunity to look over the Quran intensively. I have been meaning to get around to reading it through, but I just had not had sufficient pretext until recently.

And I might want to consider adding Arabic to my linguistic studies eventually.

Anyway, I did not mean to imply that all religious people are against science and reason. I will try to be more alert to what I am saying in the future.

 

[*Handsome*]

Islam always support science and new things, but at the mean time science not yet proved that a man can be born as gay, the doctors said its persons own thinking or you can say the mind who made them gay or lesbian or straight etc

what do you say abut this? does science proved that a boy born as gay? and at the meantime we should remember that science prove its own laws wrong after several years with new studies .. so we can not much relay on science in this debate..

BTW i dont know Arabic too, i can read it but cant understand!

Hmm. That didn't come out as I meant it, then. I meant to say that appealing to science and a priori reasoning was, in my experience, ineffective at changing people's minds about religion. As far as getting people to think differently, I have found it to be a lot more effective to point out how drastically books like the Quran differ, based on a plain reading, from standard interpretation.

However, our conversation together was my first real opportunity to look over the Quran intensively. I have been meaning to get around to reading it through, but I just had not had sufficient pretext until recently.

And I might want to consider adding Arabic to my linguistic studies eventually.

Anyway, I did not mean to imply that all religious people are against science and reason. I will try to be more alert to what I am saying in the future.

The result doesn't support your claims.
Zero modern scientific discoveries are coming from Islamic countries at the moment.

Anyway, maybe the Quaran need to be re-written to catchup with modern ideas.
And it need to get out of politics all together as god doesn't play politics.

Well not really, there are hundreds of things which has been dicovered by Modren science were told by holy QUran 1400 year ago including the shape of Earth, and how a child has born and so on.. but i am not gone discussed here you can search these things on google.. i am here for my own problem not to preach others

 

[*Handsome*]

well there i no punishment mentioned in Quran for having illegal sex, but it has been written that having homosexual stuff is a great sin..

and BTW there is nothing wrong in Islam if i care about an other man and feel loving etc the problem starts when i have sex with him

Hi Handsome. good to see you back here with us
I feel your biggest fear is what will happen after death. I get it that you feel loving other males in sexual way could get you permanent punishment?
I am curious Handsome, because I am not familiar with your religion. What are the quotes in the Koran where it says gay people will suffer after death?

ummm the Holy Quaran IS written by man and the words of man.
And why are you so special, only YOU know god and not me ?

Oh about your "prayers has been answered" what were they ?

Holy Quran is written by man but its verse came from the God,

well there are lot of prayers, like i pray to met a hot guy and i with in 2 days i met him and made kiss, but i did not found it comfortable because of religious stuff, then i prayed if he has forgiven me because i did gay stuff then invite me to Makkah for forgivness and guess what in that morning my father told us that we are going to Makkah (Where he did not tlk about it ever) and when i was in Makkah i just think that to eat something and a person came there with in 5 mint to bring that thing for me and at the mean time i have not told about that wish to any one, i have just think about it and it as fulfilled.. there are hundred thousands of prayers i can write

i know for a non-religious person this things could be funny or shocking but my prayers has been answered

 

[bankside]

Usually it is possible to help someone with a problem that has been forced upon them. But your problem seems chosen voluntarily. There is clearly nothing wrong with being gay or finding a good gay relationship and living as a couple fully and completely. If you choose to ignore that, you ignore the obvious solution already within your grasp.

 

[Telstra]

Islam always support science and new things, but at the mean time science not yet proved that a man can be born as gay, the doctors said its persons own thinking or you can say the mind who made them gay or lesbian or straight etc

what do you say abut this? does science proved that a boy born as gay? and at the meantime we should remember that science prove its own laws wrong after several years with new studies .. so we can not much relay on science in this debate..

BTW i dont know Arabic too, i can read it but cant understand!





Well not really, there are hundreds of things which has been dicovered by Modren science were told by holy QUran 1400 year ago including the shape of Earth, and how a child has born and so on.. but i am not gone discussed here you can search these things on google.. i am here for my own problem not to preach others

oh goody LOL, i've heard all this before.
Where are the scientific formulas and chemistry formulas ?????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Brian Smith]

and BTW there is nothing wrong in Islam if i care about an other man and feel loving etc the problem starts when i have sex with him

You will find some material in the Hadiths about homosexuality and anal sex, but those documents are often of dubious origin. The Quran really doesn't say anything explicit about it.

Even the destruction of Sodom, which is the darling of those who want to justify the way gay people are treated, is clearly not about any specific sin. The story of Lot's family does not paint a picture of a lot of nice, civilized men with neatly trimmed lawns who just happened to have gay lovers. Read it however many times you want to, but you are never going to see that picture.

The idea that homosexuality is something hideously evil did not come about until the 13th Century. Before then, nobody thought anything of the odd gay guy. A lot of things went wrong with this world in the 13th Century. The beginnings of modern persecution against gay people was one of them.

well there are lot of prayers, like i pray to met a hot guy and i with in 2 days i met him and made kiss, but i did not found it comfortable because of religious stuff, then i prayed if he has forgiven me because i did gay stuff then invite me to Makkah for forgivness and guess what in that morning my father told us that we are going to Makkah (Where he did not tlk about it ever) and when i was in Makkah i just think that to eat something and a person came there with in 5 mint to bring that thing for me and at the mean time i have not told about that wish to any one, i have just think about it and it as fulfilled.. there are hundred thousands of prayers i can write

Okay, so you prayed for God to send you a hot guy, and you say he answered that prayer within 2 days, presumably knowing that you had a sexual longing for men and that this was why you were saying that prayer.

2 + 2 = ?

You think someone is trying to tell you something?

 

[Mariatenebre]

A man cant marry with another man in Islam.



i am not a stupid who is gone belive a book just because people said it is words of God.. But the facts written in holy Quran made me to belive that it is words of God and second my prayers always has been answered



after our death we are going to return to our God and he will punish and reward according to our deeds



Sharia law does not say you any thing as long as you are doing gay stuff (sex etc) in a room the punishment only applied if you did something which cause the society other wise Sharia Law belives the things people do hiddenly truly belong to God and God will deal with it because the purpose of any law is to make society clean and things happening in rooms does not make any sense with society .. and second in Pakistan there is no Sharia law is performed as i have mentioned in my first post the base of Pakistani law is British.

at the meantime i dont have any problem if any law punish me for being gay or having sex.. my only concern is the life after death, i dont want to be punish there because this life is temporary every one will die but the life after death is perminent and based on our deeds in this world

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur'an
There is no facts in the Quran in fact the Quran is scientifically and historically accurate as this pages shows. Also what people do in private is their own affairs. Not any god's or anyone elses.

I better not reply back to you as some mature people discussing serious topic! whatever you have written is extrime and the things mostly available on anti Islamic websites to washed the brains of innocent people like "you" to make them against Islam otherwise i have studied Islam and practice it and found Islam as equal right religion for man and women (in some case women got more rights) and when we talk about Gay then there are rights for them too as long as they does not invloved them in sexual activity.. so you better study Islam from Quran not from anti Islamic websites!

Blessings..

First of all I have studied Islam and men and women do not have equal rights. Men are allowed to beat women, men get more inheritance then women and men are given power over women. This pages shows how men and women are not equal under Islam.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Women

Also gays have a right to sexual activity. As I mentioned before any psychologist will tell you that sexual deprivation is not psychologically healthy and gays are to be killed if they have sex. Gay sex is apart of being gay to deny gay people the right to have sex is to deny who they are. Also I have studied the Quran itself and these anti Islamic websites I mentioned actually post the truth of Islam and do not rose color it to make it more palatable.

 

[Mariatenebre]

[

some one try to made this thread anti Islamic so i decided to better stop replying as the normal thing from people coming who blame religion for the faults of belivers, then i decided to reply back as i dont need to care those people coz they are wrong i am not!!



Well some how till last line was true, i believe in God not because Quran said me to do it.. it is because my prayers has been answered which make me to believe that God is all here..

Muslims do belive in science and Quran encourage them to study science and reached to those stars which shine at sky.

Many people from varying religions believe their prayers are answered by their various Gods. This means nothing, most likely an event went in your favor and instead of accepting it as chance you took it to mean that some god did it for you. In particular the Islamic god. You are wrong science has refuted Islam on the nature of homosexuality as well as a great many other things. Also Muslims do not believe in science as the Quran says many unscientific things. For instance it promotes creationism, a flat Earth and has many scientific blunders.

Islam always support science and new things, but at the mean time science not yet proved that a man can be born as gay, the doctors said its persons own thinking or you can say the mind who made them gay or lesbian or straight etc

what do you say abut this? does science proved that a boy born as gay? and at the meantime we should remember that science prove its own laws wrong after several years with new studies .. so we can not much relay on science in this debate..

BTW i dont know Arabic too, i can read it but cant understand!





Well not really, there are hundreds of things which has been dicovered by Modren science were told by holy QUran 1400 year ago including the shape of Earth, and how a child has born and so on.. but i am not gone discussed here you can search these things on google.. i am here for my own problem not to preach others

In actuality you are wrong science has shown that people are born gay and that homosexuality is caused by both genetics and environmental causes. Take a look at this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

As for the Quran first of all there were many people who knew of the shape of the Earth long before the Quran. In fact the Quran got the shape of the Earth wrong. Ditto for how a child is born. The Quran contains nothing more then plagiarize science from the ancient Greeks with many wrong things in it.
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Qur'an

As for how a child is born here is what the Quran says and what science says.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Embryology_in_the_Qur'an
QUOTE=*Handsome*;8829397]well there i no punishment mentioned in Quran for having illegal sex, but it has been written that having homosexual stuff is a great sin..

and BTW there is nothing wrong in Islam if i care about an other man and feel loving etc the problem starts when i have sex with him





Holy Quran is written by man but its verse came from the God,

well there are lot of prayers, like i pray to met a hot guy and i with in 2 days i met him and made kiss, but i did not found it comfortable because of religious stuff, then i prayed if he has forgiven me because i did gay stuff then invite me to Makkah for forgivness and guess what in that morning my father told us that we are going to Makkah (Where he did not tlk about it ever) and when i was in Makkah i just think that to eat something and a person came there with in 5 mint to bring that thing for me and at the mean time i have not told about that wish to any one, i have just think about it and it as fulfilled.. there are hundred thousands of prayers i can write

i know for a non-religious person this things could be funny or shocking but my prayers has been answered[/QUOTE]

Next your prayers were not answered it was merely a coincidence that you went to Mecca. Further more the Quran is evil and wrong to say that gay sex is wrong. Science has shown that there is nothing wrong with it. The fact that you choose Islam even though it denies your sexual dignity shows that Abrahamic gays are the most self hating creatures on the Earth.

 

[TX-Beau]

OK here's what I'm hearing you say, you believe in God because he/she/it answered your prayers, one of which was to get with a guy, which you then felt guilty about because that's wrong according to god?!?

Everyone around you is fine if you are gay - except for yourself since you feel horribly guilty about getting with the guy god sent to you?

Contrary. I'm going to go with you have issues you aren't addressing about your own gay and are just projecting them onto God.

 

[zoltanspawn]

and BTW there is nothing wrong in Islam if i care about an other man and feel loving etc the problem starts when i have sex with him

I think it's reasonable that you should have a sense of why it's a problem, not just that it is a problem. What makes gay sex wrong?

If gay sex is wrong, as you've suggested, because it is extramarital then gay sex is a sin of unfaithfulness. It seems to me that the problem of unfaithfulness is easily enough remedied...

Anyway, I think you might take a look over this analysis by Dr. Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle. I hope it inspires you to think a little differently. http://mpvusa.org/portfolio/sexuality-diversity/ (It's awkwardly designed; you have to click on 'preface, 1, 2, 3' to navigate.)

I was heartened to see that Muslims for Progressive Values performs same-sex Islamic marriages. I think you need to find yourself a nice boyfriend then fly on over here to Los Angeles and get yourself a husband!

 

[*Handsome*]

Many people from varying religions believe their prayers are answered by their various Gods. This means nothing, most likely an event went in your favor and instead of accepting it as chance you took it to mean that some god did it for you. In particular the Islamic god. You are wrong science has refuted Islam on the nature of homosexuality as well as a great many other things. Also Muslims do not believe in science as the Quran says many unscientific things. For instance it promotes creationism, a flat Earth and has many scientific blunders.

In actuality you are wrong science has shown that people are born gay and that homosexuality is caused by both genetics and environmental causes. Take a look at this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

As for the Quran first of all there were many people who knew of the shape of the Earth long before the Quran. In fact the Quran got the shape of the Earth wrong. Ditto for how a child is born. The Quran contains nothing more then plagiarize science from the ancient Greeks with many wrong things in it.
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Qur'an

As for how a child is born here is what the Quran says and what science says.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Embryology_in_the_Qur'an
well there i no punishment mentioned in Quran for having illegal sex, but it has been written that having homosexual stuff is a great sin..

and BTW there is nothing wrong in Islam if i care about an other man and feel loving etc the problem starts when i have sex with him

Seriously wikiislam is the source of information for you? this is an anti Islamic website who is translating holy Quran wrong..

Shape of Earth is not Flat in Quran it has written:
“And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

and here from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth

Child Birth and Pregnancy in the Quran and Hadith:
“O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then verily! We have created you (i.e. Adam) from dust, then from a Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge i.e. offspring of Adam), then from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood) then from a little lump of flesh, some formed and some unformed (miscarriage), that We may make (it) clear to you (i.e. to show you Our Power and Ability to do what We will). And We cause whom We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term, then We bring you out as infants, then (give you growth) that you may reach your age of full strength. And among you there is he who dies (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the miserable old age, so that he knows nothing after having known. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down water (rain) on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells and puts forth every lovely kind (of growth).” (Quran – Al-Hajj:5)

 

[*Handsome*]

thank you every one for help and replies but someone start putting abuse my religion and my belives on the bases of anti islamic websites who provide wrong information.. i think i could not go further because i am not here to preach any thing or to ans those who does not belive in religion, i was here to get some help and some how i got ..


any ways have a good day every one