I do not believe in sexual orientation.

[Kulindahr]

The Kinsley study found that one in 10 guys were homosexual, but it was flawed. The sample was taken in Chicago's equivalent of a gay ghetto. We make up closer to one per cent of the population, and prevalence of bisexuality is far lower.

"Not believing" is really wishful thinking

Best figure I've seen says around four percent.

 

[Kulindahr]

Sorry for the people who are truly bisexual, the very few, but there are so many gay men that take on that label because they associate it with masculinity. I think of those men as chicken, and they make up the majority of bisexuals.

Got a cite for that?

Or just flippin' your fingers in fantasy?

 

[Snuffy]

Got a cite for that?

Or just flippin' your fingers in fantasy?

When I first started realizing that I liked men, I started panicing and told myself I was "bisexual". I had a wet dream, once in my life, about a girl, and I was ecstatic, even though the experience never, ever happened again. Even though kissing a girl made me go soft, that one experience meant that I could wear the safe label... I was bisexual!!!

My story is common to almost all gay men. Bisexuality is safe, one that allows you to avoid being associated with what we're taught to hate. It took me a while to realize that being gay had nothing to do with masculinity, and there was nothing wrong with me being 100 per cent gay.

And no, kissing that hot girl while I was on ecstasy doesn't count.

I'm still gay as fuck.

 

[andy12]

The Kinsley study found that one in 10 guys were homosexual, but it was flawed. The sample was taken in Chicago's equivalent of a gay ghetto. We make up closer to one per cent of the population, and prevalence of bisexuality is far lower.

"Not believing" is really wishful thinking

Tell that to the first dozen Roman emperors, only one of whom managed the current standard of hetero-only relationships.

Gay is not the only way to be a homosexual. Gays are born, but I have an inkling most men are made straight.

My story is common to almost all gay men. Bisexuality is safe, one that allows you to avoid being associated with what we're taught to hate. It took me a while to realize that being gay had nothing to do with masculinity, and there was nothing wrong with me being 100 per cent gay.

But it's not common to bisexual men who are attracted to women.

 

[Kulindahr]

When I first started realizing that I liked men, I started panicing and told myself I was "bisexual". I had a wet dream, once in my life, about a girl, and I was ecstatic, even though the experience never, ever happened again. Even though kissing a girl made me go soft, that one experience meant that I could wear the safe label... I was bisexual!!!

My story is common to almost all gay men. Bisexuality is safe, one that allows you to avoid being associated with what we're taught to hate. It took me a while to realize that being gay had nothing to do with masculinity, and there was nothing wrong with me being 100 per cent gay.

And no, kissing that hot girl while I was on ecstasy doesn't count.

I'm still gay as fuck.

So you're universalizing your own story.

 

[andy12]

It's a poor understanding of "gay". Many people confuse gay with feminine. You can go hunting and be a NASCAR fan, but if you're attracted to guys exclusively, you're gay. There's lots of different types of gay men. The label is quite expansive, and people who reject it do so, typically, because of internalized homophobia.

It's not a confusion. The research, done many times by scientists who themselves are gay (see Simon LeVay's books summing up the evidence), concludes that gays are gender-shifted, so it's more than who you're fucking. Sure, not all gay men are completely effeminate, but the correlation is strongly there. So what about guys who like guys (and maybe girls) but are masculine? The labels miss that dimension, completely.

It's as simple as this:

Guys make your dick hard and girls don't = Gay
Guys and girls make your dick hard = Bisexual
Opposite sex makes your dick hard = Straight

Yeah, see I don't fit in with that. I don't like women and gay men because they're generally effeminate or more than I'd want. And it's not the effeminacy per se: it's the dynamic. I want men because I relate to them since I am one. Oh, and did I mention I get morning wood about women? But I still don't want them because I don't want to deal with the nagging, waiting an hour to get ready, the crying, and all that girly stuff.

So sure, what does that make me? Bisexual? I'm gay? Okay, except I don't see gay men that are like me in all but that one superficial aspect. All the other correlative factors for gay I don't see in me. Sorry, these labels are superficial and don't explain anything either. You might as well have a system that ranks based on race or weight or hair color or beverage choice. I'm sure we could fit me in there too but that misses the point.

Sorry for the people who are truly bisexual, the very few, but there are so many gay men that take on that label because they associate it with masculinity. I think of those men as chicken, and they make up the majority of bisexuals.

Why are they chicken? Gay is effeminate. Nothing wrong with that, but just as you don't compliment a woman on her mustache, real men don't want to be thought of as effeminate. People should be free to be who they are. And if they're not effeminate, why force it? We shouldn't force gay men to live up to masculine expectations either.

Telling masculine men to be fine with being effeminate is hardly different from the bullying gay men to be more masculine.

 

[bwonderrednow]

Let's be honest, saying you don't want to be labeled automatically makes people think you're gay.

Let's be honest, saying you're bisexual leaves you with a very limited picking of women because they are still not comfortable with it. To a lot of them gay and bisexual are the same thing. LOL

To be honest, when a man tells me he is bisexual, I'm already nexting him in my head. I don't like it. Sorry. I truly believe most gay guys say they are bi because they don't want to be identified as gay, knowing damn they don't like women. That's self-hatred that you need to deal with because I don't want to deal with it in the long run. Plus, confidence is so sexy.

And what is so bad about saying you're gay? You like men, right? You're a homosexual person regardless if you're bi or not. Admit it.

And lastly, masculinity has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. The fact that some of y'all think it does goes to show that society is getting its point across with these stereotypes.

 

[The White Stripe]

Let's be honest, saying you don't want to be labeled automatically makes people think you're gay.

Let's be honest, saying you're bisexual leaves you with a very limited picking of women because they are still not comfortable with it.

To be honest, when a man tells me he is bisexual, I'm already nexting him in my head. I don't like it. Sorry. I truly believe most gay guys say they are bi because they don't want to be identified as gay, knowing damn they don't like women. That's self-hatred that you need to deal with because I don't want to deal with it in the long run.

And what is so bad about saying you're gay? You like men, right? You're a homosexual person regardless if you're bi or not. Admit it.

I'm bi. I thought I was gay for a long time, but I still get off to girls. I do. I'm not just saying it to hold on to some desperate straight part of myself I just like vaginas is all.

I just so happen to like penis as well.

I would honestly be gay if I only liked men. Thats the truth. I'm going to tell you something you might not want to know. Last night, I masterbated...to a girl rubbing her tits together. Yes.

Does this make me straight? No

Why?

Because two nights ago I jacked off thinking about a guy.

Yeah even I think its weird. I'm bisexual and I guess I'm confusing...

Sorry. :/

 

[bwonderrednow]

I'm bi. I thought I was gay for a long time, but I still get off to girls. I do. I'm not just saying it to hold on to some desperate straight part of myself I just like vaginas is all.

I just so happen to like penis as well.

I would honestly be gay if I only liked men. Thats the truth. I'm going to tell you something you might not want to know. Last night, I masterbated...to a girl rubbing her tits together. Yes.

Does this make me straight? No

Why?

Because two nights ago I jacked off thinking about a guy.

Yeah even I think its weird. I'm bisexual and I guess I'm confusing...

Sorry. :/

I believe you. I'm not upset because I don't want you. No offense. I just believe most straight people don't see much a difference, especially a lot of the women I associate with. They aren't having it.

Sometimes I think about women sexually too. If I'm horny enough, I can get off to girls. But I like men... I love men. A man is who I see myself with in the long run. I'm not ashamed to say it. I identify as gay. Now if I don't want to tell you my orientation, that's a different thing.

 

[andy12]

To be honest, when a man tells me he is bisexual, I'm already nexting him in my head. I don't like it. Sorry. I truly believe most gay guys say they are bi because they don't want to be identified as gay, knowing damn they don't like women. That's self-hatred that you need to deal with because I don't want to deal with it in the long run.

Do these psychic powers (knowing what people think) come in handy in other situations? What sort of hatred is it when you dismiss people based on faulty preconceptions?

And what is so bad about saying you're gay? You like men, right? You're a homosexual person regardless if you're bi or not. Admit it.

The point is that homosexual was invented because our Victorian and Christian morality prohibited same sex acts, ie. homosexual acts. What a coincidence the terms completely coincide with the bigotry! Hell, let's call ourselves sodomites because if a cock isn't in a vagina, that's sodomy. So, do you like that label, sodomite? Alright.

And lastly, masculinity has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. The fact that some of y'all think it does goes to show that society is getting its point across with these stereotypes.

It does. All credible research done over the last few decades indicate that gays are disproportionately gender atypical in childhood and adulthood.

 

[Snuffy]

Gay is effeminate.

Tell that to the gay hockey team in this city and they'll kick your ass

You have a very poor understanding of what gay means, dude. To be gay means you're a dude who likes dudes, exclusively. That's it. It has nothing to do with effeminacy or masculinity.

 

[Snuffy]

It does. All credible research done over the last few decades indicate that gays are disproportionately gender atypical in childhood and adulthood.

Yes, but there's still a lot of gay men who are very masculine. The label is expansive to those men, too. They're not bisexuals.

 

[bwonderrednow]

Andy12, you're a waste of time and energy. Love yourself first 'cause no one else will apparently.

Better yet take your bisexual ass to the nearest all female message board and try your luck.

 

[andy12]

What a ridiculous statement. It is very different, asking someone to be fine with something is completely different then bullying gay men for any reason.

Okay, not bullying. But asking gay men to be fine with being a tad more masculine? You know, don't be such a girly man. That is the same thing as dismissing masculine men's innate way of being and expecting them to be something they are not. And calling them self-hating if they don't.

Agreed with this.

Feel free to disagree with the science. Maybe the Earth is only 6000 years after all too.

 

[The White Stripe]

I believe you. I'm not upset because I don't want you. No offense. I just believe most straight people don't see much a difference, especially a lot of the women I associate with. They aren't having it.

Sometimes I think about women sexually too. If I'm horny enough, I can get off to girls. But I like men... I love men. A man is who I see myself with in the long run. I'm not ashamed to say it. I identify as gay. Now if I don't want to tell you my orientation, that's a different thing.

I would consider myself closer to gay.

I would say 6 out of the 7 nights out of the week I'm thinking of a guy as I cuddle my pillow on my way to sleep, but that 1 night out of 7 I truly believe that I could be with a girl. I think thats enough...

You're right though. If I came out right now as "Bi" I would be called faggot at school every day and no girl would even dream of touching me.

Its terrible, but its the world we live in.

HEY. You don't want me? lol

jk

 

[andy12]

Andy12, you're a waste of time and energy. Love yourself first 'cause no one else will apparently.

Better yet take your bisexual ass to the nearest all female message board and try your luck.

The inclusiveness and love from some of the LGBT community never ceases to amaze me. Hell, why not just cut off a few letters? Bisexuals, they aren't real so we can ditch them. Or they're straight guys who can't find pussy. Or they're 100% gay and are just self-hating losers. Whatever nonsense is the biphobic flavor this week. Hell, trannies are so weird they might drag gay rights so toodles to them too.

Some gays need to accept themselves first. And that includes effeminacy. Most gay men do admit to not being one of the boys when they were little and certainly don't fit in straight guys now, so what's the big deal?

 

[bwonderrednow]

I would consider myself closer to gay.

I would say 6 out of the 7 nights out of the week I'm thinking of a guy as I cuddle my pillow on my way to sleep, but that 1 night out of 7 I truly believe that I could be with a girl. I think thats enough...

You're right though. If I came out right now as "Bi" I would be called faggot at school every day and no girl would even dream of touching me.

Its terrible, but its the world we live in.

HEY. You don't want me? lol

jk

I don't want my man thinking about a woman in a sexual manner. I am too selfish to allow that. But it depends on how cute you are and how deep your love goes for me.

 

[SilverWolf]

People who do not believe in labels for sexual orienation are pomosexuals

Pomosexuality is formed by adding the prefix pomo- (shorthand for postmodern) to the adjective -sexual, and is used in reference to oneself as a protest against such labels

 

[andy12]

Calling them self-hating might be a bit much, but I believe that are men that 'act' Masculine. I'm definitely not saying all Men do, but the fact that we're pretty much taught that anything outside of being Masculine is wrong is why I have more of a problem with guys telling men they shouldn't be 'girly'.

My point is that both of these are supremacist attitudes:

Fag, be a man! - to men who are effeminate
You know you're not really masculine. - to men who dare "come out" as masculine and don't remember being anything but like other guys when growing up or now

It's not actually girly to be effeminate. It's only gender based because we're told Men aren't supposed to be or act that way. I actually find Masculinity more annoying than Effeminate men.

Sorry, no one told me to act masculine or be a man. That's how I was born. But hey, we know people are become men. Parenting makes you masculine, just as bad parenting or child abuse makes you gay, right?

I find it laughable that the same people who swear they've always felt gay (even before they had sexual thoughts, quite odd if gay is sex-only) cannot imagine how masculinity could be an inborn trait as well.

I will disagree with the 'science' that contradicts itself when not all Gay men are effeminate.

Correlation is not 100%. Read this very board or some current threads: gay men say they've felt different growing up. They identified with girly things and people. That's not a coincidence. Gay is more than sex. Be honest, is the only difference you perceive between you/most gays you know and straight people you know that you sleep with different genitalias?

 

[Kulindahr]

And what is so bad about saying you're gay? You like men, right? You're a homosexual person regardless if you're bi or not. Admit it.

There's a reason the labeling thing is bad: you want to force the label "gay" on someone who also likes gals.

I once answered the question "Are you gay?" by "Is the moon up?"

It does. All credible research done over the last few decades indicate that gays are disproportionately gender atypical in childhood and adulthood.

I was atypical.

I dressed my sister's dolls up -- in camo, and put them in my army with the tanks, APCs, and gorillas.

Tell that to the gay hockey team in this city and they'll kick your ass

You have a very poor understanding of what gay means, dude. To be gay means you're a dude who likes dudes, exclusively. That's it. It has nothing to do with effeminacy or masculinity.

Quite. He should try telling it to the Pink Pistols, too.

Just as being hetero has nothing to do with effeminacy or masculinity. One of the most effeminate guys I've ever met was a fencer in college, who was as straight as they come -- the sort who couldn't get hard around another guy to save his life.