I thought things had gone quiet onthe gun front

[Kulindahr]

Conspiracy theorists can generally be discredited by their inability to provide hard evidence that supports their claims.

"rocket science" isn't necessary....just the simple questions of "where's the proof?" and "what are the sources of that proof?"

And actual conspiracies are most successful when they leave no hard evidence pointing to them or their activities.

 

[Alistair]

True enough. The one "WTF?" factor for many people in this is that the shooter was, in fact, attacking people highly likely to be friendly to the idea of armed citizens. It's enough that on the several different sites I've reviewed so far every one has had at least one suggestion that this was actually a "librul" plot to scare people into stampeding toward more gun control -- especially as plainly no one carrying a concealed weapon, even if that had been allowed, would have been able to be of any use.

For people to think it's a liberal plot is ridiculous. How are we going to pass gun control legislation in a Republican controlled House and Senate, with a President that would surely veto any gun control bill. If we couldn't do it with President Obama and after Sandy Hook, it will never be done. It almost makes me laugh that there's people stupid enough to even suggest that was the cause.

 

[Alistair]

They usually don't call it terrorism unless the shooter is doing it for some "cause". So far, I haven't heard of any clear motive (though on the alt-right it's being called a "false flag" attack orchestrated by the NSA or CIA).

That was being discussed on a local radio talk show. He should be called a terrorist. Wasn't he causing mass "terror"?

 

[mikey3000]

For people to think it's a liberal plot is ridiculous. How are we going to pass gun control legislation in a Republican controlled House and Senate, with a President that would surely veto any gun control bill. If we couldn't do it with President Obama and after Sandy Hook, it will never be done. It almost makes me laugh that there's people stupid enough to even suggest that was the cause.

Well, the left did twist the Orlando terrorist attack into a homophobic incident to try and sway the election. I wouldn't put anything past the rabid liberals.

 

[KaraBulut]

Officially it's like $999,900, but he gets a lot of perks and benefits, such that I read last year that his annual compensation effectively comes to something like $2.8 million.

Every year I suggest that his salary be cut by 2/3 and the savings be used to provide gun safety courses in inner cities.

^We may differ on other things but I think we agree on this.

I'd also be in favor of making that 2/3 cut be his retirement salary because it is time for him to go.

That was being discussed on a local radio talk show. He should be called a terrorist. Wasn't he causing mass "terror"?

Not by the generally accepted definition. There's two criteria- 1) terrorists act upon innocent people not their direct enemies and 2) their motivation is a social, political or economic objective that they want to call attention to.

Las Vegas would meet the first definition- the people in the crowd were bystanders who were not the shooter's enemies (in fact, he likely knew none of them or anything about them). It fails on the second definition because there's no indication that the shooter was motivated by anything other than the desire to kill lots of people.

Bottom line: this guy was a murderer; he needs to be labeled as such.

I get very frustrated with this Bush-era idea that somehow being a "terrorist" is worse than being a "murderer". What these guys (and they almost always are guys) are doing in mass shootings is murder. Trying to label it as terrorism just provides a faux justification for their abhorrent acts- as if there can be any justification.

 

[gsdx]

Bottom line: this guy was a murderer; he needs to be labeled as such.

Indeed. Although he caused a shitload of terror, he was nothing more than a mass murderer on a grand scale.

 

[KaraBulut]

The Daily Show did a great bit on how Fox is struggling with the narrative on Las Vegas:

For those outside the US:
https://www.youpak.com/watch?v=nV5fXPVeZoQ

 

[gsdx]

^ I love that guy.

 

[LeicsDom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41519815
Las Vegas shooting: NRA urges new rules for gun 'bump-stocks'
Do you think this is the start of gun restrictions being brought in? Or is the NRA just trying to limit damage to their reputation?

 

[medic1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41519815
Las Vegas shooting: NRA urges new rules for gun 'bump-stocks'
Do you think this is the start of gun restrictions being brought in? Or is the NRA just trying to limit damage to their reputation?

I think they are just trying to cover their money grabbing arse's.

 

[Kulindahr]

For people to think it's a liberal plot is ridiculous. How are we going to pass gun control legislation in a Republican controlled House and Senate, with a President that would surely veto any gun control bill. If we couldn't do it with President Obama and after Sandy Hook, it will never be done. It almost makes me laugh that there's people stupid enough to even suggest that was the cause.

I noticed this morning that the idea is giving ground rapidly now that something else has been made known -- the guy was on risky meds:

"I may be the only person in the 'pundit' world who can put what we know about the Las Vegas shooter in perspective because I've dealt with something similar before. My personal take, at this point, is 'homicidal psychotic break, rationale currently unknown, possible pharmacological.'"

The article also debunks some the of the notions being tossed around.


OTOH, those really hooked on the "librul cunspiracy" idea are replying that it was done now to make Republicans look bad. I've restrained myself from noting "as if they needed help".

 

[Kulindahr]

That was being discussed on a local radio talk show. He should be called a terrorist. Wasn't he causing mass "terror"?

I agree with a caller on a show I heard, who said calling him a terrorist gives him too much credit or dignity. Terrorists are at least fighting for a cause, but this guy was just killing people. From information that's emerging, he would be more accurately called a psycho.

 

[medic1]

^Do you know what med's he was on?

I ask because he put an awful lot of planning into this, as well as time. I think you said in a post that the waiting time to book a room in that hotel was around 3 months.

If so, it does not really gel with a psychotic break, the time line is too long.

 

[Kulindahr]

^We may differ on other things but I think we agree on this.

I'd also be in favor of making that 2/3 cut be his retirement salary because it is time for him to go.

It was time for him to go the moment he became a sock puppet for the PR firm that for all practical purposes runs the NRA these days -- Ackerman McQueen of Oklahoma City. Until they came along, he was a poor speaker, and a so-so writer. I'l concede that they've accomplished some worthwhile things, but those were early on, and since then the whole focus is keeping the money flowing. To do that they whip up the membership not just to donate, or to write letters, but also to beat manufacturers into compliance.

Not by the generally accepted definition. There's two criteria- 1) terrorists act upon innocent people not their direct enemies and 2) their motivation is a social, political or economic objective that they want to call attention to.

Las Vegas would meet the first definition- the people in the crowd were bystanders who were not the shooter's enemies (in fact, he likely knew none of them or anything about them). It fails on the second definition because there's no indication that the shooter was motivated by anything other than the desire to kill lots of people.

Bottom line: this guy was a murderer; he needs to be labeled as such.

I get very frustrated with this Bush-era idea that somehow being a "terrorist" is worse than being a "murderer". What these guys (and they almost always are guys) are doing in mass shootings is murder. Trying to label it as terrorism just provides a faux justification for their abhorrent acts- as if there can be any justification.

Exactly. Wish I'd seen this before I posted my last comment.

 

[Kulindahr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41519815
Las Vegas shooting: NRA urges new rules for gun 'bump-stocks'
Do you think this is the start of gun restrictions being brought in? Or is the NRA just trying to limit damage to their reputation?

I think they are just trying to cover their money grabbing arse's.

Medic1 is probably on target. But when it comes down to it, I doubt the NRA will back any legislation to ban bump stocks; OTOH, they wouldn't be happy with a law establishing that only members of state-recognized militias be allowed to have them, either, however perfectly in conformity to the Constitution that would be.

 

[Kulindahr]

^Do you know what med's he was on?

I ask because he put an awful lot of planning into this, as well as time. I think you said in a post that the waiting time to book a room in that hotel was around 3 months.

If so, it does not really gel with a psychotic break, the time line is too long.

From the linked article:

"Homicidal psychotic break means he couldn't have done the planning!'
Au contraire. Deep sigh. Been here, had someone in my life nearly do if not that than similar. "

He goes on to relate the story of a nine-month psychotic break. I've reviewed a bunch on line, and apparently they're not all that rare; in fact more than one source noted that the shorter the psychotic break the less likelihood of dangerous action(s). But there are also indications that a med several mass shooters and the writer's wife were on -- Cymbalta -- can have 'homicidal psychotic breaks' as a side effect (enough so that doctors are now warned about it) [on a personal note, this is why I refuse to accept a prescription for any psych med with less than a ten-year track record]. The only med I've seen reported in this shooter's case is Valium, which can be bad enough; listed side effects include depression, hallucination, and paranoia, all of which can be magnified by interactions with other drugs (I will note here that marijuana is known to magnify hallucinations and paranoia when used with the sort of drug Valium is, so I'm interested to know if there's any indication of marijuana use).

Anyway, a three or four month psychotic break isn't impossible, and if it was a breakthrough episode, i.e. despite being on his meds, the likelihood of a "dark" episode like this is high.

 

[medic1]

^Thanks for the info.

As you know when you have a psychotic break, the people around you do notice the change in behaviour, yet his family, friends and partner are all saying that he was acting normally with no indication of mental health issues.

Indeed, prolonged use of weed is known to cause psychosis.

 

[KaraBulut]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41519815
Las Vegas shooting: NRA urges new rules for gun 'bump-stocks'
Do you think this is the start of gun restrictions being brought in? Or is the NRA just trying to limit damage to their reputation?

They're going to play tit-for-tat.

They'll agree to controls on bump firestocks in exchange for something they want added in... like reciprocity for concealed carry.

It's a win-win... they get to claim support for reasonable control of something that not many people bought, it's NOT a gun (it's an "accessory") and if they don't get their reciprocity law, then it kills the bump firestock bill.

 

[PrinceCory]

Previous presidents like Obama would have his staff wake him up any time something like this happened and make an announcement on tv not sure where Trump is

This is simply not true. Statements always comes hours after an event. Certainly not in the wee hours of the morning.

 

[mikey3000]

I just can't see how a retired accountant with no prior criminal record or political affiliations can transport 10 suitcases of guns and ammo into a gun free hotel, live the good life for days then open fire on innocent thousands. It just doesn't add up.

Even Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said: “At face value he had to have some help at some point. Maybe he was a superhuman who figured this out all on his own but it would be hard for me to believe that.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ond-shooter-accomplice-stephen-paddock-motive