Identifying as Queer vs. Gay

[xbuzzerx]

Discussing the correct way to label our "identities" isn't my idea of fun is all. I'd rather spend my time in other ways. I don't think I'm better or worse than anyone else.

I understand the surface-level appeal of this type of position but I can assure you from a life as a mixed-race person, the world out there is "label or be labelled."

While the sort of situation may not come up as frequently for a gay white male, it's always useful to know what you're going to say when you get the question: "So, what are you?" And just as important as what you say is why, imo.

 

[bort138]

Bort, do you honestly think that's what Gay men do day in and day out? This is one topic on a message board. Not wanting to talk about this shouldn't make you any happier to not be a part of the gay community than the millions of other threads here.

No, I don't think gay men talk about this all day but like any subculture it has its' predominating rules and ideology. Something about that article really rubbed me the wrong way. The interactions described by the writer in the article did not make me want to be a part of the community or scene he's involved with. I don't drink either so the gay bar scene isn't appealing to me anyway.

 

[arpeggi]

It doesn't attempt to describe the community as a whole. It's about misogyny in gay culture.

I'm not sure why arguing over labels would attempt to describe the community as a whole either.

These labels and how they are used have an impact. They can be useful, but maybe damaging to some, which is shown by the variety of posts so far. It's certainly worthy of discussing.

 

[bort138]

I understand the surface-level appeal of this type of position but I can assure you from a life as a mixed-race person, the world out there is "label or be labelled."

While the sort of situation may not come up as frequently for a gay white male, it's always useful to know what you're going to say when you get the question: "So, what are you?" And just as important as what you say is why, imo.

I have no problem with labels as long as they are useful. Labeling yourself with an umbrella term like "queer", which includes both sexual orientation and/or gender identity, doesn't say very much about you. To prefer a vague term instead of a more specific term seems counterproductive to labelling identities in the first place.

I also don't understand how gay and queer are viewed as being mutually exclusive. Why is there even a need to prefer one over the other if they are not at odds with eachother?

 

[dereperez]

I hardly hear any people using the word "queer" and when I do hear it, it does catch my attention and I do a mental double-take. I don't bat an eyelash in my mind's eye when I hear "gay", "lesbian" or any other sexuality term. I guess for me "queer" is a bit akin to "weird" or "strange" and to me it carries a weight of derogatory connotations, even if is used in more celebratory situations in some areas.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I have no problem with labels as long as they are useful. Labeling yourself with an umbrella term like "queer", which includes both sexual orientation and/or gender identity, doesn't say very much about you. To prefer a vague term instead of a more specific term seems counterproductive to labelling identities in the first place.

I agree with you. I don't go up to people and say "Hi, I'm LGBT." That would be a near meaningless label for me.

I also don't understand how gay and queer are viewed as being mutually exclusive. Why is there even a need to prefer one over the other if they are not at odds with eachother?

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Then again, human and African-American aren't mutually exclusive, either. As I said in my other post, I do not know if there really "is" any meaningful difference, all I can go by are my own personal experiences as far as the differences between which groups and individuals tended to strongly prefer queer to anything else. I'm fully aware those experiences would not speak for or represent everyone, in fact, I didn't even know at the time I posted it if anyone would have had even a remotely similar experience, though apparently East and to some degree Deja both have. There is not, per se, a "need" to make a separation. But my strong preference for self-label is gay rather than queer, because of the experiences I've had. I also feel queer has a marked negative connotation amongst anyone who isn't LGBT. I would feel every bit as awkward saying "I'm queer" as I would saying "I'm half Jap."

 

[Rex]

I've never heard of anyone identifying as queer. The word is mostly used as a derogatory term.

 

[pat grimshaw]

I prefer to identify as queer because it's less confining. If I identify as either bi or gay (let alone pansexual, which is probably more accurate for me than either of the other terms), I have people coming at me from all directions questioning my self-identification (c.f. grimshaw, pat). Queerness gives me wiggle room.

We saw you wriggling —along with all those others wrigglers— in that thread.

 

[xbuzzerx]

We saw you wriggling —along with all those others wrigglers— in that thread.

Since I have never seen you once in my entire time on JUB ever identify your sexual orientation verbally, it was rather nervy of you to demand answers from everyone in that thread.

 

[TickTockMan]

I identify as queer, bi and/or pansexual for those that I think will get the term. Usually I just say I am queer or pansexual though.

 

[cgymike]

Ah yes...the "bi's" chime in. Soooo predictable and absolute rubbish. Everyone knows my position on this of course.

 

[Agent Provocateur]

It's a sad day when "cis" is used on one of my favourite forums in earnest.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

I have to say, the article really made a lot of sense to me and what I have been seeing for the past year and a bit. The gay bar scene is massively offensive towards women, and thinks they can get away with it. I am writing my thesis currently on research I done on gay men in sports, and the levels of misogyny that came out of these guys mouths when women came up really shocked me. They truly felt they could get away with it because they did not want to be with a women.
Anyway that is when I moved away from the gay scene towards the queer scene. Its not a huge shift, but what it gives you is an actually community of all different types of people and for once women are not banned, trans are not banned, femmes are not abused. Its great.
I get the split between the more radical politics of gay/queer, but this comes more out of the fact that gay politics is not intersectional most of the time whereas queer politics has to fight for a lot more. To do this and take space it has to become more radical.
Onto the queer as a slur - I get that a word can hold a lot of power, but to create a term that took all non-hetro cis people in we needed to take advantage of this position. Gay was an insult for a long time before it came back round to being positive, just all of us are too young to have heard it used in that way. For me growing up queer was never an insult, and I really don't think it ever has been much of one in the UK. You might hear it now and again, but gay was almost insult enough without having to add more to the lexicon.

 

[Agent Provocateur]

^Oh for fuck's sakes, fuck off back to Tumblr.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

^Oh for fuck's sakes, fuck off back to Tumblr.

Ah I have missed this type of response of late

 

[cgymike]

BC Lions suck and can't fucks aka Cannucks even worse.POS teams.....typical BC...rofl...

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Gay is a word society came up with to label homosexuals, and now it's a common usage. Queer meant "strange" before it ever was labeled on homosexuals. I use the word "gay" though to identify with other homosexuals and I use "queer" to describe the angry, self-loathing, selfish, vain, passive-aggressive ones who are ungrateful and unpleasant to deal with.

I am sorry you have dealt with shits in the past, I have never found this at all. Everyone I know in the queer seen are lovely, caring people, who are more interested in getting know each other and building a support network than I have ever known elsewhere.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

It's a sad day when "cis" is used on one of my favourite forums in earnest.

What would you rather be used?

 

[eastofeden]

I have to say, the article really made a lot of sense to me and what I have been seeing for the past year and a bit. The gay bar scene is massively offensive towards women, and thinks they can get away with it. I am writing my thesis currently on research I done on gay men in sports, and the levels of misogyny that came out of these guys mouths when women came up really shocked me. They truly felt they could get away with it because they did not want to be with a women.
Anyway that is when I moved away from the gay scene towards the queer scene. Its not a huge shift, but what it gives you is an actually community of all different types of people and for once women are not banned, trans are not banned, femmes are not abused. Its great.
I get the split between the more radical politics of gay/queer, but this comes more out of the fact that gay politics is not intersectional most of the time whereas queer politics has to fight for a lot more. To do this and take space it has to become more radical.
Onto the queer as a slur - I get that a word can hold a lot of power, but to create a term that took all non-hetro cis people in we needed to take advantage of this position. Gay was an insult for a long time before it came back round to being positive, just all of us are too young to have heard it used in that way. For me growing up queer was never an insult, and I really don't think it ever has been much of one in the UK. You might hear it now and again, but gay was almost insult enough without having to add more to the lexicon.

Interesting...I never really understood what the difference was but I definitely agree with the misogyny...I know this is definitely true because I heard it all the time when I was behind the bar in a gay nightclub. It was weird for me because I happen to really like lesbians... in general ...a lot. I also noticed a lot of the lesbian haters that had misogynist POV LOVED what are referred to as "fag hags" but I also noticed for the most part "fag hags" were also misogynist so there was a bond. I never really liked the fag hags too much...they were OK ...at a healthy distance. It wasn't because they were women but I like women who like other women...

I am not a fan of the man hating woman either...any more than I am a fan of the woman hating man...

I still wouldn't want to be labeled "queer" but it is nice to get a perspective on why some people do.

 

[ParisZ]

This only goes to show how much gay's are socially behind in terms of actually excepting themselves. I mean, they don't even know how to properly identify themselves. Personally, same shit, different name. People tend to categories way too much. Within the black community you're considered BLACK regardless of your skin tone, it's as simple as that? African American, niggah, black, etc. It's all the same. The same goes with terms like; gay, queer, homosexual, it's all in the same category and has the same exact meaning.